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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: | | misterrunon wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | I don't see the need to trade the top 5 and Randle. We will have enough cap space to lure top FA's as is, (even more the following year).
I predict Randle will contribute significantly next year. He was already developing a solid outside shot and was pretty fearless going to the rim - we need to keep him unless we get a ridiculous offer. |
Agreed. I hope so. Develop the young and cheap talents. Hopefully they progress to starhood, develop institutional knowledge and stability. |
Yup, Okafor, Randle, along with Dragic and perhaps Leaonard (I know he's a RFA, but maybe we can steal him from SA) and Kobe. With Clarkson off the bench. I wouldn't mind seeing that young group starting at some point next year.
an up and coming group with Kobe eventually calling it quits, I could see a superstar FA eyeing that group with a lot of interest |
not even plausible. we don't have the cap money to get both dragic and kawhi in the offseason.
it would be really nice to get dragic and then KD in 2016 though.. in addition to randle and someone like towns. |
Am I missing something?;
Lin's expiring; 14 mil
Nash's expiring; 10 mil
Hill's expiring w/ team option; 9 mil
That's 33 mil, that's not enough to get dragic and Leonard? |
The Cap Hold for Hill was relatively low this past Summer and signing him last enabled the Lakers to go up to the $71 million area in Team Salary.
The Cap Hit for Lin is about $8.4 million even though the Lakers are actually paying him millions more due to the way his contract was structured by Houston.
With an expected Salary Cap of about $67 million for the 2015 - 2016 Season, the salaries for currently signed contracts are about $39 million and that included the $1 million contract for Davis. If Davis opts out, then that leaves about $38 million in existing contracts plus the Cap Holds for the player(s) that the Lakers will draft this Summer.
Add in a few roster charges at the minimum and that leaves about $22 - 23 million or so to sign Free Agents such as Dragic, Leonard (restricted), etc. |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5389
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | Wiggins is a better prospect for Randle IMO and I'm very high on Randle.
Any of the top 6 guys this year are far better prospects than Levine so that is an easy no.
Obviously it's impossible to predict where we finish but I'm very high on Okafor and Russell. IMO those 2 are going to end up the best of the draft. Okafor is my #1 and Russell #2 but no matter who we get, I'm not trading both unless it can get AD or it can lead to a championship ready team net year. |
Yeah I dont know how anyone could prefer Randle instead of Wiggins. Wiggins is a perfect 2 in the NBA and could even slide over to the 3. I think his floor is that of Harrison Barnes. And his ceiling is a superstar player.
But with Julius Randle - he's still an undersized 4 with short arms. He's a tweener. Maybe he can be a feisty rebounder - give you something like what Kenneth Faried does but with some more offensive moves. But overall, I think his ceiling is limited and his floor is pretty bad.
Some of these undersized 4s end up stinking in the NBA. I'm thinking Anthony Bennett being a prime example.
I'm not that sold on Russell. I've seen Ohio State play quite a bit and watched that kid in high school. He's a natural scorer that has score first mentality- not a PG. He has the athleticism of a Michael Carter Williams - meaning not very athletic. So, a guy with a scorer's first game but not much strength or athleticism - i think he can put up numbers in college but I question his transition to the NBA.
Mudiay is a Russell Westbrook clone. I'll take my chances developing a guy like that rather than Russell. |
Again with the ridiculous argument that 6-9 is undersized for a PF, and the proven to be wrong argument about short arms. At least try for some sort of accuracy. Why Randle is a better prospect is because he is more aggressive than Wiggins. I watch Wiggins play and some games he is driving to the hoop with consistency (because he has no outside shot), other games he spectates. That is the difference, one is an aggressive player who will do anything to win and the other is a guy happy to fall back on his physical talents. The difference is in their heads. And Mudiay's athleticism is about 50% of Westbrook's, a poor comparison. Guys who wimp out and go overseas to mask their deficiences do not impress at all. |
Randle is 6'9" in shoes, weighs 250 and has a 7-foot wing span, according to draft express. The only "short arms" argument is he has a standing reach of 8-9 1/2, which is a little small. In terms of size, wingspan and reach he's pretty comparable to Kevin Love.
The question marks around Randle are: poor jump shooting; inability to use his right hand; tendency to turn his head and lose his man on defense; and sometimes get tunnel vision on offense.
A lot of these things are poor habits learned over time. So the questions are whether he can learn better habits and how long that might take,
Because a lot of the issues are subtle, people were wildly divergent about how NBA ready Randle was. Some people saw his high motor, strength and rebounding and said he could start from day one. Others said the higher level of play in the NBA would make his shortcomings glaringly apparent in a way that the college level did not.
