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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
22 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST, Mudiay has a fluidness with his handle that Exum never had. Just an eye test difference that you see between PGs and SFs.


Problem is, he doesn't have the IQ and outright speed that Exum has.


Exum's burst is eye popping. Mudiay's is advertised like it is, but it's really not, neither is Clarkson's end to end IMO. Mudiay does have a great, quick hesitation tho.


Where do you question Mudiay's IQ?
you could see his burst when he got posterized by Clarkson last night. He shouldn't have even been in position to contest, but he has that nice burst


lmao thank god for that.

don't see much burst from him with the ball though,,, cuz he has no moves to set it up..


The ball slows him down a lot, as a result of his weak ball handling. I'm very critical of him and don't think he'll amount to much, but you can see the burst when he fights over screens on the defensive end. Yet it makes his inability to get to the FT line even more perplexing. Even a guy with weak handles can occasionally get to the rack on a straight line drive, and someone with his burst should be able to use that to his advantage.
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44TheLogo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:17 pm    Post subject:

man you all are REALLY condemnig exum for being soft and mentally unable to change already? This isn't just a transition from high school to the pros, but also from one country to another. He's a 19 year old kid and has a lot of growing to do, both physically and mentally. I think good mentorship could do him a world of good, just like it would for any young kid out there.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
man you all are REALLY condemnig exum for being soft and mentally unable to change already? This isn't just a transition from high school to the pros, but also from one country to another. He's a 19 year old kid and has a lot of growing to do, both physically and mentally. I think good mentorship could do him a world of good, just like it would for any young kid out there.


He's not the first young player to come from another country. He doesn't even show flashes of excellence, as most rookies who end up being something usually do.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
22 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST, Mudiay has a fluidness with his handle that Exum never had. Just an eye test difference that you see between PGs and SFs.


Problem is, he doesn't have the IQ and outright speed that Exum has.


Exum's burst is eye popping. Mudiay's is advertised like it is, but it's really not, neither is Clarkson's end to end IMO. Mudiay does have a great, quick hesitation tho.


Where do you question Mudiay's IQ?
you could see his burst when he got posterized by Clarkson last night. He shouldn't have even been in position to contest, but he has that nice burst


lmao thank god for that.

don't see much burst from him with the ball though,,, cuz he has no moves to set it up..


The ball slows him down a lot, as a result of his weak ball handling. I'm very critical of him and don't think he'll amount to much, but you can see the burst when he fights over screens on the defensive end. Yet it makes his inability to get to the FT line even more perplexing. Even a guy with weak handles can occasionally get to the rack on a straight line drive, and someone with his burst should be able to use that to his advantage.


His burst is impressively limited by his ball handling. Like, you have to be really bad with the ball to never be able to use it. Insufficiencies off the dribble are really brought to the forefront when your guarded by the quickest players on the court. Playing PG is very tough. They also recognize dribble moves the fastest becuase they use the moves themselves; wing defenders don't see the dribble moves as much.
Not sure he'll ever get his handles/moves good enough to utilize all that speed, at PG. At SG I think he has a chance.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:53 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
man you all are REALLY condemnig exum for being soft and mentally unable to change already? This isn't just a transition from high school to the pros, but also from one country to another. He's a 19 year old kid and has a lot of growing to do, both physically and mentally. I think good mentorship could do him a world of good, just like it would for any young kid out there.


He's not the first young player to come from another country. He doesn't even show flashes of excellence, as most rookies who end up being something usually do.


How much of it do you attribute to his greatest competition being the U18 and NOT going to college which also enables you to get away with things you can't at the next level unless you adjust them? For instance, the handle, and habits he formed in the U18 that he would have had to adjust and fix in college he never had to adjust or work on and he's basically going from the U18 and Australian High School competition to the NBA.

Because when I do watch old videos, he gets away with a lot of things within his handle at the U18 and High School level that wouldn't have flown in college and won't fly in the NBA. But he made the jump from one to the other. How much do you attribute to that jump he made and it being too soon?
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:34 am    Post subject:

Nbadraft.net has the Lakers drafting

Karl Towns
Tyus Jones
Rakeem Christmas



Now THAT'S more like it
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
man you all are REALLY condemnig exum for being soft and mentally unable to change already? This isn't just a transition from high school to the pros, but also from one country to another. He's a 19 year old kid and has a lot of growing to do, both physically and mentally. I think good mentorship could do him a world of good, just like it would for any young kid out there.


