30 for 30 Christian Laetnner
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject:

carlosLisboa wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
carlosLisboa wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
...
Anyway...the title of documentary is genius. Christian Laettner was the embodiment of the snobby elitist, and the disdain for him had different undertones amongst minorities, in a racially charged America that was highlighted by (but certainly not limited to) the ongoing trial of the officers in the Rodney King beating. He personified white privilege and inequity. I didn't know a single black or hispanic dude that followed basketball that ...


Funny part is that he came from a lower middle class background, and had to clean the facilities of a prep school to be a student there.
That makes him a nouveau-riche.

It leaves the idea he was the icon of Duke culture.

I never liked him, and truly hate (not his "fault") USA BB having picked him instead of Shaq to pay in Barcelona.

He was a just above average player, though the all star selection was deserved. I have my doubts on his dedication to work out and overall conditioning.


An underemphasized point they made was that Danny Ferry being there directly before him (and they were teammates as freshman and senior), added to the effect. Ferry WAS an annoying guy. He just wasn't as good a player as Laettner was and thus incapable of pissing people off who simply wanted Duke to lose.



The difference is that Danny Ferry wisely kept his head and mouth low, when he proved to be a bust in his first season in Cleveland. One must recall he refused to play for the Clippers after being drafted (arrogant b @ st @ rd), and David Falk got him a fat contract in Rome. Eventually he became a good role player, as oversized outside shooter.

A memory about Laettner's arroagnce just popped.
In his second season (wolves) they beat the Bucks for tehir 1st win after 5 losses.
Laettner's was quote saying something like
"Now all we need is a win against a good team."


Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Can't wait to watch this on DVR. I'm not prone to nostalgia (quite the opposite), but this was right at the end of the Golden Era of College Basketball. This was still during the days when declaring prior to the completion of your junior year was nearly unheard of. Today you have teams that are led by talented youngsters or experienced veterans, but rarely both. I'm glad that kids are getting their money ASAP, but college basketball has suffered, and you'll never see teams like those again. For those of you who aren't old enough to remember these teams, imagine how good this year's Kentucky team would be if they stayed together for 3 years. That's what Duke & UNLV were like in the early 90's.

Anyway...the title of documentary is genius. Christian Laettner was the embodiment of the snobby elitist, and the disdain for him had different undertones amongst minorities, in a racially charged America that was highlighted by (but certainly not limited to) the ongoing trial of the officers in the Rodney King beating. He personified white privilege and inequity. I didn't know a single black or hispanic dude that followed basketball that didn't hate his guts. Not one.

When I heard the title of this, I laughed and thought "brilliant"! It's a really interesting topic, time, and place to explore. Can't wait to watch it.


Spoilers: He's still unapologetic.

Like theassociation, I've grown to like him more after watching this. Who doesn't like a guy that trolls his own teammates!?



True. I don't hate him anymore. Hell, he reminds me a lot of Kobe in some ways. The film was good stuff.


In retrospect, seeing those battles makes you kinda wax nostalgic about that era. That doc needed to be made to explain to the youger fans why they've heard about Laettner so many times. It's gotta be confusing when they look for info on him from his pro career. He did live up to the hype in college, can't deny him that. I think that only added to the hate, as he himself understood. In a weird way, it's a good thing to have guys like that which draw animosity out of you the viewer. Makes the game more interesting when there's a villain (a "sports villain" at least). He wasn't even on Laimbeer territory, but for wuss Duke ball, he was good enough. They said at the end that he was the template for future Duke stars that drew the ol' ire from the fans, but that was the only bs in the doc. Carlos Boozer was not even interesting enough to hate, the opposing fans only wished he was. Laettner almost deserves some bizarro appreciation for being a d-ck, hahaha. It was good TV. That was a badass pass and shot. That play had a Zapruder effect to it as one of the commentors basically stated. You knew where you were when you saw it.

Btw, Don D: Yeah, Obama watched it. He mentioned it on a bit where he was showing his Presidential bracket. If the LoFW watched it, how can you say no?


Not to mention he played during a time when college basketball was at its peak....this was before the NBA started allowing high schoolers into the league. So college basketball careers like Laettner will probably never be seen ever again. The guy basically had an MJ like career in college. Broke school records and NCAA tournament records, went to 4 consecutive Final Fours. Won 2 championships in college. Made memorable buzzer beating shots.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:40 am    Post subject:

Carlos wrote:


A memory about Laettner's arroagnce just popped.
In his second season (wolves) they beat the Bucks for tehir 1st win after 5 losses.
Laettner's was quote saying something like "Now all we need is a win against a good team."


K. Bee wrote:

......Gotta love it!


