It will be interesting for me to reflect back on this thread in the next few months and subsequent seasons (although in fairness, it already provides for some laughs). Nearly 50% of those who responded answered in the negative.
Curiously, few of those who indicated that they would decline to offer Kawhi the max. contract elected to explain their reasoning by way of comment ... I guess that's fortunate given the way everything is playing out on the court.
Well, I'm still hoping we manage to wrest Kawhi from the Spurs ... even if not, I also maintain my budding hope that Jamaal Franklin might evolve into our very own JV Kawhi if he gets a crack at Staples one of these days ...
It will be interesting for me to reflect back on this thread in the next few months and subsequent seasons (although in fairness, it already provides for some laughs). Nearly 50% of those who responded answered in the negative.
Curiously, few of those who indicated that they would decline to offer Kawhi the max. contract elected to explain their reasoning by way of comment ... I guess that's fortunate given the way everything is playing out on the court.
Well, I'm still hoping we manage to wrest Kawhi from the Spurs ... even if not, I also maintain my budding hope that Jamaal Franklin might evolve into our very own JV Kawhi if he gets a crack at Staples one of these days ...
Yeah. I was shocked at this too. I'd offer Kahwi MORE than the max if I could. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:59 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
the association wrote:
It will be interesting for me to reflect back on this thread in the next few months and subsequent seasons (although in fairness, it already provides for some laughs). Nearly 50% of those who responded answered in the negative.
Curiously, few of those who indicated that they would decline to offer Kawhi the max. contract elected to explain their reasoning by way of comment ... I guess that's fortunate given the way everything is playing out on the court.
Well, I'm still hoping we manage to wrest Kawhi from the Spurs ... even if not, I also maintain my budding hope that Jamaal Franklin might evolve into our very own JV Kawhi if he gets a crack at Staples one of these days ...
Yeah. I was shocked at this too. I'd offer Kahwi MORE than the max if I could.
I think a lot of no votes are simply from an understanding that San Antonio knows this too.
It will be interesting for me to reflect back on this thread in the next few months and subsequent seasons (although in fairness, it already provides for some laughs). Nearly 50% of those who responded answered in the negative.
Curiously, few of those who indicated that they would decline to offer Kawhi the max. contract elected to explain their reasoning by way of comment ... I guess that's fortunate given the way everything is playing out on the court.
Well, I'm still hoping we manage to wrest Kawhi from the Spurs ... even if not, I also maintain my budding hope that Jamaal Franklin might evolve into our very own JV Kawhi if he gets a crack at Staples one of these days ...
Yeah. I was shocked at this too. I'd offer Kahwi MORE than the max if I could.
Agree with the sentiment about being willing to offer him more than than max. if that was even a possibility under the current system (and it was sufficient to successfully dislodge him from San Antonio). Sadly, it's not (this year). And, of course, what's so startling about Kawhi's sustained play is the humble, stoic disposition that undergirds the entire package ... it's like Scottie Pippen had a child with Robert Parrish.
IMO, the only legitimate argument against max. $$$ for him is his "not ready for primetime" personality. His "no drama" persona translates into a truly exceptional competitor on the court, but it's actually a dismal quality for a franchise when it comes to the (generally more important) matter of economics. Professional athletes like Peyton Manning have been awkward before, only to blossom into economic swans over time. But I don't think I see that capacity in Kawhi, unfortunately. In fact, he makes Derrick Rose seem like Baron Davis on the personality scale ...
It will be interesting for me to reflect back on this thread in the next few months and subsequent seasons (although in fairness, it already provides for some laughs). Nearly 50% of those who responded answered in the negative.
Curiously, few of those who indicated that they would decline to offer Kawhi the max. contract elected to explain their reasoning by way of comment ... I guess that's fortunate given the way everything is playing out on the court.
Well, I'm still hoping we manage to wrest Kawhi from the Spurs ... even if not, I also maintain my budding hope that Jamaal Franklin might evolve into our very own JV Kawhi if he gets a crack at Staples one of these days ...
Yeah. I was shocked at this too. I'd offer Kahwi MORE than the max if I could.
Agree with the sentiment about being willing to offer him more than than max. if that was even a possibility under the current system (and it was sufficient to successfully dislodge him from San Antonio). Sadly, it's not (this year). And, of course, what's so startling about Kawhi's sustained play is the humble, stoic disposition that undergirds the entire package ... it's like Scottie Pippen had a child with Robert Parrish.
IMO, the only legitimate argument against max. $$$ for him is his "not ready for primetime" personality. His "no drama" persona translates into a truly exceptional competitor on the court, but it's actually a dismal quality for a franchise when it comes to the (generally more important) matter of economics. Professional athletes like Peyton Manning have been awkward before, only to blossom into economic swans over time. But I don't think I see that capacity in Kawhi, unfortunately. In fact, he makes Derrick Rose seem like Baron Davis on the personality scale ...
