I'm probably not going to put my son into BJJ until he's got a good wrestling base first. When it comes to control, I see wrestling as the superior art.
My son is 6 yrs old right now and enrolled in Kenpo. He's just an orange belt and had his first tournament a short while back. He entered Forms and Self Defense Techniques.
When his teacher asked him why he didn't enter Sparring (he's not too shabby), he said, "It's point sparring. It's not real sparring."
The teacher felt so proud.
Awesome! That's where I started back in the day. Good stuff. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
I'm probably not going to put my son into BJJ until he's got a good wrestling base first. When it comes to control, I see wrestling as the superior art.
My son is 6 yrs old right now and enrolled in Kenpo. He's just an orange belt and had his first tournament a short while back. He entered Forms and Self Defense Techniques.
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
My son started taekwondo at 5, and is now a 2nd degree black belt. He's been doing bjj for almost a year, and we'll be adding kickboxing this summer. I plan on him doing bjj and kickboxing for the next few years, and then we'll see where he goes from there. He's 11 now, so he has a ways to go.
Definitely enjoy hearing others experiences with bjj and mma. I hope this translates to life long skills for him.
My daughters will start TKD this summer. They are 6. I'm not a fan of TKD as I think it'll get your ass kicked in the real world. But it is a good introduction to the martial arts and I don't want my girls to be able to really hurt someone at this age.
I figure they'll take a similar path as your Son. At 9 or 10, I'll start training them in MT and then move to JJ. My goal is that by the time they are in middle school, no way anyone ever tries to (bleep) with them. I think that the MT will be the lynchpin to their ability to protect themselves as it's really for the first 15 or 20 seconds of the fight and then things go to ground. But unless you're trained to deal with that first 15 seconds of that trained MT fighter, you can't hope to last.
One good thing about TKD is that it looks cool, which is enough to keep kids motivated. It's also great for learning balance and body control.
I always wondered when was a good time for MT because I wondered if working those shins would stunt growth at all.
I'm not big into shins. For the most part, I practice kicks to the lower outer and inner thigh only. Kicking any higher, or kicking a lot will get you in a very bad position, especially living in a state where everyone wrestles. In MT competition, where everyone agrees not to go to ground, it's all good to do all the high, medium and low kicks, but in a street fight, where there are no rules, that's a losing position.
The power of MT in a street fight, IMO, is the ability to know how to get into either a favorable clinch or plume and then drop crippling bombs with hands, elbows and knees.
I do agree with you about TKD for those reasons and also because the program near my house is just stellar for children. But they'll never save themselves with that. I'm no great fighter, but I'd feel pretty confident going against even a World Class TKD fighter if that's all he/she brought to the table.
I agree, I never though about TKD as the answer for self defense. I found it is a great gateway into martial arts. I will say that TKD has provided my son with confidence that he didn't have prior to training. When my son is training and "in the mood" to spar he's pretty good at it. He's done state competitions, and nationals (there are some damn talented kids at the national level), and as a result he's become pretty damn good with his feet.
I have hopes that the TKD will transfer over to the kickboxing. In TKD there is minimal emphasis on using your hands, so I figure kickboxing will be a good way for him to learn stand up fighting with his feet AND hands, all while using a form that he is already very comfortable with. As you mention, the fight will eventually go to the ground, so that's where the BJJ comes in at. He chose that himself, and seems to enjoy it. I will say that BJJ is tough to learn, or at least it will take years and years of training to master it. I'm glad I got him into it while he is still young.
That's awesome. I hope my girls follow in your son's footsteps!
Actually there are 2 federations in TKD. A friend of mine is taking his black belt in April and he has told me and I have seen a couple tourneys that don't allow any head strikes and punching really doesn't count even if you connect to the body by rule it should count 1 point. In reality they don't count it or teach it. This is Olympic style WTF TKD. The other federation ITF encourages head strikes and is more tuned to self defense. It looks a lot like kick boxing to me http://youtu.be/oDJXCkIL9UQ
My son started taekwondo at 5, and is now a 2nd degree black belt. He's been doing bjj for almost a year, and we'll be adding kickboxing this summer. I plan on him doing bjj and kickboxing for the next few years, and then we'll see where he goes from there. He's 11 now, so he has a ways to go.
