Zidane's head butt
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8750
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject:

skumbag, i try to understand you, even if the things you said about kobe in colorado are totally ridicolous and disgusting...
nobody says that racism doesn't exist... i understand if someone react very hard to a racial jab... but it's not that insulting the mother of a white player (as often happens with materazzi's mother, who died when he was a kid) is tolerable, while if you insult the mother of an algerian player, then you are racist... it doesn't work that way... today the mother of zidane said bring me the genitals of materazzi on a plate... that's a sort of ridicolus fatwa, it's verbal terrorism... i can have all the sympathy for suffering people, but their suffering doesn't justify their violence and terrorism... and by the way, i have to repeat, materazzi's insult wasn't racial at all...
and then again, during a game you give and receive shots and insults, it's normal... but if someone brings out of the game those shots and insults to whine, he's a coward... that's the rule of sports...
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brutella
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
casH wrote:

So you're saying its okay to use physical altercations to react to somebody's verbal comment about you? If I had your mind of resolving things I think I might be dead or in jail right now.
I have ethnic pride, I have family pride, sht I have pride period, but I would just laugh if I was Zidane, if hes that sort of human being why does his opinion matter to me? I'll just laugh at his comment and laugh in his face when I win the game.


I say people will react to events based on their experiences.

And are you saying it's ok to insult people verbally but not physically? Sorry pal, the minute you open your mouth to insult, an insult is an insult. A physical abuse, such as a punch, might be perceived as less damaging than a verbal one.

Like I said, for some people, winning a game might pale in comparison to a verbal insult. Can you possibly understand this concept?


Actually I've heard racial/prejudice remarks all the time, since high school and until now. I was like you "once", and I understand what you are saying. But I came to realize that by answering hate with hate is not going to solve anything. The best way is to just laugh about it, shrug it off and go about your business, because why should an opinion of a pea brained human being mean anything to me? It shouldn't and it doesn't.

I am not saying that verbal insult is okay, I'm saying responding to a verbal insult with an physical altercation is, because you'll just take a step back in your maturity level.

I sense that you still have some hate in your heart from past experiences that you need to let go of. I don't understand how you can hate a person for the color of their skin, their religion, or anything that makes them unique, I can't grasp that. That kind of hate is not something you are born with, its ignorance you absorbed growing up.

Maybe this is a concept "you" need to absorb, answering hate with hate equals to even greater hate, and the cycle continues.

Here's a quote you might remember and should remember:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-- MLK
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Trey
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
casH wrote:

So you're saying its okay to use physical altercations to react to somebody's verbal comment about you? If I had your mind of resolving things I think I might be dead or in jail right now.
I have ethnic pride, I have family pride, sht I have pride period, but I would just laugh if I was Zidane, if hes that sort of human being why does his opinion matter to me? I'll just laugh at his comment and laugh in his face when I win the game.


I say people will react to events based on their experiences.

And are you saying it's ok to insult people verbally but not physically? Sorry pal, the minute you open your mouth to insult, an insult is an insult. A physical abuse, such as a punch, might be perceived as less damaging than a verbal one.

Like I said, for some people, winning a game might pale in comparison to a verbal insult. Can you possibly understand this concept?


Nothing anyone says can affect you unless YOU GIVE IT THE POWER TO DO SUCH

If you are playing professional sports and you let words affect you then you are in the wrong line of work.

Greg LeMond... (bleep) his pants while racing to a Tour Victory ... crap going down his leg and on the bike.. you think he would get off the bike and fight you if you talked (bleep) about his (bleep).. His goal is to win..

That guy who talked smack to the french player didn't harm him in any way whatsoever.. you know what harmed him.. HIS OWN CHOICE TO USE VIOLENCE .. because... the italian got the results he wanted

Could you imagine how much trash Kobe heard during the trials in CO...

How much trash every elite NBA player hears from some of their opponents..

