I don't think the injury nullifies the "done" issue, I think it strengthens it.
Yeah. Instead of hoping for a 3rd season that he would return "healthy and strong" just appreciate whatever he can give in his last season. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 971 Location: Paisley Park
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject:
Come on, man. No one is talking about shooting in general. Kobe wasn't fatigued. How many games did he "start out" shooting 1-8 or 2-9, etc? 1st Q stats. How is that fatigue or old age. Kobe didn't forget how to shoot. He was shooting from too far out for sure, playing a ton of minutes, but in my mind, I think that shoulder played a HUGE part in his %. Kobe isn't that damn bad. Come on, now? Those who are saying that are really just hating. _________________ "For we look not at the things that are seen but at the things that are unseen. For the things seen are temporary and the things unseen are eternal"
That he suffered a shoulder injury that limited his game to the point where one could claim he's "done" coupled with the fact that he suffered his third straight season-ending injury is proof that his body can no longer hold up to a full NBA season playing at a high level. Essentially meaning he's done. I don't know how one can spin a 36 going on 37 year old player suffering an injury that puts you on the shelf for 9 months as not done. At this point, anything Kobe gives us next season, for however long he can, is a bonus. It's all gravy.
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's Shooting %
activeverb wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Vandal08 wrote:
Now that it was revealed that Bryant had been nursing his shoulder injury since training camp, how do all the people feel who trashed the guy as "done" because his shooting percentage was so low? .
Didn't most people already think his shooting performance was due to injuries and age? I'm a little puzzled why you think people's opinion on whether or not Kobe is "done" would be improved by finding out he has yet another season-ending injury.
Not surprised that you are puzzled. People were assuming that the low shooting percentage was due to fatigue, not being able to handle the minutes, lost lift and age.
Those are permanent things that would not expect to improve. A torn rotator cuff is a different issue entirely.
But, as per usual, I'm sure you're still confused.
I'll overlook the last line, though whether the moderators will is up to them.
In any case, I think you're wrong. I think some people were hoping it was just fatigue, particularly Kobe supporters, since that obviously is the easiest thing to fix.
However, I think most people thought his performance was due to age and injury, namely the lingering affect of his achilles surgery. And personally, I think that was a significant factor. I think the shoulder injury was another factor. How much each of these things played into the whole is anyone's guess.
Dude he owned you with his reply😜 seriously though "I think your still confused" one things is clear you're exactly the fan OP is talking about. _________________ Winning is all that matters!!
Come on, man. No one is talking about shooting in general. Kobe wasn't fatigued. How many games did he "start out" shooting 1-8 or 2-9, etc? 1st Q stats. How is that fatigue or old age. Kobe didn't forget how to shoot. He was shooting from too far out for sure, playing a ton of minutes, but in my mind, I think that shoulder played a HUGE part in his %. Kobe isn't that damn bad. Come on, now? Those who are saying that are really just hating.
Bingo!! _________________ Winning is all that matters!!
I practically blame Byron's iso-iso system on Kobe's shooting percentage. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
It's admirable that kobe runs through walls to get back from injuries.
But 3 consecutive season ending injuries means the show is coming to an end. Instead of expecting kobe to be a top 10 player next year my hope is he plays as many games as possible. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Come on, man. No one is talking about shooting in general. Kobe wasn't fatigued. How many games did he "start out" shooting 1-8 or 2-9, etc? 1st Q stats. How is that fatigue or old age. Kobe didn't forget how to shoot. He was shooting from too far out for sure, playing a ton of minutes, but in my mind, I think that shoulder played a HUGE part in his %. Kobe isn't that damn bad. Come on, now? Those who are saying that are really just hating.
no but he wasn't playing smart. if you're 1-8 or 2-9 shooting long 2's, logic would dictate you take it to the basket, try to get easy baskets, or get to the foul line. kobe settled for the tough shot.
and if his shoulder was bothering him and he was shooting badly then he shouldn't have wanted to be the one taking 25 shots nor should be facilitating where he could aggravate this injury even more so.
he isn't that bad regarding shooting but he should have played better overall which he did not.
Come on, man. No one is talking about shooting in general. Kobe wasn't fatigued. How many games did he "start out" shooting 1-8 or 2-9, etc? 1st Q stats. How is that fatigue or old age. Kobe didn't forget how to shoot. He was shooting from too far out for sure, playing a ton of minutes, but in my mind, I think that shoulder played a HUGE part in his %. Kobe isn't that damn bad. Come on, now? Those who are saying that are really just hating.
He shot 40% in 1st quarters, 36-37% in the 2nd and 3rd, and 33% in the 4th. That is a pretty clear decline.
