Many props to the mods. I've returned after wandering into the cesspool of a certain lakers' blog that shall not be named. The ridiculous Lin flame wars are amazing there. The mods here have done a superb job keeping things pretty even keel here, even with some pretty crazy takes both ways.
I've been there......and there are some familiar names as well who post over there. Also some of them hope for injury to #24 which is pretty sad, considering they are teammates.
Those are a bunch of numbers. It doesn't deal with real-world situations of the circumstances around them.
Actually, those numbers show his real life production in real life situations. If's and but's are not real life situations. Maybe he would prodcue better with different teammates, a different system, or a different coach. Maybe he wouldn't. Any player....hell, any person....can talk about if's. At the end of the day what matters is what you actually produce and his production has been fairly consistent for what is going on a 4th season now....average PG play.
bws94 wrote:
I think he's a developing player who isn't that far along in his career.
Agreed. There is always room for improvement. My point was I haven't seen too many expecting superstar numbers form him outside of his die-hard fanbase, and so far he has prioduced like an average player.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
Image if Dragic gets benched after he is traded to Houston (again). The situation of playing with another ball-dominant type guard has not been helping in the history of the league. Look, Collison and IT weren't starting in certain teams but that doesn't mean they are not starting-caliber NBA pgs.
AN HISTORIC basketball game was played on January 8 in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts. Harvard beat Boston College, ranked seventeenth in the nation, 82-70, recording its first-ever win over a nationally ranked opponent. What is more, BC had just defeated the University of North Carolina, then the nation’s top team. (Harvard’s last game against such elite competition, with twenty-third-ranked Stanford, was a 111-56 blowout, the opener of 2007-08’s struggling 8-22 season, when the Crimson tied with Princeton and Dartmouth for last in the Ivies.)
That January night, shooting guard Jeremy Lin ’10 put on a magic show, throwing in 27 points and making eight assists and six steals. On defense, he held BC’s all-American guard (and projected NBA draft pick) Tyrese Rice, who had scorched UNC for 25 points, scoreless in the first half. When Lin finally fouled out with 40 seconds left, there were none of the mocking chants one often hears in college gyms at such moments; instead, the crowd made the air alive with applause. “That game was something I’ll never forget, an emotional high,” says Lin. “It was something our players and coaches deserve—we’ve all worked very hard. We earned it.”
In mid January, when Harvard was 9-6 (1-0 Ivy), Lin was the only college basketball player in the United States who ranked among the top 10 players of his conference in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, field-goal percentage, free-throw percentage, and three-point percentage. That pretty much covers the game of basketball: it’s an extraordinary display of versatility. Lin was averaging 17.9 points and 5.5 rebounds per game, while hitting field goals at a .500 clip, free throws at .802, and three-pointers at .424. Characteristically, he credits his teammates for those high-flying stats. Regarding steals, for example (last year he led the Ivies with 58), Lin notes, “When other guys on the floor are doing a good job defending, that can force a bad pass, and I can grab the ball.”
“I’m trying to do whatever the team needs me to do in that particular game,” Lin explains. “A lot of the time, it’s not going to be scoring, even though that’s what’s most valued when people talk about a game. Sometimes it’s going to be rebounding or passing. It’s a credit to the other guys on our team that I don’t have to be scoring every game: we have several players who can score.”
“I haven’t coached anyone I would regard higher [than Lin],” says Tommy Amaker, who coached 19 years at Duke, Seton Hall, and Michigan before arriving at Harvard’s helm in 2007. “Jeremy is a hard worker, a passionate ball player, a student of the game who loves the game. He’s an unselfish young man, sometimes to a fault. Jeremy’s a complete player, a throwback to the days of yesteryear. He could play basketball in any era. I love coaching him; it’s great to have a player you sometimes have to ask to slow down, instead of ‘Please, take it up a notch.’”
The six-foot, three-inch Lin built his game amid a hoop-playing family. Both parents are Taiwanese immigrants and computer engineers who eventually settled in Palo Alto, California. His father, Gie-Ming, had never heard of the sport when he arrived in the United States in 1977, but soon became a basketball junkie. Though only five feet six, he plays recreationally and collects basketball DVDs. Lin’s mother, Shirley, fell in love with the game as her sons did, and is now a major fan. Older brother Joshua played for Henry M. Gunn High School in Palo Alto; Jeremy played for the rival Palo Alto High School, where his younger brother Joseph is on the team now. “Anyplace we could find a hoop and a ball, we would play,” Lin says. After their Friday-night youth group at the Chinese Church of Christ, for example, the Lin brethren would adjourn to a gym at Stanford for some pick-up games that might last until 2:00 a.m. Lin came to Harvard—not Stanford, Cal, or UCLA—in part because he wanted to play college basketball. Now Amaker feels Lin is skilled enough to have a career after college if he wants one. (Lin admits that playing in the NBA would be “a dream come true”—his youthful idol was Michael Jordan—but the economics concentrator considers pro ball a long shot. He aspires to work for a church (and serving an underprivileged urban community.)