He's not the first young player to come from another country. He doesn't even show flashes of excellence, as most rookies who end up being something usually do.


And his dad is American and he doesn't have a language barrier. Going from Australia to US is hardly a culture shock. Not that any of this matters, just don't see a point in this argument.

I was against drafting Exum last year, knew he wouldn't amount to much as a rookie and was skeptical about his potential. He doesn't have the the unstoppable go to move that can get him points at will. Can't drive to the hoop at will, has troble absorbing contact, doesn't have that reckless mentality and aggressiion that Clarkson has. On the other hand he isn't as smooth or crafty as the likes of Nash and Harden.
So all in all, he is fairly versatile with potential to be decent.

Think I called that one correctly at the time. Glad we got Randle. He was my #1 guy all along last year. I remember telling people Randle was nothing like Zach Randolph and that he'd be either too strong or too fast for most everyone guarding him. Can't wait for him to play. I really didn't want Exum, really wanted Randle, can't wait for Randle to dominate!
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject:

Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.

Kind of like guys already giving up on Rudy Gobert his rookie season.
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:39 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.


Nope, not really. Like I said, I THINK I called it correctly. Of course, anything is possible.
I just think I managed to get a really good feel for his game last year and how it would translate. He's exactly like I expected him to be and even though he is young, he hasn't shown many flashes thus far. Usually those rookies that develop into something special, they show many flashes even in their rookie season.
I am fairly confident in my assessment of Exum. Not high on him personally.

I wanted to avoid Exum and Embiid and draft Randle. Glad we did.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject:

How about Guillermo Hernangomez with the houston pick
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.


Nope, not really. Like I said, I THINK I called it correctly. Of course, anything is possible.
I just think I managed to get a really good feel for his game last year and how it would translate. He's exactly like I expected him to be and even though he is young, he hasn't shown many flashes thus far. Usually those rookies that develop into something special, they show many flashes even in their rookie season.
I am fairly confident in my assessment of Exum. Not high on him personally.

I wanted to avoid Exum and Embiid and draft Randle. Glad we did.


I think the guy that's a bust is Trey Burke. A year under his belt. NCAA championship. Struggles to finish at the rim. Jumpshot isn't so consistent. "Smooth athleticism" doesn't always equal blow by ability.

Not helping Exum's game despite those leadership qualities.

At least people around the league acknowledge upside and Exum's background.
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:13 am    Post subject:

Yeah, I was pretty damn wrong about Burke. I mean, I guess it's possible he can be an okay player in the league, but he shot so well in college and he's shooting for (bleep) in the NBA, that's a horrible sign.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.

Kind of like guys already giving up on Rudy Gobert his rookie season.


I hope the Jazz feel that way. They may send him here for Sacre =p
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject:

I'm still high on Russell if we keep the pick and don't trade, Towns as well. I like Mudiay the most if we are trading the pick, but would keep him as well, since he probably has the most upside?

People that question Russells ability to play point figure this.

John Wall averaged 6.5 assts in college, but he was a turnover machine at 4 a game. Wall was a 46% guy, but only 32% from the land. He played 35 minutes and averaged 1.8 stls a game.

Now Russell is averaging 5.4 assts, and he is not even the point guard, but his usage rating is ridiculous. He only turns the ball over 2.7 times though and shoots 46% from the field and 43% from downtown. He plays 33 mins and averages 1.7 stls a game.

Very comparable players stat wise and very tell telling. Wall is obviously a slasher, where are Russell is a smooth jumpshooter.

Trey Burkes college numbers are almost identical to Wall. I think Burkes problem is that he is not as athletic as Wall but he plays the same way. Not to mention Burkes height does him no favors, the height being his main obstacle imo. I think Burke can be good in this league, but with the size of these pgs now a days, you either have to be lightning quick or highly skilled. Burke is trapped somewhere in the middle.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Yeah, I was pretty damn wrong about Burke. I mean, I guess it's possible he can be an okay player in the league, but he shot so well in college and he's shooting for (bleep) in the NBA, that's a horrible sign.


That dude was absolute fire during the tournament. I had moderate hopes for him just based on NCAA credentials alone.

It just shows that the NBA is a different beast.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.

Kind of like guys already giving up on Rudy Gobert his rookie season.


Who in the world was "giving up" on Rudy Gobert after his rookie season? He had great rebound and block rates, amongst the best in the league in limited minutes as a rookie. Exum's the complete opposite end of the spectrum, with historically bad numbers, both in terms of conventional stats and more advanced ones.

