What if Kobe had gone to Wizards in 2003?
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ISOM
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


There are Kobe haters who actually believe what he said. I never assume that people are just trolling especially when it comes to Kobe. A lot of these people are really disconnected from reality or dumb and act like Kobe has never won any championships without shaq.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject:

He'd have 60 finals mvps by now

Yeah you read that right!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


There are Kobe haters who actually believe what he said. I never assume that people are just trolling especially when it comes to Kobe. A lot of these people are really disconnected from reality or dumb and act like Kobe has never won any championships without shaq.


Its not a coincidence that Kobe has won all his championships with a HOF center playing. Thats what Lakers build thier teams with a great center. Stop with the Kobe worship and think about (bleep) Laker legacy. Its why I want these freaking Lakers to draft a blue chip center, so maybe we can get on to the next era
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:40 am    Post subject:

bandiger wrote:
ISOM wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


There are Kobe haters who actually believe what he said. I never assume that people are just trolling especially when it comes to Kobe. A lot of these people are really disconnected from reality or dumb and act like Kobe has never won any championships without shaq.


Its not a coincidence that Kobe has won all his championships with a HOF center playing. Thats what Lakers build thier teams with a great center. Stop with the Kobe worship and think about (bleep) Laker legacy. Its why I want these freaking Lakers to draft a blue chip center, so maybe we can get on to the next era


Not a coincidence that Shaq and Pau both have the highest win share when they win the championship.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


Shaq won without Kobe, Kobe won (multiple times) without Shaq.. these are facts

What I always wonder is if Shaq didn't leave and we continued the triangle with personels who already knew the systems (including Phil of course)... I think we would've had another 3 peat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


Shaq is at his prime, another 3 is very likely. Fall of 03 and 04 season are mainly team chemistry's problem. Kobe just tired of being a sidekick. You can see he did not play smart and discipline ball like he did before and shooting much more than Shaq inefficiently.

lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


Shaq won without Kobe, Kobe won (multiple times) without Shaq.. these are facts

What I always wonder is if Shaq didn't leave and we continued the triangle with personels who already knew the systems (including Phil of course)... I think we would've had another 3 peat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.



lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


Shaq won without Kobe, Kobe won (multiple times) without Shaq.. these are facts

What I always wonder is if Shaq didn't leave and we continued the triangle with personels who already knew the systems (including Phil of course)... I think we would've had another 3 peat


Shaq is at his prime, another 3 is very likely. Fall of 03 and 04 season are mainly team chemistry's problem. Kobe just tired of being a sidekick. You can see he did not play smart and discipline ball like he did before and shooting much more than Shaq inefficiently.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject:

I think that Kobe would have been a friggin idiot to leave the Lakers for the Wizards. Evidently Kobe did as well, seeing how he stayed here for 19 seasons.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Vanessa vetoed that bishhh...

Kobe: Babe what do you think if I sign with the Wiz and play with my Idol MJ?

Vanessa:

Kobe:
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:12 pm    Post subject:

What if Columbus didn't discover America?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:01 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


Shaq won without Kobe, Kobe won (multiple times) without Shaq.. these are facts

What I always wonder is if Shaq didn't leave and we continued the triangle with personels who already knew the systems (including Phil of course)... I think we would've had another 3 peat



Shaq was starting to slow down by 04-05. Those teams would have needed a better 3rd option scoring wise. Which is why that Kareem Rush over Prince really screwed us more ways then one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:30 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Travers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
15 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Even though Kobe is an all time great, I do feel his career legacy actually suffered from playing with Shaq.
Without Shaq, his scoring records would be ridiculous. Im not even sure 81 would be his career high. At the very least, Im pretty sure he'd have at least 5 70 point games which isnt really a longshot, he scored over 55 in 3 quarters a few times in his life.

I still think he would get his championships, 4 at least.

All time great for sure...but should've even been greater IMO.

I do think he needed Phil though...much more than Shaq.


lmao at this. kobe would be like carmelo/ai/tmac/or gilbert withotu shaq. are you kidding me


Not sure how to put this in a civil and respectful way...but thats the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time here. And I apologize if it offends u, u are entitled to ur opinion but thats the argument Kobe haters used before he won his titles without Shaq..
By winning without Shaq, he shut em up forever.