Jordan did all he could to break his opponent psychologically.. Athletes are physical freaks.. BUT.. without their MENTAL EDGE they aren't nearly as terrific
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Trey
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject:

casH wrote:


Here's a quote you might remember and should remember:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-- MLK



Those words make me cry.. they are so simple yet the most magnificient truth there is..
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Trey
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject:

casH wrote:


Here's a quote you might remember and should remember:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-- MLK



Those words make me cry.. they are so simple yet the most magnificient truth there is..
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brutella
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject:

Trey wrote:
skumbag wrote:
casH wrote:

So you're saying its okay to use physical altercations to react to somebody's verbal comment about you? If I had your mind of resolving things I think I might be dead or in jail right now.
I have ethnic pride, I have family pride, sht I have pride period, but I would just laugh if I was Zidane, if hes that sort of human being why does his opinion matter to me? I'll just laugh at his comment and laugh in his face when I win the game.


I say people will react to events based on their experiences.

And are you saying it's ok to insult people verbally but not physically? Sorry pal, the minute you open your mouth to insult, an insult is an insult. A physical abuse, such as a punch, might be perceived as less damaging than a verbal one.

Like I said, for some people, winning a game might pale in comparison to a verbal insult. Can you possibly understand this concept?


Nothing anyone says can affect you unless YOU GIVE IT THE POWER TO DO SUCH

If you are playing professional sports and you let words affect you then you are in the wrong line of work.

Greg LeMond... (bleep) his pants while racing to a Tour Victory ... crap going down his leg and on the bike.. you think he would get off the bike and fight you if you talked (bleep) about his (bleep).. His goal is to win..

That guy who talked smack to the french player didn't harm him in any way whatsoever.. you know what harmed him.. HIS OWN CHOICE TO USE VIOLENCE .. because... the italian got the results he wanted

Could you imagine how much trash Kobe heard during the trials in CO...

How much trash every elite NBA player hears from some of their opponents..

Jordan did all he could to break his opponent psychologically.. Athletes are physical freaks.. BUT.. without their MENTAL EDGE they aren't nearly as terrific


Can't put it any better.....
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8750
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject:

zidane himself said just now that materazzi insulted the women of his family... materazzi said i never insulted his mom... do the math, materazzi -as i already posted before- insulted zizou's sister... nothing racial... as a very wise man said, much ado about nothing...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject:

Glad he apologized and put this thing to rest. I'm not inclined to hold it against him as much as others even though I dont condone his actions since both he and matzerrati have a history of less than superb conduct. This whole thing should'nt have bieng suprising except for the fact that it was Zizou's last game and the world cup final, Both the instigator and the retaliator are in the wrong here...Italians(the ones I know at least) have to stop bieng so hypersentitive about thier soccer team, just b/c I think Francesco Totti is incredibly rude and possibly classless for spitting on a opponents face doesnt mean I think all italians are classless. i would say that about anyone who did the same thing
In terms of skill Zidane still is>>>>> than Matzeratti
On another note what's going on with juve and the whole tribunal thing?
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Last edited by bballfan4life on Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skumbag
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject:

casH wrote:

I sense that you still have some hate in your heart from past experiences that you need to let go of. I don't understand how you can hate a person for the color of their skin, their religion, or anything that makes them unique, I can't grasp that. That kind of hate is not something you are born with, its ignorance you absorbed growing up.



Let's back track. You care to point out to me where I'm hating people based on skin color or religion? Please do'nt put words in my mouth and then go on your grandios lecture on love and hate. Geesh.

And I have news for you. Nobobdy, not even the Pope, is immute to dishing out some hate now and then. Hate exists as a fact of life. I don't believe in some ideal utopian society where love is flowing with no ends like you portray. Show me a place on Earth where this love exists and I will move to it. You can't, can you.

And what I said (or meant to say) is that I can understand Zidane for his actions. Zidane is a person, and he has emotions flares up, the guy doesn't live in some social or utopian vacuum. Maybe had Materazzi been a better Catholic (he's Italian right?), he wouldn't have resorted to insulting in the first place? Dunno. What does the Bible say about insulting your fellow man anyway?? Just curious.
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brutella
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
casH wrote:

I sense that you still have some hate in your heart from past experiences that you need to let go of. I don't understand how a person can hate another person for the color of their skin, their religion, or anything that makes them unique, I can't grasp that. That kind of hate is not something you are born with, its ignorance you absorbed growing up.



Let's back track. You care to point out to me where I'm hating people based on skin color or religion? Please do'nt put words in my mouth and then go on your grandios lecture on love and hate. Geesh.

And I have news for you. Nobobdy, not even the Pope, is immute to dishing out some hate now and then. Hate exists as a fact of life. I don't believe in some ideal utopian society where love is flowing with no ends like you portray. Show me a place on Earth where this love exists and I will move to it. You can't, can you.