If this was all because of a shoulder injury then it should have been diagnosed and treated a long time ago. I dont recall anyone here commenting on how bad his shoulder looked this year. Apparently no one saw a difference. How many times did you see him try to take his man one on one and not being able to get by him? How many times did you see him end up taking a wild fadeaway because he wasn't able to get to one of his sweet spots? His biggest drop offs in percentage were in the shots from 0-15 feet. He wasn't getting nearly as many of those shots as he usually does and when he did get them, he shot a lot worse than usual because he was rarely getting separation.
He was off for almost 2 seasons and had 2 serious injuries since we last saw him. When he took better shots and didnt force things, his shooting percentage was just fine. It eroded because he spent too much of the season trying to be like his 2006 self and his body didn't cooperate with that.
I thought his shooting percentage was due to his legs. Being tired late in games as well as not having the quickness to beat defenders for easier shots.
I thought it was because he didn't trust his teammates and would go 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 all the time. He's too old to consistently do that like he used to.
Joined: 19 Jul 2002 Posts: 15403 Location: Oak Park
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:29 am Post subject:
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Kobe should be playing less PG and closer to basket ala MJ in Chicago late in his career. The whole let's make Kobe a lead guard in this offense was a huge mistake by Scott. So was just Kobe at the start of the season where he was in shoot everything mode. Most of those shots were long 2s and 3s not high percentage looks. Instead of working the ball to Bryant at positions where he would get higher percentage looks Scott tells him take same type of shots just less and play more PG.
It's one thing to play an offense where you share the duties and it's not really about holding the rock for ages - it's another thing when you want a player to do that in a more traditional offense.
Bryant is best served staying away from the 3 ball, and playing midrange and in. He would see his shooting percentage climb quite a bit imo. I doubt anything changes next year as Scott will still be coaching. Scott and Bryant need to realize they are best served playing him more like an old school SF ala Worthy - than what we saw this season which was first a very perimeter oriented Kobe over shooting and then a passive PG version that shot too little.
This is how old happens. Kobe wanting to get out while he is still playing at a high level is like a gambler wanting to get back to breakeven before he quits for good. Sounds reasonable but it doesn't usually work out well.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Kobe should be playing less PG and closer to basket ala MJ in Chicago late in his career. The whole let's make Kobe a lead guard in this offense was a huge mistake by Scott. So was just Kobe at the start of the season where he was in shoot everything mode. Most of those shots were long 2s and 3s not high percentage looks. Instead of working the ball to Bryant at positions where he would get higher percentage looks Scott tells him take same type of shots just less and play more PG.
It's one thing to play an offense where you share the duties and it's not really about holding the rock for ages - it's another thing when you want a player to do that in a more traditional offense.
Bryant is best served staying away from the 3 ball, and playing midrange and in. He would see his shooting percentage climb quite a bit imo. I doubt anything changes next year as Scott will still be coaching. Scott and Bryant need to realize they are best served playing him more like an old school SF ala Worthy - than what we saw this season which was first a very perimeter oriented Kobe over shooting and then a passive PG version that shot too little.
Ideally you put in offensive sets that make him both a post up threat and a PnR threat:
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
If he had some help and didn't need to be the PG and SG, I think there's a chance his body holds up for one last season.
Come on, man. No one is talking about shooting in general. Kobe wasn't fatigued. How many games did he "start out" shooting 1-8 or 2-9, etc? 1st Q stats. How is that fatigue or old age. Kobe didn't forget how to shoot. He was shooting from too far out for sure, playing a ton of minutes, but in my mind, I think that shoulder played a HUGE part in his %. Kobe isn't that damn bad. Come on, now? Those who are saying that are really just hating.
Bingo!!
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
This is how old happens. Kobe wanting to get out while he is still playing at a high level is like a gambler wanting to get back to breakeven before he quits for good. Sounds reasonable but it doesn't usually work out well.
Worked for Superfly. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Gets it. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Kobe should be playing less PG and closer to basket ala MJ in Chicago late in his career. The whole let's make Kobe a lead guard in this offense was a huge mistake by Scott. So was just Kobe at the start of the season where he was in shoot everything mode. Most of those shots were long 2s and 3s not high percentage looks. Instead of working the ball to Bryant at positions where he would get higher percentage looks Scott tells him take same type of shots just less and play more PG.
It's one thing to play an offense where you share the duties and it's not really about holding the rock for ages - it's another thing when you want a player to do that in a more traditional offense.
Bryant is best served staying away from the 3 ball, and playing midrange and in. He would see his shooting percentage climb quite a bit imo. I doubt anything changes next year as Scott will still be coaching. Scott and Bryant need to realize they are best served playing him more like an old school SF ala Worthy - than what we saw this season which was first a very perimeter oriented Kobe over shooting and then a passive PG version that shot too little.