Definitely enjoy hearing others experiences with bjj and mma. I hope this translates to life long skills for him.
My daughters will start TKD this summer. They are 6. I'm not a fan of TKD as I think it'll get your ass kicked in the real world. But it is a good introduction to the martial arts and I don't want my girls to be able to really hurt someone at this age.
I figure they'll take a similar path as your Son. At 9 or 10, I'll start training them in MT and then move to JJ. My goal is that by the time they are in middle school, no way anyone ever tries to (bleep) with them. I think that the MT will be the lynchpin to their ability to protect themselves as it's really for the first 15 or 20 seconds of the fight and then things go to ground. But unless you're trained to deal with that first 15 seconds of that trained MT fighter, you can't hope to last.
One good thing about TKD is that it looks cool, which is enough to keep kids motivated. It's also great for learning balance and body control.
I always wondered when was a good time for MT because I wondered if working those shins would stunt growth at all.
I'm not big into shins. For the most part, I practice kicks to the lower outer and inner thigh only. Kicking any higher, or kicking a lot will get you in a very bad position, especially living in a state where everyone wrestles. In MT competition, where everyone agrees not to go to ground, it's all good to do all the high, medium and low kicks, but in a street fight, where there are no rules, that's a losing position.
The power of MT in a street fight, IMO, is the ability to know how to get into either a favorable clinch or plume and then drop crippling bombs with hands, elbows and knees.
I do agree with you about TKD for those reasons and also because the program near my house is just stellar for children. But they'll never save themselves with that. I'm no great fighter, but I'd feel pretty confident going against even a World Class TKD fighter if that's all he/she brought to the table.
I agree, I never though about TKD as the answer for self defense. I found it is a great gateway into martial arts. I will say that TKD has provided my son with confidence that he didn't have prior to training. When my son is training and "in the mood" to spar he's pretty good at it. He's done state competitions, and nationals (there are some damn talented kids at the national level), and as a result he's become pretty damn good with his feet.
I have hopes that the TKD will transfer over to the kickboxing. In TKD there is minimal emphasis on using your hands, so I figure kickboxing will be a good way for him to learn stand up fighting with his feet AND hands, all while using a form that he is already very comfortable with. As you mention, the fight will eventually go to the ground, so that's where the BJJ comes in at. He chose that himself, and seems to enjoy it. I will say that BJJ is tough to learn, or at least it will take years and years of training to master it. I'm glad I got him into it while he is still young.
That's awesome. I hope my girls follow in your son's footsteps!
Actually there are 2 federations in TKD. A friend of mine is taking his black belt in April and he has told me and I have seen a couple tourneys that don't allow any head strikes and punching really doesn't count even if you connect to the body by rule it should count 1 point. In reality they don't count it or teach it. This is Olympic style what the heck TKD. The other federation ITF encourages head strikes and is more tuned to self defense. It looks a lot like kick boxing to me http://youtu.be/oDJXCkIL9UQ
Thanks EPLF. I didn't know that they had an offshoot that used their hands. But still, it's just not in the same universe regarding brutality for a variety of reasons.
The TKD kick generally has many more moving parts than the MT kick, of which there are generally only two. Look at the back foot in the thai round house to see how much torque they generate by foot placement holding off before they release. The difference is profound.
Even in the TKD branch that allows the use of hands, they stop them when they go into the clinch. That clinch, man, it's the most brutal stand up style of fighting in the World. Virtually every MMA fighter who comes from a non-boxing style adopts MT because of this.
Just look at these two videos to see how absolutely brutal it really is. In the first one start at about the 5:45 mark and just shake your head. It's some scary (bleep).