I wasn't saying you did, I was speaking of racists in general, sorry if I mis-worded the sentence.

I know that hate is a fact of life and there is no such thing as a utopian society. Not now, not ever. We do our best to keep the peace, but to say yeah "hate exists so except it" to use as excuse of your thinking is ignorant in itself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject:

casH wrote:

I know that hate is a fact of life and there is no such thing as a utopian society. Not now, not ever. We do our best to keep the peace, but to say yeah "hate exists so except it" to use as excuse of your thinking is ignorant in itself.


Fair enough. I have a question for you. Can you name one period or era in the history of human which hatred doesn't exist?
Do you think hate will go away anytime soon? How am I ignorant in accepting hate as a fact of life then?

But I think you're not understanding me here. Just because I choose to accept hate as a fact of life, it doesn't mean I will live my life like that, and it doesn't mean that I will ignore the concept of tolerance. But at the same time, I will not close my eyes and be oblivious to hate either.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
casH wrote:

I know that hate is a fact of life and there is no such thing as a utopian society. Not now, not ever. We do our best to keep the peace, but to say yeah "hate exists so except it" to use as excuse of your thinking is ignorant in itself.


Fair enough. I have a question for you. Can you name one period or era in the history of human which hatred doesn't exist?
Do you think hate will go away anytime soon? How am I ignorant in accepting hate as a fact of life then?

But I think you're not understanding me here. Just because I choose to
accept hate as a fact of life, it doesn't mean I will live my life like that, and it doesn't mean that I will ignore the concept of tolerance. But at the same time, I will not close my eyes and be oblivious to hate either.


Of course there isn't an era with zero hatred. Hate is in all of us, but like the above poster's point, its whether you let it affect you or not and let it come out. I'm not saying that you are ignorant because you except hate as a fact of life, because I too accept it. But my point is, hate is like a plague you don't use hate to extinguish hate.

Back to the subject, Zidane retaliated, that continued the cycle. It doesn't end until somebody swallow their pride and ego or whatever fuels their hate. You look at Kobe and Raja, I doubt those guys care much for what happened in Game 5 and they probably hardly remember it. Why? Because Kobe didn't retaliated, he brushed it off and continued playing. Had Kobe retaliated and fought Raja, I think it would be remembered a lot differently. Kobe, would be grilled for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Here's my take on the whole situation, based on the circumstances seen and revealed thus far:

Materazzi has admitted hurling an insult to Zidane. Athletes must hear insults all the time, so a simple one most likely would not/should not evoke a response like a headbutt. Zidane is supposedly very close to his parents, so much so that I read somewhere that he calls his mom every day. And it's well known that as the son of Algerian immigrants he has experienced a lot of racism in his life. Based on what alleged "expert" lip readers have publicized of the incident, an insult involving Zidane's mother and heritage at that point in time could understandably evoke a headbutt as reaction, if indeed this happened.

On the other hand, Materazzi has said he did not include Zidane's heritage and mother in any insult. As he had lost his own mother at an early age, it is believable that he would be sensitive in referring to mothers. Both Materazzi and Zidane have been involved in soccer misconduct in their careers and under the high pressure and stress of playing overtime in a World Cup final any player could lose control.

Based on what I "know" so far, I believe Zidane's side of the story. Do I condone his headbutt? No. Do I understand why he would do it, under the alleged circumstances publicized? Yes.

It would be interesting to see if Materazzi holds his own press conference and reveals the circumstances from his side to see if that clears up the picture. Unfortunately, this will probably become another case where we will never know the whole truth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject:

If the French won't join us in the next war against terrorism, maybe we'll just tell them that somebody called Zidane's sister a whore. Apparently, that caused quite a stir with the French population.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject:

NoMoreGame7s wrote:
If the French won't join us in the next war against terrorism, maybe we'll just tell them that somebody called Zidane's sister a whore. Apparently, that caused quite a stir with the French population.


That's a yellow card to you for that last comment!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Hey, it looks like others are taking the example of a hot-headed Frenchman who lacks self-control to heart...
http://www.break.com/index/graduates_from_the_zidane_school_of_problem_solving.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject:

http://www.addictinggames.com/zidaneheadbuttgame.html

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