John Oliver destroys the NCAA
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Drifts wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
While I fully support the notion that college athletes should be paid, the implementation of it comes with a ton of questions. Do you just pay athletes in the revenue generating sports? Does Jameis Winston make as much as the 3rd string kicker? Do you put a cap on what each school can pay, so mid-majors aren't unduly punished? Answering the question of whether or not athletes should be paid for generating nearly $1B in annual revenue (duh) is only the beginning.


these questions are the reasons why this will never happen. it just doesn't make sense. if we want student athletes to be paid, then it would be better for those who want to be paid to jump straight to the NBDL... it's the proper "school" for NBA aspirants.

but then, there are other kids who would actually want to be educated and might want to take advantage of the free education being offered for student athletes.


If the NBDL paid a good salary, then they could make a good living and could afford to go to college in the off season.


Problem is the d-league doesn't pay well. The top salary is $28k and the salary cap per team is something like $180,000. I don't see the NBA taking a financial hit and losing more money by jacking up D league salaries anytime soon. I've seen no indication the league really wants to get in the player development business; if anything, the league would prefer for players to have to stay in college longer.

A player simply isn't worth as much in the d league as he is in college, because the d league doesn't have the same infrastructure or fan base.


Oh, I know. Why would they want to invest when the NCAA does it for them for free? But, if the NBA does raise the age limit, and the NCAA doesn't do anything about compensation, then I think we'll see more players going to Europe instead of college.


I think the number of players who opt for Europe will remain relatively small. It's a huge adjustment for a player, especially if he goes to a place where English isn't the first language. My guess is players will just stay an extra year in college, except for those who are academically ineligible.

You have to remember only about 40 college players enter the NBA in a any given year -- it's a really small universe of players. And if a few of them play in Europe rather than college, I doubt that would be a big deal to the NBA.


Playing ball in a foreign country is a hard adjustment, thats why a lot of ex-NBA players don't last. They are used to the NBA lifestyle and travel accommodations. I think the guys who end up doing well overseas are the ones who have nothing to fall back on, no money and/or nothing to lose.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
Bad post because you do not agree. That's the way of the world. Enjoy your paid college athlete and everything being fair in life. Maybe one day everyone in here will see Santa Claus coming down the chimney on Christmas night.


Wow, you really told us off!

Oliver Reed wrote:
Remember this too, for the Pulitzer Prize winner in literature replies. No one is putting a gun to their heads and making them sign letters of intent. You think it's so horrible, then don't do it.


It's not compulsory, so it must be fair. Gotcha.

Seriously, though, this is the sort of argument that is breaking down in the legal system. Whether it be the antitrust laws, or the labor laws, or state tort laws (in the case of kids who get hurt while playing NCAA sports), the pressure is mounting on the system. How do you run a multi-billion dollar industry under the pretense that the workers are student-athletes?

Imagine a manufacturing company that pays a dollar an hour and kicks injured workers to the curb. Then the company says "no one is putting a gun to your head" and "You think it's so horrible, then don't do it." This could never happen, of course, because we have minimum wage laws, job site safety laws, and workers compensation laws. Yet some people would make the same arguments about college athletes who are the workers in a billion dollar industry.

Even if the legal challenges fail in the short run, they have exposed the hypocrisy of the system. Personally, I expect the reforms to come from within and not from without, though part of the motivation will be to preempt the legal issues. The cost of attendance model is the first step on the path.

I don't foresee a scenario in which college athletes have agents and negotiated salaries, etc. That would sink the ship of college sports. But I do believe that we are going to see a system in which football players don't have to commit petty crimes or take money from boosters just to eat or to be able to take a girl to the movies. That's the other side of the equation: the big schools want to get away from that, too. The NCAA and its amateurism rules are caught in the middle, and they are slowly losing the war.

Oliver Reed wrote:
Maybe all those doctors who have to go thru 10 years of school and residency before they can make money in their profession should complain about how the medical world makes brillions in drugs and medical devices, why can't they get a piece while they work at hospitals that make money while they work for nothing or very little.


You do realize that doctors get paid during their residencies, right? No, I guess you don't. Anyway, what's the connection between young doctors and the profits of pharmaceutical companies? Wait, never mind. I think you ought to stay away from tricky things like analogies.


Might want to read a little more buddy boy. Also, playing message board tough guy with all your soliloquies hold as much water as star wars fans complaining about George Lucas after they buy every prequel box set that comes out.

You and what looks like a lot in here live in a dream world where everything has to be perfect or there is some conspiracy or scam that is taking down the little man. You wanna be a tough guy internet boy? You wanna FIGHT for the little man, do this then, DON'T WATCH. YAH! Don't watch. Put your balls where your eyes are and don't watch if there is SUCH AN INJUSTICE in collegiate sports. ONLY then, the TV money will dwindle and all those huge ESPN contracts will go away, lessening the pockets for all these schools. Yes, simple supply and demand. For the People, by the people. Don't watch if you do not want to support the travesty of billions of dollars going to rich prick presidents of universities off the back of "student athletes".