In the second one, notice how the elbows and knees are used. TKD has nothing like it and for me, with my build, basically the same height and build as Mark Wahlberg, it's where I go in my sparring, and where I would go if I absolutely HAD to fight someone. Not that I ever want to fight someone again. It's just too dangerous. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 2634 Location: Orange County
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject:
Not sure if you guys have seen this already, but there's a documentary that was made about jiu-jitsu in SoCal:
_________________ "Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons."
My son started taekwondo at 5, and is now a 2nd degree black belt. He's been doing bjj for almost a year, and we'll be adding kickboxing this summer. I plan on him doing bjj and kickboxing for the next few years, and then we'll see where he goes from there. He's 11 now, so he has a ways to go.
Definitely enjoy hearing others experiences with bjj and mma. I hope this translates to life long skills for him.
My daughters will start TKD this summer. They are 6. I'm not a fan of TKD as I think it'll get your ass kicked in the real world. But it is a good introduction to the martial arts and I don't want my girls to be able to really hurt someone at this age.
I figure they'll take a similar path as your Son. At 9 or 10, I'll start training them in MT and then move to JJ. My goal is that by the time they are in middle school, no way anyone ever tries to (bleep) with them. I think that the MT will be the lynchpin to their ability to protect themselves as it's really for the first 15 or 20 seconds of the fight and then things go to ground. But unless you're trained to deal with that first 15 seconds of that trained MT fighter, you can't hope to last.
One good thing about TKD is that it looks cool, which is enough to keep kids motivated. It's also great for learning balance and body control.
I always wondered when was a good time for MT because I wondered if working those shins would stunt growth at all.
I'm not big into shins. For the most part, I practice kicks to the lower outer and inner thigh only. Kicking any higher, or kicking a lot will get you in a very bad position, especially living in a state where everyone wrestles. In MT competition, where everyone agrees not to go to ground, it's all good to do all the high, medium and low kicks, but in a street fight, where there are no rules, that's a losing position.
The power of MT in a street fight, IMO, is the ability to know how to get into either a favorable clinch or plume and then drop crippling bombs with hands, elbows and knees.
I do agree with you about TKD for those reasons and also because the program near my house is just stellar for children. But they'll never save themselves with that. I'm no great fighter, but I'd feel pretty confident going against even a World Class TKD fighter if that's all he/she brought to the table.
I agree, I never though about TKD as the answer for self defense. I found it is a great gateway into martial arts. I will say that TKD has provided my son with confidence that he didn't have prior to training. When my son is training and "in the mood" to spar he's pretty good at it. He's done state competitions, and nationals (there are some damn talented kids at the national level), and as a result he's become pretty damn good with his feet.
I have hopes that the TKD will transfer over to the kickboxing. In TKD there is minimal emphasis on using your hands, so I figure kickboxing will be a good way for him to learn stand up fighting with his feet AND hands, all while using a form that he is already very comfortable with. As you mention, the fight will eventually go to the ground, so that's where the BJJ comes in at. He chose that himself, and seems to enjoy it. I will say that BJJ is tough to learn, or at least it will take years and years of training to master it. I'm glad I got him into it while he is still young.
That's awesome. I hope my girls follow in your son's footsteps!
Actually there are 2 federations in TKD. A friend of mine is taking his black belt in April and he has told me and I have seen a couple tourneys that don't allow any head strikes and punching really doesn't count even if you connect to the body by rule it should count 1 point. In reality they don't count it or teach it. This is Olympic style what the heck TKD. The other federation ITF encourages head strikes and is more tuned to self defense. It looks a lot like kick boxing to me http://youtu.be/oDJXCkIL9UQ
Thanks EPLF. I didn't know that they had an offshoot that used their hands. But still, it's just not in the same universe regarding brutality for a variety of reasons.
The TKD kick generally has many more moving parts than the MT kick, of which there are generally only two. Look at the back foot in the thai round house to see how much torque they generate by foot placement holding off before they release. The difference is profound.
Even in the TKD branch that allows the use of hands, they stop them when they go into the clinch. That clinch, man, it's the most brutal stand up style of fighting in the World. Virtually every MMA fighter who comes from a non-boxing style adopts MT because of this.