Yup. I was wondering this from the very beginning (preseason). Why not put him in the post more? Especially with guys like Boozer and even Hill that can space the floor a little more than a typical frontcourt. That would have saved his energy and given him higher percentage looks.
The fact his percentage declined shouldn't have been a huge surprise. It was a virtual guarantee. I knew it before I had even seem him play because this is what happens to every single victim of an achilles tear and then you add his mileage, lack of real on-court time coming in and age. Admittedly, his FG% fell beyond my projections but my projections assumed, to your point, that he would take a greater percentage of his shots from closer to the basket and then his outside jumper efficiency would be the culprit for an overall decline.
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Gets it.
I love Kobe for what he's done but I don't understand this admiration for not playing with superfriends. If management signs a super friend, that's okay. But if it doesn't, then you just suck it up? I'm all for loyalty but I understand the Lebron model, in which the player recognizes his own agency and subverts the ownership model to enfranchise players instead.
You're not going sign or draft a super friend? Fine, I'll leave and create my own team. This model may not be great for the fan but it makes sense for the player.
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Gets it.
I love Kobe for what he's done but I don't understand this admiration for not playing with superfriends. If management signs a super friend, that's okay. But if it doesn't, then you just suck it up? I'm all for loyalty but I understand the Lebron model, in which the player recognizes his own agency and subverts the ownership model to enfranchise players instead.
You're not going sign or draft a super friend? Fine, I'll leave and create my own team. This model may not be great for the fan but it makes sense for the player.
I'm fairly certain this is not how Kobe wanted to end his career. Being Tony Montana and dying a lonely death in his mansion. I just hope next season we can have a playoff-level team, but that's no given either. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Gets it.
I love Kobe for what he's done but I don't understand this admiration for not playing with superfriends. If management signs a super friend, that's okay. But if it doesn't, then you just suck it up? I'm all for loyalty but I understand the Lebron model, in which the player recognizes his own agency and subverts the ownership model to enfranchise players instead.
You're not going sign or draft a super friend? Fine, I'll leave and create my own team. This model may not be great for the fan but it makes sense for the player.
I'm fairly certain this is not how Kobe wanted to end his career. Being Tony Montana and dying a lonely death in his mansion. I just hope next season we can have a playoff-level team, but that's no given either.
He going to have a life post basketball and when all is said and done, he'll look not only at the sublime glory, but that he did it his way. How many of can say they did that without compromise? The cost may be going out like TM. Kobe has his big boy pants, he'll be fine. And given his career and personal arc; who he is, it makes perfect sense. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
I watch and support him not because he is going to dominate the league but because I continue to admire the way he has stuck to his guns, going down swinging till the end.
I know people malign his contract but I love the fact that he is one bad ass (bleep) who would rather lose his way than (bleep) out and play with super friends. It's noble in spirit and despite the fact that the guy is done I still love to see the tenacity with which he continues to play the game.
Gets it.
I love Kobe for what he's done but I don't understand this admiration for not playing with superfriends. If management signs a super friend, that's okay. But if it doesn't, then you just suck it up? I'm all for loyalty but I understand the Lebron model, in which the player recognizes his own agency and subverts the ownership model to enfranchise players instead.
You're not going sign or draft a super friend? Fine, I'll leave and create my own team. This model may not be great for the fan but it makes sense for the player.
I'm fairly certain this is not how Kobe wanted to end his career. Being Tony Montana and dying a lonely death in his mansion. I just hope next season we can have a playoff-level team, but that's no given either.
He going to have a life post basketball and when all is said and done, he'll look not only at the sublime glory, but that he did it his way. How many of can say they did that without compromise? The cost may be going out like TM. Kobe has his big boy pants, he'll be fine. And given his career and personal arc; who he is, it makes perfect sense.
Sure, but I don't buy the argument that he wanted it to be like this. The lone Tony Montana.
What was there to compromise? The FO was complicit in this and they are ultimately the ones who need to put a worthwhile team together. They failed dramatically in that respect, but here's to hoping they can patch a decent team together next year. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I thought his shooting percentage was due to his legs. Being tired late in games as well as not having the quickness to beat defenders for easier shots.
I thought it was because he didn't trust his teammates and would go 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 all the time. He's too old to consistently do that like he used to.
Yeah it used to work more often. The biggest difference I have seen is that he used to be able to give a quick headfake to get his defender in the air and he could draw the foul or drive by him. Nowadays they don't respect his first step and 5 pumpfakes later, his defender is still on top of him. Then he has to throw up an off balance fadeaway to beat the shot clock.
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