But for now there is the holy grail of Harvard basketball—an Ivy League championship—which the Crimson has yet to bag. Last year Cornell ran the table at 14-0 and graduated no starters; in preseason polls, Harvard wasn’t picked to finish higher than third. On the other hand, before this season, Harvard had never beaten a team like Boston College.
Wish there is a link for this game but afraid not.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
I agree with you. Lin is a good player with great potential. He could be a great player if he becomes mentally stronger.
And, the coach he has now does not help.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
I agree with you. Lin is a good player with great potential. He could be a great player if he becomes mentally stronger.
And, the coach he has now does not help.
I think dealing with B.Scott would actually help Lin's Growth. The tougher the situation, the stronger Lin will come out of it. It's just part of growing process. Lin is who he is. If he is truly a diamond, he will shine like a diamond one day, no matter how many people step on it.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
I agree with you. Lin is a good player with great potential. He could be a great player if he becomes mentally stronger.
And, the coach he has now does not help.
I think dealing with B.Scott would actually help Lin's Growth. The tougher the situation, the stronger Lin will come out of it. It's just part of growing process. Lin is who he is. If he is truly a diamond, he will shine like a diamond one day, no matter how many people step on it.
I have to disagree. He's been through this "rising above adversity" thing many times before, and I think he's tired of it.
IMO, Lin is not so much a diamond in the rough anymore. He's shown what he can do but is not a good fit on certain teams with ball-dominant guards. He's in his 4th or 5th year in the league, in his prime, getting paid starting PG salary and is at the stage in his career where he should be settled into a comfortable role. He's not. I'm sure he doesn't want to be a journeyman his entire career, hopping from one team to another either. I don't think he's an all-star player or anything yet but he can be a starter especially on this team.
Now that the Price/Kobe experiment has proven to be a fail, there's no reason for him to not be a starter on this team again. The starting unit has become the worst in the league while the bench is the best. There's way too much disparity between the 2 and this is all because Byron Scott tried too hard to satisfy Kobe with complete opposite results. Kobe has to work extra hard for his shots now because the opposing team does not respect anybody else.
Last edited by 13th Man on Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Those are a bunch of numbers. It doesn't deal with real-world situations of the circumstances around them.
Actually, those numbers show his real life production in real life situations. If's and but's are not real life situations. Maybe he would prodcue better with different teammates, a different system, or a different coach. Maybe he wouldn't. Any player....hell, any person....can talk about if's. At the end of the day what matters is what you actually produce and his production has been fairly consistent for what is going on a 4th season now....average PG play.
bws94 wrote:
I think he's a developing player who isn't that far along in his career.
Agreed. There is always room for improvement. My point was I haven't seen too many expecting superstar numbers form him outside of his die-hard fanbase, and so far he has prioduced like an average player.
We aren't hear to talk about Lin's fanbase. That isn't tolerated here. We are here to talk about practical things and there are numbers and there are situations beyond numbers. The numbers don't tell the whole story. What circumstances lead to players doing well, as Lin has done, and not only well but phenomenally well, and what happened to his edge? Why did Lowry do better without Rudy Gay, and much better? What happened to Dragic this season vs. last season? What is it about one person's playing style that works in a variety of systems vs. others? I'm telling you, your numbers approach bores me. I'm looking at factors that will get the best out of Lin for the Lakers, that's the team his is on and why hasn't he done better. And that's true of other players I think who could do better such as Wes Johnson or Ellington.
Lin has some elite skills. He is faster than most players in a straight line anyway, he has a variety of ways he can finish at the rim. He has some sub-par skills like his ball handling and some one-on-one moves and his lateral foot speed on defense. I'm not into calling him or dismissing him as anything this early in his development based solely on numbers. I'm more interested in getting out the best Lin and seeing how he does. Byron is not getting out the best Lin and neither could McHale a lot of the time. D'Antoni may have but Lin was an unknown at the time, but still he got his confidence in himself out. Will another coach do so? It remains to be seen. So the real Lin remains to be seen in my view.
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7916 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject:
bws94 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
bws94 wrote:
Those are a bunch of numbers. It doesn't deal with real-world situations of the circumstances around them.
Actually, those numbers show his real life production in real life situations. If's and but's are not real life situations. Maybe he would prodcue better with different teammates, a different system, or a different coach. Maybe he wouldn't. Any player....hell, any person....can talk about if's. At the end of the day what matters is what you actually produce and his production has been fairly consistent for what is going on a 4th season now....average PG play.
bws94 wrote:
I think he's a developing player who isn't that far along in his career.