BUT remember, if you do watch, even for a minute, YOU have lost all credibility. I'm sure you are smart enough to recognize that.........
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject:

It's Temecula time in here.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject:

Oliver Reed wrote:
Might want to read a little more buddy boy. Also, playing message board tough guy with all your soliloquies hold as much water as star wars fans complaining about George Lucas after they buy every prequel box set that comes out.

You and what looks like a lot in here live in a dream world where everything has to be perfect or there is some conspiracy or scam that is taking down the little man. You wanna be a tough guy internet boy? You wanna FIGHT for the little man, do this then, DON'T WATCH. YAH! Don't watch. Put your balls where your eyes are and don't watch if there is SUCH AN INJUSTICE in collegiate sports. ONLY then, the TV money will dwindle and all those huge ESPN contracts will go away, lessening the pockets for all these schools. Yes, simple supply and demand. For the People, by the people. Don't watch if you do not want to support the travesty of billions of dollars going to rich prick presidents of universities off the back of "student athletes".

BUT remember, if you do watch, even for a minute, YOU have lost all credibility. I'm sure you are smart enough to recognize that.........


Nevermind the poor argumentation, but in the dream world that I apparently live in, calling another grown man "boy" is not okay. Take a few days off.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
It's Temecula time in here.




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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:14 pm    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
It's Temecula time in here.





YES!
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Oliver Reed wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
Bad post because you do not agree. That's the way of the world. Enjoy your paid college athlete and everything being fair in life. Maybe one day everyone in here will see Santa Claus coming down the chimney on Christmas night.


Wow, you really told us off!

Oliver Reed wrote:
Remember this too, for the Pulitzer Prize winner in literature replies. No one is putting a gun to their heads and making them sign letters of intent. You think it's so horrible, then don't do it.


It's not compulsory, so it must be fair. Gotcha.

Seriously, though, this is the sort of argument that is breaking down in the legal system. Whether it be the antitrust laws, or the labor laws, or state tort laws (in the case of kids who get hurt while playing NCAA sports), the pressure is mounting on the system. How do you run a multi-billion dollar industry under the pretense that the workers are student-athletes?

Imagine a manufacturing company that pays a dollar an hour and kicks injured workers to the curb. Then the company says "no one is putting a gun to your head" and "You think it's so horrible, then don't do it." This could never happen, of course, because we have minimum wage laws, job site safety laws, and workers compensation laws. Yet some people would make the same arguments about college athletes who are the workers in a billion dollar industry.

Even if the legal challenges fail in the short run, they have exposed the hypocrisy of the system. Personally, I expect the reforms to come from within and not from without, though part of the motivation will be to preempt the legal issues. The cost of attendance model is the first step on the path.

I don't foresee a scenario in which college athletes have agents and negotiated salaries, etc. That would sink the ship of college sports. But I do believe that we are going to see a system in which football players don't have to commit petty crimes or take money from boosters just to eat or to be able to take a girl to the movies. That's the other side of the equation: the big schools want to get away from that, too. The NCAA and its amateurism rules are caught in the middle, and they are slowly losing the war.

Oliver Reed wrote:
Maybe all those doctors who have to go thru 10 years of school and residency before they can make money in their profession should complain about how the medical world makes brillions in drugs and medical devices, why can't they get a piece while they work at hospitals that make money while they work for nothing or very little.


You do realize that doctors get paid during their residencies, right? No, I guess you don't. Anyway, what's the connection between young doctors and the profits of pharmaceutical companies? Wait, never mind. I think you ought to stay away from tricky things like analogies.


Might want to read a little more buddy boy. Also, playing message board tough guy with all your soliloquies hold as much water as star wars fans complaining about George Lucas after they buy every prequel box set that comes out.

You and what looks like a lot in here live in a dream world where everything has to be perfect or there is some conspiracy or scam that is taking down the little man. You wanna be a tough guy internet boy? You wanna FIGHT for the little man, do this then, DON'T WATCH. YAH! Don't watch. Put your balls where your eyes are and don't watch if there is SUCH AN INJUSTICE in collegiate sports. ONLY then, the TV money will dwindle and all those huge ESPN contracts will go away, lessening the pockets for all these schools. Yes, simple supply and demand. For the People, by the people. Don't watch if you do not want to support the travesty of billions of dollars going to rich prick presidents of universities off the back of "student athletes".

BUT remember, if you do watch, even for a minute, YOU have lost all credibility. I'm sure you are smart enough to recognize that.........


Boy you really showed him didn't you....
Calling a poster names when you fail to provide a rebuttal just shows that you've lost this argument....
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject:

Oliver Reed wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
Bad post because you do not agree. That's the way of the world. Enjoy your paid college athlete and everything being fair in life. Maybe one day everyone in here will see Santa Claus coming down the chimney on Christmas night.


Wow, you really told us off!

Oliver Reed wrote:
Remember this too, for the Pulitzer Prize winner in literature replies. No one is putting a gun to their heads and making them sign letters of intent. You think it's so horrible, then don't do it.


It's not compulsory, so it must be fair. Gotcha.

Seriously, though, this is the sort of argument that is breaking down in the legal system. Whether it be the antitrust laws, or the labor laws, or state tort laws (in the case of kids who get hurt while playing NCAA sports), the pressure is mounting on the system. How do you run a multi-billion dollar industry under the pretense that the workers are student-athletes?