Just look at these two videos to see how absolutely brutal it really is. In the first one start at about the 5:45 mark and just shake your head. It's some scary (bleep).
In the second one, notice how the elbows and knees are used. TKD has nothing like it and for me, with my build, basically the same height and build as Mark Wahlberg, it's where I go in my sparring, and where I would go if I absolutely HAD to fight someone. Not that I ever want to fight someone again. It's just too dangerous.
Yeah I get to see a lot of Muay Thai, living in Thailand there are a lot of local shows and many televised matches. What comes to me is that Muay Thai like many other disciplines can be pretty doctrinaire. If you watch the younger, non elite fighters you will see an emphasis on kicking and very little effective hand strikes. A lot of front kicks and kicks to the lower leg and thigh. When they close the gap they generally grasp behind the head in order to get leverage for knees to the body and to defend against elbows.
Almost always if one guy is a better hand striker they will win. I think that this is because hand striking is taught last and the younger non elite fighters don't have as much experience with it. However as with any doctrinaire discipline, techniques that are not taught are difficult to defend against. In some other thread I posted a link to this guy Cyrus Washington. He was fighting out of Phuket Thailand for a while training in Muay Thai and fighting Muay Thai fighters. He had a tremendous record against elite Muay Thai fighters. His background was Black Belt TKD, karate, and boxing. As a 48 year old he was beating guys many years his junior because he could bring stuff to the table that they just didn't train for and thus had no defense for like the spinning back kick, which was one of his signature KO moves. He won some big tourney a few years ago in Myanmar with all the best Muay Thai fighters in the world. Nobody was ready for Black Dynamite. Check it out here. http://youtu.be/MYZ9u8AwtEs
edit: I can't believe that the abbreviation for World Taekwando Federation was changed to what the heck.
My son started taekwondo at 5, and is now a 2nd degree black belt. He's been doing bjj for almost a year, and we'll be adding kickboxing this summer. I plan on him doing bjj and kickboxing for the next few years, and then we'll see where he goes from there. He's 11 now, so he has a ways to go.
Definitely enjoy hearing others experiences with bjj and mma. I hope this translates to life long skills for him.
My daughters will start TKD this summer. They are 6. I'm not a fan of TKD as I think it'll get your ass kicked in the real world. But it is a good introduction to the martial arts and I don't want my girls to be able to really hurt someone at this age.
I figure they'll take a similar path as your Son. At 9 or 10, I'll start training them in MT and then move to JJ. My goal is that by the time they are in middle school, no way anyone ever tries to (bleep) with them. I think that the MT will be the lynchpin to their ability to protect themselves as it's really for the first 15 or 20 seconds of the fight and then things go to ground. But unless you're trained to deal with that first 15 seconds of that trained MT fighter, you can't hope to last.
One good thing about TKD is that it looks cool, which is enough to keep kids motivated. It's also great for learning balance and body control.
I always wondered when was a good time for MT because I wondered if working those shins would stunt growth at all.
I'm not big into shins. For the most part, I practice kicks to the lower outer and inner thigh only. Kicking any higher, or kicking a lot will get you in a very bad position, especially living in a state where everyone wrestles. In MT competition, where everyone agrees not to go to ground, it's all good to do all the high, medium and low kicks, but in a street fight, where there are no rules, that's a losing position.
The power of MT in a street fight, IMO, is the ability to know how to get into either a favorable clinch or plume and then drop crippling bombs with hands, elbows and knees.
I do agree with you about TKD for those reasons and also because the program near my house is just stellar for children. But they'll never save themselves with that. I'm no great fighter, but I'd feel pretty confident going against even a World Class TKD fighter if that's all he/she brought to the table.
I agree, I never though about TKD as the answer for self defense. I found it is a great gateway into martial arts. I will say that TKD has provided my son with confidence that he didn't have prior to training. When my son is training and "in the mood" to spar he's pretty good at it. He's done state competitions, and nationals (there are some damn talented kids at the national level), and as a result he's become pretty damn good with his feet.