We didn't get much of a chance to see Randle against NBA-level opponents when it mattered, so the jury is still out whether the supporters or detractors are right, or whether the reality will fall somewhere in the middle. |
I agree that randle isn't under sized. If randle is undersized so is Blake griffin because they are almost identical. We also saw a lot of the question marks about randle answered in the short time that we saw him play. hes a bright kid and learns fast. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: |
Am I missing something?;
Lin's expiring; 14 mil
Nash's expiring; 10 mil
Hill's expiring w/ team option; 9 mil
That's 33 mil, that's not enough to get dragic and Leonard? |
You are missing something: $33 million in contracts expiring doesn't automatically give us $33 million in extra cap space, because we are $19 million over cap right now.
Even if we renounce all those guys, we'll probably have closer to $22-26 million in cap space next year, but no one knows for sure until the actual cap numbers are announced and we know what draft picks we have. If we get, say, the #3 pick that takes away $3.6 million in cap space. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: |
I agree that randle isn't under sized. If randle is undersized so is Blake griffin because they are almost identical. We also saw a lot of the question marks about randle answered in the short time that we saw him play. hes a bright kid and learns fast. |
I've seen your comments about Randle, and my opinion is 180-degrees different than yours. I don't think the question marks about Randle have in any way been answered. If anything, I think his play in preseason and summer league only served to show he has both potential and obstacles.
Personally, I think it will take a couple of years before we really get a sense of what Randle might be. I think he will struggle next year during his rookie season, just as this year's rookie class has been struggling.
I know some Laker fans have already penciled in a spot for him in the Hall of Fame, but as for me, he still needs to prove he can be a starter for a good team at the NBA level.
Last edited by activeverb on Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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misterrunon
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1904
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: |
Am I missing something?;
Lin's expiring; 14 mil
Nash's expiring; 10 mil
Hill's expiring w/ team option; 9 mil
That's 33 mil, that's not enough to get dragic and Leonard? |
You are missing something: $33 million in contracts expiring doesn't automatically give us $33 million in extra cap space, because we are $19 million over cap right now.
Even if we renounce all those guys, we'll probably have closer to $22-26 million in cap space next year, but no one knows for sure until the actual cap numbers are announced and we know what draft picks we have. If we get, say, the #3 pick that takes away $3.6 million in cap space. |
we'll probably have $36ish million under the books.
kobe: $25
swaggy: $5.22
julius: $3.13
rkelly: $1.72
JC: $.85
Tblack: not sure how much he makes, but we are keeping him.
with a top pick, that's more like $39-$41 million under the books.
goran's max i believe is $17.5 million too.
Last edited by misterrunon on Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cha*n
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Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 7233
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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There's a reason Ding is writing for the Bleacher Report.
The Lakers FO will do what is best with the possibilities that arise.
Nobody knows what they may be.
I hate trade speculation. One thing for certain. It'll be found wrong. |
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misterrunon
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Posts: 1904
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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warriors will want to unload iguodala.. so i say we absorb him him for 2nd rounders rounders (we can take him for nothing since we are uner the cap), and then go for goran dragic.
PG: goran dragic
SG: kobe
SF: AI
PF: randle
C: towns |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5389
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: |
I agree that randle isn't under sized. If randle is undersized so is Blake griffin because they are almost identical. We also saw a lot of the question marks about randle answered in the short time that we saw him play. hes a bright kid and learns fast. |
I've seen your comments about Randle, and my opinion is 180-degrees different than yours. I don't think the question marks about Randle have in any way been answered. If anything, I think his play in preseason and summer league only served to show he has both potential and obstacles.
Personally, I think it will take a couple of years before we really get a sense of what Randle might be. I think he will struggle next year during his rookie season, just as this year's rookie class has been struggling.
I know some Laker fans have already penciled in a spot for him in the Hall of Fame, but as for me, he still needs to prove he can be a starter for a good team at the NBA level. |
I wrote this really long response about projecting talent but decided it was a waste of my time and yours and deleted it.
Julius Randle will be a star in this league if he's healthy
All rookies take a few years to reach their potential
Some people enjoy evaluating and projecting talent and others would rather wait until they are stars to recognize them. It's a personal preference and nobody is wrong either way. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| misterrunon wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: |
Am I missing something?;
Lin's expiring; 14 mil
Nash's expiring; 10 mil
Hill's expiring w/ team option; 9 mil
That's 33 mil, that's not enough to get dragic and Leonard? |
You are missing something: $33 million in contracts expiring doesn't automatically give us $33 million in extra cap space, because we are $19 million over cap right now.
Even if we renounce all those guys, we'll probably have closer to $22-26 million in cap space next year, but no one knows for sure until the actual cap numbers are announced and we know what draft picks we have. If we get, say, the #3 pick that takes away $3.6 million in cap space. |
we'll probably have $36ish million under the books.
kobe: $25
swaggy: $5.22
julius: $3.13
rkelly: $1.72
JC: $.85
Tblack: not sure how much he makes, but we are keeping him.
with a top pick, that's more like $39-$41 million under the books.
goran's max i believe is $17.5 million too. |
Using a cap of $66 mil, Dragic's max is around $18.6 mil.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Goldenwest
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Posts: 2802
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | misterrunon wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | I don't see the need to trade the top 5 and Randle. We will have enough cap space to lure top FA's as is, (even more the following year).