I hate to say, Carlos, that I actually gotta like that comment. That has undertones of both Shaq and Kobe AND Phil (God knows, Phil...). EG: Lakers having a boring back-2-back with the Clipps, Shaq says, "Boring opponent, boring game." I get what you're saying tho. It's both arrogant, but kinda good arrogant.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:40 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Carlos wrote:


A memory about Laettner's arroagnce just popped.
In his second season (wolves) they beat the Bucks for tehir 1st win after 5 losses.
Laettner's was quote saying something like "Now all we need is a win against a good team."


K. Bee wrote:

......Gotta love it!


I hate to say, Carlos, that I actually gotta like that comment. That has undertones of both Shaq and Kobe AND Phil (God knows, Phil...). EG: Lakers having a boring back-2-back with the Clipps, Shaq says, "Boring opponent, boring game." I get what you're saying tho. It's both arrogant, but kinda good arrogant.


Hi, I like it, and would agree 100% if the Wolves didn't suck back then

Nowadays sporys pseudo-humility is boring (and somewhat cowardish). It gets worse in european soccer.
I love to read trash-talk stories from the 80s (surelly no sound recording risk), about Bird, MJ, etc.
The whole drama about Mutombo waving his finger after serving a block was disgusting.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:30 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:41 am    Post subject:

Funny thing is Laettner is probably better suited for today's NBA than the 1990s, post-centric big man teams. He'd be a stretch big man, a glorified Frank Kaminsky (minus the defense).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Funny thing is Laettner is probably better suited for today's NBA than the 1990s, post-centric big man teams. He'd be a stretch big man, a glorified Frank Kaminsky (minus the defense).


I'd draft him with the 4th or 5th pick just for the potential backstage Lakers quotes. Also cause he would totally troll carefree dudes like Hill and Swag all day.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Funny thing is Laettner is probably better suited for today's NBA than the 1990s, post-centric big man teams. He'd be a stretch big man, a glorified Frank Kaminsky (minus the defense).


I'd draft him with the 4th or 5th pick just for the potential backstage Lakers quotes. Also cause he would totally troll carefree dudes like Hill and Swag all day.


Kobe/Laettner? We'd be the most hated team in the NBA...easily.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Funny thing is Laettner is probably better suited for today's NBA than the 1990s, post-centric big man teams. He'd be a stretch big man, a glorified Frank Kaminsky (minus the defense).


I'd draft him with the 4th or 5th pick just for the potential backstage Lakers quotes. Also cause he would totally troll carefree dudes like Hill and Swag all day.


Kobe/Laettner? We'd be the most hated team in the NBA...easily.


Man that'd be fun though! Rather be hated on than be a joke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.


Yeah, for a 7-8 year stretch, he was averaging 16-18 ppg/ 7-8.5 rpg / 2-4.5 apg in the NBA.

He wasn't an all-star in those days by any stretch but he was having to play PF/C against the likes of the beasts in the paint of the 90's. He'd eat the vast majority of the "big" men of today for breakfast. Guarantee he'd be a 20/10 guy today.

I don't think people remember quite how skilled he was or if they were being honest with themselves even recall his game in the NBA. He'd be top 5 in the post among bigs right now. He'd by no means be a stretch 4.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.


Yeah, for a 7-8 year stretch, he was averaging 16-18 ppg/ 7-8.5 rpg / 2-4.5 apg in the NBA.

He wasn't an all-star in those days by any stretch but he was having to play PF/C against the likes of the beasts in the paint of the 90's. He'd eat the vast majority of the "big" men of today for breakfast. Guarantee he'd be a 20/10 guy today.

I don't think people remember quite how skilled he was or if they were being honest with themselves even recall his game in the NBA. He'd be top 5 in the post among bigs right now. He'd by no means be a stretch 4.


I actually think he's more suited for today's game as well. He was too small to play Center during that era, but in this day and age he'd be ideal. While he wasn't a "stretch" 4 or 5, he did have inside/outside ability, and range out to 20 feet. (which would likely be extended to the 3 point line in today's game)

He wasn't a bust in the NBA. Solid player, like you said. It's not like he was blessed with incredible physical ability or anything, at least in terms of NBA players.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.


Yeah, for a 7-8 year stretch, he was averaging 16-18 ppg/ 7-8.5 rpg / 2-4.5 apg in the NBA.

He wasn't an all-star in those days by any stretch but he was having to play PF/C against the likes of the beasts in the paint of the 90's. He'd eat the vast majority of the "big" men of today for breakfast. Guarantee he'd be a 20/10 guy today.

I don't think people remember quite how skilled he was or if they were being honest with themselves even recall his game in the NBA. He'd be top 5 in the post among bigs right now. He'd by no means be a stretch 4.


Yeah. I think in today's league he'd be something like a taller, angrier, more competitive Kevin Love.

At his height he could easily be a center today...he'd have about 3-4" on guys like Griffin and Love.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:33 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.


Yeah, for a 7-8 year stretch, he was averaging 16-18 ppg/ 7-8.5 rpg / 2-4.5 apg in the NBA.

