Mamba vs Swaggy P
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Lakerpark
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Mamba vs Swaggy P

Happy Holidays All!

First of all, don't take this topic too seriously...If you feel compelled to attack, please don't.

While watching the Lakers this season and seeing the friendly rivalry that Kobe and Nick Young have developed, I couldn't help making a comparison between the two.

I do not mean to be blasphemous and realize that Kobe is an all-World, one of the GOAT, future HOF, but we all have to admit Kobe is just not the Kobe of old.

Swaggy, IMHO, has been playing well. Of course we all know he has never won a championship and I assume has never been in the All Star game, but he provides instant offense and a nice spark to the team. His happy go lucky demeanor is a much needed pick me up in this totally depressing season. Many of you continue to harp on Nick for past performances (previous teams) but I think he has been playing well, all things considered.

Sure Kobe has been scoring 25+ points per game, but he has been shooting like 30% while continuing to force up difficult shots rather than trying to find the open man. Granted once in a while he goes into 3D (triple double) mode, but that is not often enough and also there may not be enough offensive talent surrounding him in the starting Unit (Davis, Hill, Johnson, Price). His end of the game iso/Hero ball is becoming the Lakers poison pill as he seemingly can no longer will the ball into the basket like he used to. Shooting 20+ shots per game at a 30% clip probably is not good for the team. Plus he's become more turnover prone. It's kind of sad to see Kobe slipping, stumbling and falling on the court on some of his attempted moves....I don't recall seeing him fumble so much before. But hey, he has won 5 Championships.

I remember a long time ago when rookie Nick Young played for the Wizards, one of his veteran teammates was quoted as saying Nick was so talented he could be as good as Kobe....something like that. Well, we all know he isn't but he is a pretty darn good scorer. He can get his own shot off under pressure and can hit the 3 ball. Also he seems to not be afraid of pressure situations. Nick has been putting up good numbers this year, leading the bench in scoring once again.

So my comparisons follow:

1. Both are about 6'6 - 6'7
2. Both are scorers who can get their own shots off
3. People say Nick doesn't play defense....but I hear Kobe doesn't either (anymore)
4. Both are kind of "look for the shot first" guys
5. Nick does not have championship experience but the way Kobe is currently playing does it matter if he continues to shoot 25+ times a game and makes only 30% of his shots also while making a lot of turnovers.
6. Nick seems like a better shooter at this point in time and if Nick got 25+ shots a game imagine what his stats would be like?

So my question is: Would the Lakers be better off focusing their offense around Nick Young rather than Kobe? (I know they would never do this....this is just for conversation sake only)


It almost feels like the "Captain going down with his ship" scenario. The Lakers want to support Kobe no matter what and are willing to go down with the ship.

My opinion is I would rather see the Lakers highlight Swaggy more than Kobe (it might be more exciting and they couldn't do much worse), but I realize it would never happen. Kobe's ego would never allow it.

Let's discuss....please leave your rudeness and sarcasm elsewhere...let's share the holiday spirit!

Thanks
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject:

From an efficacy standpoint 25 shots from Swaggy are probably more effective. But Old School rules don't or won't allow for it since Swaggy hasn't "earned it..."
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject:

Swaggy P isn't a player you build around. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a type of system the Lakers play in so guys look lost. I think that is more important.
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Vin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject:

It's kind of ridiculous that we're at that stage where we're comparing Kobe to Nick (bleep) Young.

Damn.
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tyusedney1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject:

well, Nick scored more on half the shots and zero TO's..
Nick 7/14 26pts 0TO
Kobe 8/30 25pts 9TO
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject:

zePokar wrote:
It's kind of ridiculous that we're at that stage where we're comparing Kobe to Nick (bleep) Young.

Damn.


It is. But it's choosing the best option between two sub-optimal ones. If Swaggy had the same green light to shoot nearly 24 shots a gama, he is probably averaging high 20s (inefficient but still high in terms of raw scoring).

Kobe's heavy load is clearly wearing him down. Let Swaggy take some shots (6-8 shots) from Kobe to lessen the load. Let him take the 5-6 minutes to get Kobe down to about 30 mpg too.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject:

Why let Swaggy take the shots when the shots need to be distributed more around the team?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Why let Swaggy take the shots when the shots need to be distributed more around the team?


I think it's an illustrative point. If you had them both take 25 shots who is putting up a more efficient and/or raw statisics? I think at this point from a scoring standpoint it may be Swaggy.
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Lakerpark
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Why let Swaggy take the shots when the shots need to be distributed more around the team?


I'd actually like to see Ellington get more shots....the guys who can make their shots should get their number called more often. (but I know there is a pecking order)

NO shots for Price, less shots for Kobe unless he starts taking just open shots with only one defender on him.

But if I had to choose someone to shoot the ball, I would want Swaggy.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
zePokar wrote:
It's kind of ridiculous that we're at that stage where we're comparing Kobe to Nick (bleep) Young.

Damn.


It is. But it's choosing the best option between two sub-optimal ones. If Swaggy had the same green light to shoot nearly 24 shots a gama, he is probably averaging high 20s (inefficient but still high in terms of raw scoring).