I predict Randle will contribute significantly next year. He was already developing a solid outside shot and was pretty fearless going to the rim - we need to keep him unless we get a ridiculous offer. |
Agreed. I hope so. Develop the young and cheap talents. Hopefully they progress to starhood, develop institutional knowledge and stability. |
Yup, Okafor, Randle, along with Dragic and perhaps Leaonard (I know he's a RFA, but maybe we can steal him from SA) and Kobe. With Clarkson off the bench. I wouldn't mind seeing that young group starting at some point next year.
an up and coming group with Kobe eventually calling it quits, I could see a superstar FA eyeing that group with a lot of interest |
not even plausible. we don't have the cap money to get both dragic and kawhi in the offseason.
it would be really nice to get dragic and then KD in 2016 though.. in addition to randle and someone like towns. |
Am I missing something?;
Lin's expiring; 14 mil
Nash's expiring; 10 mil
Hill's expiring w/ team option; 9 mil
That's 33 mil, that's not enough to get dragic and Leonard? |
The Cap Hold for Hill was relatively low this past Summer and signing him last enabled the Lakers to go up to the $71 million area in Team Salary.
The Cap Hit for Lin is about $8.4 million even though the Lakers are actually paying him millions more due to the way his contract was structured by Houston.
With an expected Salary Cap of about $67 million for the 2015 - 2016 Season, the salaries for currently signed contracts are about $39 million and that included the $1 million contract for Davis. If Davis opts out, then that leaves about $38 million in existing contracts plus the Cap Holds for the player(s) that the Lakers will draft this Summer.
Add in a few roster charges at the minimum and that leaves about $22 - 23 million or so to sign Free Agents such as Dragic, Leonard (restricted), etc. |
 in that case, probably not enough for both. PG (along with an anchor at the 5) is probably more important than a wing for this team. Dragic would be an upgrade over Lin and hopefully we score a certain Center through the draft. |
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_#1_
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 4752
Location: Next door to 24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes no sense to trade both Randle and the pick for any of the realistic guys that would come back. Nobody is letting go of their young HOF maybe. It also means that we let go of cheap for expensive. Keep cheap and add through FA. Now if it came down to trading one of those for a RFA that's still a tough call given the higher salary hurting near future moves. |
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
No problem with that.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: |
I agree that randle isn't under sized. If randle is undersized so is Blake griffin because they are almost identical. We also saw a lot of the question marks about randle answered in the short time that we saw him play. hes a bright kid and learns fast. |
I've seen your comments about Randle, and my opinion is 180-degrees different than yours. I don't think the question marks about Randle have in any way been answered. If anything, I think his play in preseason and summer league only served to show he has both potential and obstacles.
Personally, I think it will take a couple of years before we really get a sense of what Randle might be. I think he will struggle next year during his rookie season, just as this year's rookie class has been struggling.
I know some Laker fans have already penciled in a spot for him in the Hall of Fame, but as for me, he still needs to prove he can be a starter for a good team at the NBA level. |
I wrote this really long response about projecting talent but decided it was a waste of my time and yours and deleted it.
Julius Randle will be a star in this league if he's healthy
All rookies take a few years to reach their potential
Some people enjoy evaluating and projecting talent and others would rather wait until they are stars to recognize them. It's a personal preference and nobody is wrong either way. |
I think you are misstating my position. I like evaluating talent and projecting how they will do. My analysis simply different than yours. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
No problem with that. |
With the current CBA, this is the only way to fly. But I would add.....trade for a serviceable starter level player coming up on a low cap hold QO now (RJ).
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
No problem with that. |
I think Mitch will do just that. Best scenario IMO |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
No problem with that. |
I think Mitch will do just that. Best scenario IMO |
I think the temptation will be there to trade off the pick, but if done right, we can still grab an impact free agent or two in free agency, and have a better team to offer for free agents in 2016 and 2017 (and you can trade said draft pick then too).
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
No problem with that. |
With the current CBA, this is the only way to fly. But I would add.....trade for a serviceable starter level player coming up on a low cap hold QO now (RJ). |
What I'm hoping for. A trade between LA & OKC makes too much sense around RJ
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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BigE32
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 8518
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | The best decision is to keep Randle, the pick, and sign a FA.
Two rookie contracts and a stud FA. |
Agree. |
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Dave20
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| We're just gonna have to build through the draft, I don't expect a superstar player to sign to a rebuilding team. Randle and Clarkson both look promising, Mitch really has to find a star with this top 5 pick. When those three develop and start to win together in 3 years, then the Lakers will look attractive to some free agents. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Lebron did that so he could go home. Some LA related star might as well.
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