If you want to wait to call him a bust, I don't have any problem with that, but he is light years away from even being an average player. I also think the "situation" thing is a cop out when it comes to players. Sure, some places are better than others, but guys who can play shine through regardless of where they are. Exum's problems are his own. He can't handle the ball, he's a poor shooter, and he's terrified.

And I'm not giving up on Exum, I never thought he was very good in the first place. I've followed the draft very closely since 1992, and he's one of the most perplexing "what do people see in him" prospects I've ever seen.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:00 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Guys are calling it already on a project player that is not in an ideal situation?

Nice.

Kind of like guys already giving up on Rudy Gobert his rookie season.


Who in the world was "giving up" on Rudy Gobert after his rookie season? He had great rebound and block rates, amongst the best in the league in limited minutes as a rookie. Exum's the complete opposite end of the spectrum, with historically bad numbers, both in terms of conventional stats and more advanced ones.

If you want to wait to call him a bust, I don't have any problem with that, but he is light years away from even being an average player. I also think the "situation" thing is a cop out when it comes to players. Sure, some places are better than others, but guys who can play shine through regardless of where they are. Exum's problems are his own. He can't handle the ball, he's a poor shooter, and he's terrified.

And I'm not giving up on Exum, I never thought he was very good in the first place. I've followed the draft very closely since 1992, and he's one of the most perplexing "what do people see in him" prospects I've ever seen.


Sect of Utah fans. Foul prone. Pushed around. Soft finishes in the paint. Couldn't explode up.

Now? He's fine.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject:

I'm think that the best move the Lakers could make is to grab Stanley Johnson for a SF role. He defends well and he's physically gifted. I think he could contribute immediately and well, especially next to a presumably healthy Julius Randle. That's the forwards for the next five years.

Adding whichever unsigned shooting guard they can from Portland's current roster (Afflalo or Wes Matthews) completes what I'd call a helluva pair of main Summer moves without breaking the bank.

Kobe fits in there somewhere too, but perhaps as a Pippen-like distributor, but it's time to replace him as the main talent at SG. One can't come back all-at-once, but these are good steps for 2015-2016.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:


I was against drafting Exum last year, knew he wouldn't amount to much as a rookie and was skeptical about his potential. He doesn't have the the unstoppable go to move that can get him points at will. Can't drive to the hoop at will, has troble absorbing contact, doesn't have that reckless mentality and aggressiion that Clarkson has. On the other hand he isn't as smooth or crafty as the likes of Nash and Harden.


Question is which rookie has amounted to much. Wiggins/Parker. That's it. The 2 most polished NBA ready players. The rest are projects - even Randle. And all rookies require a certain handling for them to improve. Exum with the Lakers would be a different animal with encouragement to be reckless. Passive Lin with Kobe is different than reckless Lin. Same skills. Environment matters.
Exum is 19. he deserves more years before his project status becomes "bust"
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Question.

Assume the Lakers have the 4th pick.

Okafor, Towns and Russell go the first 3

You have the choices of Mudiay or Johnson in front of you.

Would you try to trade that pick to the Jazz for Exum and their pick?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Draft express has us taking Rj hunter with the Houston pick. He looks legit.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Question.

Assume the Lakers have the 4th pick.

Okafor, Towns and Russell go the first 3

You have the choices of Mudiay or Johnson in front of you.

Would you try to trade that pick to the Jazz for Exum and their pick?

No because I'd draft WCS then
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:30 pm    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
Draft express has us taking Rj hunter with the Houston pick. He looks legit.


i want either him or George Lucas de Brazil. I like RJ a lot
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Question.

Assume the Lakers have the 4th pick.

Okafor, Towns and Russell go the first 3

You have the choices of Mudiay or Johnson in front of you.

Would you try to trade that pick to the Jazz for Exum and their pick?


Willie Cauley Stein, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja.

Clarkson took over Exum's spot.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
Draft express has us taking Rj hunter with the Houston pick. He looks legit.


Am I the only one who is lukewarm on RJ Hunter? 39%FG.

Tremendous range.

Opportunistic slasher. Average speed. Sometimes erratic shot selection because of reliance on jumpshot.

Though, admittedly, I could say that Curry and Klay Thompson have erratic shot selection as well.

But, both are MUCH better are attacking the hoop.

Going by DX mock, I prefer Kris Dunn or Star Wars. Dunn is the "safe, athletic pick" and Star Wars is the high risk, high reward pick.
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