Imagine a manufacturing company that pays a dollar an hour and kicks injured workers to the curb. Then the company says "no one is putting a gun to your head" and "You think it's so horrible, then don't do it." This could never happen, of course, because we have minimum wage laws, job site safety laws, and workers compensation laws. Yet some people would make the same arguments about college athletes who are the workers in a billion dollar industry.

Even if the legal challenges fail in the short run, they have exposed the hypocrisy of the system. Personally, I expect the reforms to come from within and not from without, though part of the motivation will be to preempt the legal issues. The cost of attendance model is the first step on the path.

I don't foresee a scenario in which college athletes have agents and negotiated salaries, etc. That would sink the ship of college sports. But I do believe that we are going to see a system in which football players don't have to commit petty crimes or take money from boosters just to eat or to be able to take a girl to the movies. That's the other side of the equation: the big schools want to get away from that, too. The NCAA and its amateurism rules are caught in the middle, and they are slowly losing the war.

Oliver Reed wrote:
Maybe all those doctors who have to go thru 10 years of school and residency before they can make money in their profession should complain about how the medical world makes brillions in drugs and medical devices, why can't they get a piece while they work at hospitals that make money while they work for nothing or very little.


You do realize that doctors get paid during their residencies, right? No, I guess you don't. Anyway, what's the connection between young doctors and the profits of pharmaceutical companies? Wait, never mind. I think you ought to stay away from tricky things like analogies.


Might want to read a little more buddy boy. Also, playing message board tough guy with all your soliloquies hold as much water as star wars fans complaining about George Lucas after they buy every prequel box set that comes out.

You and what looks like a lot in here live in a dream world where everything has to be perfect or there is some conspiracy or scam that is taking down the little man. You wanna be a tough guy internet boy? You wanna FIGHT for the little man, do this then, DON'T WATCH. YAH! Don't watch. Put your balls where your eyes are and don't watch if there is SUCH AN INJUSTICE in collegiate sports. ONLY then, the TV money will dwindle and all those huge ESPN contracts will go away, lessening the pockets for all these schools. Yes, simple supply and demand. For the People, by the people. Don't watch if you do not want to support the travesty of billions of dollars going to rich prick presidents of universities off the back of "student athletes".

BUT remember, if you do watch, even for a minute, YOU have lost all credibility. I'm sure you are smart enough to recognize that.........


"Tough guy Internet boy"?
"Put your balls where your eye ares"?
"message board tough guy"?

What, did Mickey Spillane come back to life and discover the iPad?
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kaoss128
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject:

Perfect example of why these players deserve to be paid. Matt Stainbrook is the best player on Xavier and has helped lead them to the Sweet 16. Helping bring in millions of dollars to the school. Matt is in his 5th year and getting his MBA where tuition is about 14k. Meanwhile his brother is a walk on with the team and his undergrad tuition is 40k. So Matt gave up his scholarship to his little brother since his tuition was cheaper. Dude is the best player on the team and works as an Uber driver on the side to help pay his bills.

Link
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject:

kaoss128 wrote:
Perfect example of why these players deserve to be paid. Matt Stainbrook is the best player on Xavier and has helped lead them to the Sweet 16. Helping bring in millions of dollars to the school. Matt is in his 5th year and getting his MBA where tuition is about 14k. Meanwhile his brother is a walk on with the team and his undergrad tuition is 40k. So Matt gave up his scholarship to his little brother since his tuition was cheaper. Dude is the best player on the team and works as an Uber driver on the side to help pay his bills.

Link


Heard about this today...Nobody expects to pay these guys millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars, but the fact that this guy is working a job, playing basketball, practicing and attending classes, meanwhile the NCAA uses the joke of a term called student-athletes so they don't have to compensate these players, while they are getting $800 million per year from their TV deal....
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject:

kaoss128 wrote:
Perfect example of why these players deserve to be paid. Matt Stainbrook is the best player on Xavier and has helped lead them to the Sweet 16. Helping bring in millions of dollars to the school. Matt is in his 5th year and getting his MBA where tuition is about 14k. Meanwhile his brother is a walk on with the team and his undergrad tuition is 40k. So Matt gave up his scholarship to his little brother since his tuition was cheaper. Dude is the best player on the team and works as an Uber driver on the side to help pay his bills.

Link


That's just (bleep), to be honest. Anyone helping to prop up the bloated university system should be paid. There's a HUGE amount of money flowing through big colleges, it's just all ending up in the wrong places.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Oliver was "on one". But parts of what he said made sense to me.

After this March Madness, I'm done watching D1 collegiate sports, permanently. Even if the Lakers lose the pick and I wanna study who the lakers should get next year.
Specifically I'm done watching NCAA men's basketball and football. Those are the money makers, and those are the players who aren't getting paid for their likeness.

I know, one viewer tuning out won't make a difference. But I feel like a hypocrite otherwise. And the current non-payable "student athlete" designation the NCAA uses makes me sick.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
One of the many legal rackets in America

damn. so true it hurts.
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