I have hopes that the TKD will transfer over to the kickboxing. In TKD there is minimal emphasis on using your hands, so I figure kickboxing will be a good way for him to learn stand up fighting with his feet AND hands, all while using a form that he is already very comfortable with. As you mention, the fight will eventually go to the ground, so that's where the BJJ comes in at. He chose that himself, and seems to enjoy it. I will say that BJJ is tough to learn, or at least it will take years and years of training to master it. I'm glad I got him into it while he is still young.
That's awesome. I hope my girls follow in your son's footsteps!
Actually there are 2 federations in TKD. A friend of mine is taking his black belt in April and he has told me and I have seen a couple tourneys that don't allow any head strikes and punching really doesn't count even if you connect to the body by rule it should count 1 point. In reality they don't count it or teach it. This is Olympic style what the heck TKD. The other federation ITF encourages head strikes and is more tuned to self defense. It looks a lot like kick boxing to me http://youtu.be/oDJXCkIL9UQ
Thanks EPLF. I didn't know that they had an offshoot that used their hands. But still, it's just not in the same universe regarding brutality for a variety of reasons.
The TKD kick generally has many more moving parts than the MT kick, of which there are generally only two. Look at the back foot in the thai round house to see how much torque they generate by foot placement holding off before they release. The difference is profound.
Even in the TKD branch that allows the use of hands, they stop them when they go into the clinch. That clinch, man, it's the most brutal stand up style of fighting in the World. Virtually every MMA fighter who comes from a non-boxing style adopts MT because of this.
Just look at these two videos to see how absolutely brutal it really is. In the first one start at about the 5:45 mark and just shake your head. It's some scary (bleep).
In the second one, notice how the elbows and knees are used. TKD has nothing like it and for me, with my build, basically the same height and build as Mark Wahlberg, it's where I go in my sparring, and where I would go if I absolutely HAD to fight someone. Not that I ever want to fight someone again. It's just too dangerous.
Yeah I get to see a lot of Muay Thai, living in Thailand there are a lot of local shows and many televised matches. What comes to me is that Muay Thai like many other disciplines can be pretty doctrinaire. If you watch the younger, non elite fighters you will see an emphasis on kicking and very little effective hand strikes. A lot of front kicks and kicks to the lower leg and thigh. When they close the gap they generally grasp behind the head in order to get leverage for knees to the body and to defend against elbows.
Almost always if one guy is a better hand striker they will win. I think that this is because hand striking is taught last and the younger non elite fighters don't have as much experience with it. However as with any doctrinaire discipline, techniques that are not taught are difficult to defend against. In some other thread I posted a link to this guy Cyrus Washington. He was fighting out of Phuket Thailand for a while training in Muay Thai and fighting Muay Thai fighters. He had a tremendous record against elite Muay Thai fighters. His background was Black Belt TKD, karate, and boxing. As a 48 year old he was beating guys many years his junior because he could bring stuff to the table that they just didn't train for and thus had no defense for like the spinning back kick, which was one of his signature KO moves. He won some big tourney a few years ago in Myanmar with all the best Muay Thai fighters in the world. Nobody was ready for Black Dynamite. Check it out here. http://youtu.be/MYZ9u8AwtEs
edit: I can't believe that the abbreviation for World Taekwando Federation was changed to what the heck.
Thanks for the link EPLF. Watching that clip plus some other footage of Washington, it seems that with the exception of that devastating spinning back kick, and his boxing technique, which is more Western in nature, he fights pretty much like a MT guy. Certainly the majority of his kicks are the low roundhouse of the MT fighter and his use of knees is extensive. I don't think he does much with his elbows though. Interesting stuff. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
They're located in Phuket and I believe each camp is good since they can accommodate to different training programs such as MMA, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jit jitsu, etc.
My friend who is taking his black belt in TKD next month is going to go train in a gym in Ubon Ratchatani for Muay Thai. It's a lot cheaper than Phuket to live there while training and the gym is foreigner frIendly legacy gym
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