He wasn't an all-star in those days by any stretch but he was having to play PF/C against the likes of the beasts in the paint of the 90's. He'd eat the vast majority of the "big" men of today for breakfast. Guarantee he'd be a 20/10 guy today.

I don't think people remember quite how skilled he was or if they were being honest with themselves even recall his game in the NBA. He'd be top 5 in the post among bigs right now. He'd by no means be a stretch 4.


I actually think he's more suited for today's game as well. He was too small to play Center during that era, but in this day and age he'd be ideal. While he wasn't a "stretch" 4 or 5, he did have inside/outside ability, and range out to 20 feet. (which would likely be extended to the 3 point line in today's game)

He wasn't a bust in the NBA. Solid player, like you said. It's not like he was blessed with incredible physical ability or anything, at least in terms of NBA players.


I think he was also brought down by the systems he played in. As he said in the documentary, Duke spoiled him. He never really had a system/coach/teammates that were up to his standard (in terms of how they all fit together).

I wonder how he would have done on a real championship squad. I mean the one time he was on a respectable team while healthy, he was an all star.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Mentally, he was a winner, so I can't blame him for wanting more.
But the NBA is a different animal altogether. Those individual flaws that are masked in college are exposed in the pros. Which is why not a lot of guys can successfully make the transition even though they succeeded in the lower levels.


Actually, he was a pretty good player in the NBA. He was a notch short of being a star, but he was above average. He was just never going to live up to his college career. The image of his smug face in a TWolves jersey made me smile.


Yeah, for a 7-8 year stretch, he was averaging 16-18 ppg/ 7-8.5 rpg / 2-4.5 apg in the NBA.

He wasn't an all-star in those days by any stretch but he was having to play PF/C against the likes of the beasts in the paint of the 90's. He'd eat the vast majority of the "big" men of today for breakfast. Guarantee he'd be a 20/10 guy today.

I don't think people remember quite how skilled he was or if they were being honest with themselves even recall his game in the NBA. He'd be top 5 in the post among bigs right now. He'd by no means be a stretch 4.


I actually think he's more suited for today's game as well. He was too small to play Center during that era, but in this day and age he'd be ideal. While he wasn't a "stretch" 4 or 5, he did have inside/outside ability, and range out to 20 feet. (which would likely be extended to the 3 point line in today's game)

He wasn't a bust in the NBA. Solid player, like you said. It's not like he was blessed with incredible physical ability or anything, at least in terms of NBA players.



Yeah. To me, if you inversed Pau's inside/outside ability to a degree, you'd end up with Laettner. Great face game and mid range with a solid/good post up game.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:03 pm    Post subject:

It was very well done and even though I don't like Duke, I always had respect for Laettner.

He really did have one of the greatest college careers ever, similar to Bill Walton for instance.

The thing I hated about Duke was all the flopping. Those mid-80s teams with Tommy Amaker and those guys stated it then Hurley, Thomas Hill, etc. spent most of the early 90s lying on their backs like fish out of water on every defensive possession.

It is a cheap and cowardly tactic and one Duke seems to have moved on from in recent years, thankfully.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Another great 30 for 30 Doc. Same can be said about 30 for 30 Requiem for the Big East and Fab Five. Keep em' coming
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject:

jdm43390 wrote:
Another great 30 for 30 Doc. Same can be said about 30 for 30 Requiem for the Big East and Fab Five. Keep em' coming


I remember watching that one as well....As somebody who doesn't know much about the college basketball rivalries in the northeast, it was pretty informative.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Another great 30 for 30. The best comment was that when sports hate crosses the line into real hate, it isn't as fun anymore (that's a paraphrase). "Hating" Laettner was fun. Wanting to see him fail was fun. Seeing him get his comeuppance in the NBA was fun. But I never really, seriously hated the man. He was sort of the Bill Laimbeer of college basketball.


Haven't watched it yet but I agree with your point.

Ferry, to me, was so over-hyped and that so absolutely played a strong role in my distaste for Duke and Laettner. The program just seemed to be the darling of the NCAA, the media and referees.

Then the Dream Team selection was just more gasoline on the flames for me.

I remember watching his first game against the Lakers and how I wanted to see him suck and at one point in the game, he fouled Vlade hard at the basket (unintentionally ... he just got caught out of position) and as Vlade was about to receive the ball from the ref to shoot the first of 2 FT's, I heard Laettner's voice ask, "Vlade, are you okay, buddy?" and I remember thinking to myself, "Damn, Christian ... don't make me like you less". Ha.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:09 pm    Post subject:

I wonder how different his career had been had Charlotte drafted him instead of Zo. Minnesota at the time was the black hole of the NBA. He would have stayed in the south where he became a legend and The Hive at the time was the best fan base in the NBA.
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