He is not a TMac, AI, whatever. He is Jordan/LeBron level. More dominant than both as a scorer though.

Kobe would've killed without Shaq.
I remember in 2002, Shaq misses a game...Kobe scores 56 in 3..
In 2003, he was pretty much averaging a triple double or close to it without Shaq.

Kobe needed Phil. Not Shaq. Shaq held Kobe back.


When Robin left Batman, Robin still Robin. Shaq is Unique and irreplaceable while D wade, T mac, Carmelo, Lebron, Harden, many many players who can replace Kobe and have similar production.


Are u kidding me? Kobe is not a freaking Robin. He is a Batman who played a 2nd fiddle to another Batman.
That argument is lame btw. Shaq had NVE and Eddie Jones, didnt win.

Not taking anything from Shaq, he would still win without Kobe but Kobe would also win without Shaq, not even taking into account that he did win without Shaq...
Im talking about the time period of the early 00's...just like Kobe and Pau won a few yeaes later, they would also win in the early 00's..

Never understood why the argument in these scenarios is always that Shaq could win with other swingmen but its never that Kobe could win with other big men...as he did later on.


The poster you decided to respond to is just trolling to get a rise out of people....using worn out cliches to get a rise out of longtime Laker fans.


Shaq won without Kobe, Kobe won (multiple times) without Shaq.. these are facts

What I always wonder is if Shaq didn't leave and we continued the triangle with personels who already knew the systems (including Phil of course)... I think we would've had another 3 peat

Nope. In order to threepeat once more, Shaq would have trimmed his body down to the first year with Miami level and kept that level in tact. Overweight Shaq was prone to injury and would have pissed off Kobe even more (you know, besides resenting being called Penny Hardaway Part 2, Kobe was very critical of Big Bro being overweight and out of shape). They might have got one more ring but then from then on Super Kobe from 2005 and onward would not have tolerated old Shaq being "lazy.", overweight and out of shape using company time to heal. .
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers were the perfect platform and place for kobe. Wouldn't and shouldn't change a thing.


The difference is in the franchises. It's difficult, but possible for a championship support cast to be built around a superstar in LA. In DC, very, very improbable. That's not just on Kobe, that would any superstar in his shoes. That would even go for prime Shaq -- with ORL, he already had the taste of getting out of the East to get beat by a deeper West team, the Whizz would be a repeat. That franchise had their lone championship trophy in the back of some former employee's closet at home. They had to put out an APB to locate it a few yrs back. That is real ineptitude. I don't believe Kobe seriously (dotted line signature time) considered going there.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers were the perfect platform and place for kobe. Wouldn't and shouldn't change a thing.


The difference is in the franchises. It's difficult, but possible for a championship support cast to be built around a superstar in LA. In DC, very, very improbable. That's not just on Kobe, that would any superstar in his shoes. That would even go for prime Shaq -- with ORL, he already had the taste of getting out of the East to get beat by a deeper West team, the Whizz would be a repeat. That franchise had their lone championship trophy in the back of some former employee's closet at home. They had to put out an APB to locate it a few yrs back. That is real ineptitude. I don't believe Kobe seriously (dotted line signature time) considered going there.


This is where having a proven track record like Dr. Buss helped keep Kobe. Could stare Kobe in the eyes and tell him he will put a competitive team around him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers were the perfect platform and place for kobe. Wouldn't and shouldn't change a thing.


The difference is in the franchises. It's difficult, but possible for a championship support cast to be built around a superstar in LA. In DC, very, very improbable. That's not just on Kobe, that would any superstar in his shoes. That would even go for prime Shaq -- with ORL, he already had the taste of getting out of the East to get beat by a deeper West team, the Whizz would be a repeat. That franchise had their lone championship trophy in the back of some former employee's closet at home. They had to put out an APB to locate it a few yrs back. That is real ineptitude. I don't believe Kobe seriously (dotted line signature time) considered going there.


This is where having a proven track record like Dr. Buss helped keep Kobe. Could stare Kobe in the eyes and tell him he will put a competitive team around him.


Thankfully Jimmy can do the same exact thing.

...

Eh?! HUH?!!1 Get it?!!!11

OMG, we're screwed...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject:

We would have replaced him with someone not nearly as good but good enough to win one or two more titles with and he never would have won another ring.
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