Kobe's heavy load is clearly wearing him down. Let Swaggy take some shots (6-8 shots) from Kobe to lessen the load. Let him take the 5-6 minutes to get Kobe down to about 30 mpg too.



Maybe now. But I'm looking at him the past couple of games and definitely feeling that he is going to get his legs back under him. He needs to keep doing what he's doing, good things will happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
zePokar wrote:
It's kind of ridiculous that we're at that stage where we're comparing Kobe to Nick (bleep) Young.

Damn.


It is. But it's choosing the best option between two sub-optimal ones. If Swaggy had the same green light to shoot nearly 24 shots a gama, he is probably averaging high 20s (inefficient but still high in terms of raw scoring).

Kobe's heavy load is clearly wearing him down. Let Swaggy take some shots (6-8 shots) from Kobe to lessen the load. Let him take the 5-6 minutes to get Kobe down to about 30 mpg too.



Maybe now. But I'm looking at him the past couple of games and definitely feeling that he is going to get his legs back under him. He needs to keep doing what he's doing, good things will happen.


Looks unlikely. I get the "rust' angle but it's not like he's gently easing into it. He's playing high 30 minutes the past 10-15 games.

Guys tend to get worn down as the season progresses, let alone 36 year old players. I remember hearing from Mychal Thompson that he would lose 10 pounds a season from the wear/tear. I know Kobe is the most dedicated/maniacal hard worker, but you just don't have the same amount of time/energy on the road and during game days to get his legs conditioned.

I hope towards the end of the season they help shut things down, reduce the minutes and preserve him for one more run in 2015.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject:

Swaggy's four point play is seriously the most efficient shot in basketball.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject:

I never thought things could get this bad.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject:

options for the lakers should be:

1. swaggy p
2. Jordan hill
3. kobe

kobe better learn it soon he is an option 3. Look at the mavs....dirk is down on the list of options...ellis is first.

tim Duncan... down the list of options......kawhi is first. if kobe doesn't know it....Byron needs to tell him.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject:

Time to retire when you're being compared to a scrub like Nick Young.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
options for the lakers should be:

1. swaggy p
2. Jordan hill
3. kobe

kobe better learn it soon he is an option 3. Look at the mavs....dirk is down on the list of options...ellis is first.

tim Duncan... down the list of options......kawhi is first. if kobe doesn't know it....Byron needs to tell him.


Jordan Hill?

If we're talking about a modern basketball offense, a screen roll attacking the basket is the first option, the weak side 3 is the second and the extra pass is the third. Having individual players as 1st (and usually only) options is part of the reason the offense looks so ugly.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Swaggy's four point play is seriously the most efficient shot in basketball.


The PPP on that shot is YOLO.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject:

Well, I suppose the numbers speak for themselves. But I agree with Mike. We should be running the offense as it was intended. Moving the ball around. Unfortunately, with either Kobe or Swaggy on the court most of the time we have been locked in to mostly ISO ball...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject:

Lakers#1Team wrote:
Well, I suppose the numbers speak for themselves. But I agree with Mike. We should be running the offense as it was intended. Moving the ball around. Unfortunately, with either Kobe or Swaggy on the court most of the time we have been locked in to mostly ISO ball...


I don't know if this is accurate, but it seems to me the difference between Kobe and Nick is that with Kobe the offense starts with him and then he isos, but with Swaggy, the ball moves around a little and then ends with him isoing.
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Lakerpark
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Time to retire when you're being compared to a scrub like Nick Young.


If you call Nick Young a Scrub, what do you call guys like Ronnie Price, Darius Morris, Adam Morrison, etc?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
options for the lakers should be:

1. swaggy p
2. Jordan hill
3. kobe

kobe better learn it soon he is an option 3. Look at the mavs....dirk is down on the list of options...ellis is first.

tim Duncan... down the list of options......kawhi is first. if kobe doesn't know it....Byron needs to tell him.


Actually, Duncan has a higher usage rate than any other Spurs starter. Very slightly higher than Parker's but lower than Manu's off the bench. All three have higher usage rates than Kawhi's.

But I totally agree that Kobe needs to shoot much, much less.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject:

Lakerpark wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Time to retire when you're being compared to a scrub like Nick Young.


If you call Nick Young a Scrub, what do you call guys like Ronnie Price, Darius Morris, Adam Morrison, etc?


Sorry but Young while skilled offensively (debatable) is pretty much an irrelevant player in the NBA. He's entertaining but that's about it.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject:

Lakerpark wrote:
Lakers#1Team wrote:
Well, I suppose the numbers speak for themselves. But I agree with Mike. We should be running the offense as it was intended. Moving the ball around. Unfortunately, with either Kobe or Swaggy on the court most of the time we have been locked in to mostly ISO ball...


I don't know if this is accurate, but it seems to me the difference between Kobe and Nick is that with Kobe the offense starts with him and then he isos, but with Swaggy, the ball moves around a little and then ends with him isoing.


That's probably the case. In Kobe's defense, it seems like the players around him defer to Kobe more than he is demanding. If Swaggy received the ball as early in the shot clock as Kobe I doubt it moves around anymore.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject:

While we're at it, let's start a Nick Young "Best overall talent" thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Why let Swaggy take the shots when the shots need to be distributed more around the team?


The voice of reason as usual.
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