Agreed. There is always room for improvement. My point was I haven't seen too many expecting superstar numbers form him outside of his die-hard fanbase, and so far he has prioduced like an average player.
We aren't hear to talk about Lin's fanbase. That isn't tolerated here. We are here to talk about practical things and there are numbers and there are situations beyond numbers. The numbers don't tell the whole story. What circumstances lead to players doing well, as Lin has done, and not only well but phenomenally well, and what happened to his edge? Why did Lowry do better without Rudy Gay, and much better? What happened to Dragic this season vs. last season? What is it about one person's playing style that works in a variety of systems vs. others? I'm telling you, your numbers approach bores me. I'm looking at factors that will get the best out of Lin for the Lakers, that's the team his is on and why hasn't he done better. And that's true of other players I think who could do better such as Wes Johnson or Ellington.
Lin has some elite skills. He is faster than most players in a straight line anyway, he has a variety of ways he can finish at the rim. He has some sub-par skills like his ball handling and some one-on-one moves and his lateral foot speed on defense. I'm not into calling him or dismissing him as anything this early in his development based solely on numbers. I'm more interested in getting out the best Lin and seeing how he does. Byron is not getting out the best Lin and neither could McHale a lot of the time. D'Antoni may have but Lin was an unknown at the time, but still he got his confidence in himself out. Will another coach do so? It remains to be seen. So the real Lin remains to be seen in my view.
Lin is like Lamar Odom - a force multiplier more than an individual contributor. With quality around him, he can get others above average looks. But in a Donut team with 1 shooter like this team, anything he does is going to generate mid-range shots for either himself or the guy the defense has picked out to be left open.
Scorers thrive on crap teams. Facilitators have nothing to work with on crap teams. Especially without the ball in their hands.
Lin is like Lamar Odom - a force multiplier more than an individual contributor. With quality around him, he can get others above average looks. But in a Donut team with 1 shooter like this team, anything he does is going to generate mid-range shots for either himself or the guy the defense has picked out to be left open.
Scorers thrive on crap teams. Facilitators have nothing to work with on crap teams. Especially without the ball in their hands.
Agreed. Except that I think that even crap teams can look decent if a "force multiplier" is allowed to play his game.
These are still all NBA level players (well... kinda). They are all capable of playing good basketball; especially if someone is allowed to set things up for them so that they can focus on their strengths.
Byron Scott laughing at Jeremy Lin as he calls for Price to replace him after he travels
He called Ed to replace someone actually. But indeed I believe that BS was laughing at Lin. He definitely is not fan of Lin's game.
Some of you guys are too much.
Seriously. Seems like there's always a conspiracy doesn't it?
A conspiracy would require multiple people conspiring.
More of idiocracy on part of Byron Scott. He is still figuring out Kobe minutes after 27 games. Lakers paying Lin 8 mil to sit on the bench for 30 mins.
There are several holes in Lin game as dribbling and playing slow tempo. He will still contribute more than Price though.
Why not just play Lin, Young, and Davis together in the first unit for 35 mins.
Cus no one except for a few lin fans want to see that lineup, they bought tickets to see kobe. The only real issue here is which starting lineup takes the most load off kobe so his career isn't ended this season with another injury.. It is what it is.
Why not just play Lin, Young, and Davis together in the first unit for 35 mins.
Cus no one except for a few lin fans want to see that lineup, they bought tickets to see kobe. The only real issue here is which starting lineup takes the most load off kobe so his career isn't ended this season with another injury.. It is what it is.
I guess you have not been to a Lakers game recently?
Why not just play Lin, Young, and Davis together in the first unit for 35 mins.
Cus no one except for a few lin fans want to see that lineup, they bought tickets to see kobe. The only real issue here is which starting lineup takes the most load off kobe so his career isn't ended this season with another injury.. It is what it is.
Byron Scott laughing at Jeremy Lin as he calls for Price to replace him after he travels
He called Ed to replace someone actually. But indeed I believe that BS was laughing at Lin. He definitely is not fan of Lin's game.
yup, it's ridiculous how BS treats Lin. he never argues on Lin's behalf on bogus ref calls and he laughs when Lin tries to argue it to the refs. the team is full of selfish players and Lin is the only player who sacrifices his game for the team yet he's the one taking the hardest hit
I don't hope any player gets injured, but the reality is any 36 player coming off major injury, and asked to play 36 min per game, practice with teammates will get hurt. When you're complaining of fatigue, it's a sure sign that something ain't right. Scott has to sit the player since the player is not the type to sit himself. He is hurting himself, his team mates and the team overall. No one will fault Kobe for playing fewer minutes. The idiocracy is thinking Kobe's body can defy father time and recovery rates.
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