He has that persona of Tom "Shep" Shepard from Above the Rim.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:21 am Post subject:
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
Generally not an advocate of tampering, but the Lakers should consider all options to dislodge this guy from the Spurs ...
Kawhi is now #1 in Defensive Rating, #2 in RPM (behind only Curry) and #6 in WAR (behind only Harden, Curry, Paul, Lebron and AD), despite missing 18 games ...
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject:
the association wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too.
What makes you think 30 GMs all agree with each other?
I love Leonard as a player. I just don't think he can carry a franchise on his own. He's not an MJ, he's a Pippen. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too.
What makes you think 30 GMs all agree with each other?
I love Leonard as a player. I just don't think he can carry a franchise on his own. He's not an MJ, he's a Pippen.
I don't view the Finals MVP as some massive inflection point in Kawhi's career. His acceleration up the growth curve this year (beyond my very sanguine hopes) is the driver of my agitation to find a way to acquire him ... you have to admit that you're a little startled at how productive he's been over the past few months. You indicated that you just don't see him capable of creating his own shot (IIRC) and that's reason enough to pass on him as a max. player, but he certainly seemed quite capable of doing so in those Houston games last week (and against an above average defender in Ariza, no less). He scored pretty comfortably against GS with ease earlier in the week. And he also didn't seem to find difficulty creating his own shot in the NBA Finals against LeBron over the past two years, a guy known to be a pretty decent defender.
I think Chauncey was a great professional after those first few bumpy seasons, but frankly (and I may be wading into the deep end on this subject, as I'm not an expert and I obviously favor Kawhi a great deal), I'm seeing a player who is expanding TODAY far beyond anything Chaucey ever did on the court ... two strong NBA Finals performances head-up against the best player in the world (winning one Finals MVP in the process) is one thing ... but when did Chauncey ever impact play on either end of the court as well as Kawhi does right now, as a 23 year old in a very restrictive system?
Agreed on the 30 GMs ... I may have gone prisoner of the moment on that one, but I do think that the competent ones will clearly value Kawhi as a max. player (esp. in 2015, given the expansion of the cap around the corner) and would all take a run at him if his RFA status wasn't so confining ...
I think the fact that he's "only" capable of being a Pippen is remarkable ... I love his game and I would love to see him in P&G ...
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too. .
Billups was also a six-time all-star, so he fits your criteria for a max player.
He also made three all-NBA teams, and finished 5th and 6th in MVP voting a couple of years.
A better comparison, for your purposes, might be Cedric Maxwell.
He and Kawhi are the only Finals MVPs who didn't make any all-star teams. Of course, that might change for Kawhi, leaving poor Cedric having to be satisfied as a retired Celtics jersey
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
the association wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too. .
Billups was also a six-time all-star, so he fits your criteria for a max player.
He also made three all-NBA teams, and finished 5th and 6th in MVP voting a couple of years.
A better comparison, for your purposes, might be Cedric Maxwell.
He and Kawhi are the only Finals MVPs who didn't make any all-star teams. Of course, that might change for Kawhi, leaving poor Cedric having to be satisfied as a retired Celtics jersey
Thank you for a more proper comparison.
Honestly, I really really do like Kawhi. I'm not 100% sure that the Spurs would match a max contract. I just see him as a #2 or #3 option. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too. .
Billups was also a six-time all-star, so he fits your criteria for a max player.
He also made three all-NBA teams, and finished 5th and 6th in MVP voting a couple of years.
A better comparison, for your purposes, might be Cedric Maxwell.
He and Kawhi are the only Finals MVPs who didn't make any all-star teams. Of course, that might change for Kawhi, leaving poor Cedric having to be satisfied as a retired Celtics jersey
Thank you for a more proper comparison.
Honestly, I really really do like Kawhi. I'm not 100% sure that the Spurs would match a max contract. I just see him as a #2 or #3 option.
They will match, he's getting a rookie max deal, so it's not too crazy, plus the salary cap Is going up, no reason for them not to match..
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:11 am Post subject:
Vottomatic wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
the association wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No. I question his abilities as a shot creator/playmaker.
MAX money for All-Stars.
I can't see him better than a #2 or #3 option. He has the Stanley Johnson role for San Antonio but plays it so much better.
Thank goodness the 30 GMs around the league don't share your view that voting by fans are the best way to determine where the $$$ should be spent ... come late June when Kawhi is sitting with two Finals MVPs as a 24 year old, maybe you'll give up the ghost on this really untenable position.
You'd pay max for Chauncey Billups? He was a Finals MVP too. .
Billups was also a six-time all-star, so he fits your criteria for a max player.
He also made three all-NBA teams, and finished 5th and 6th in MVP voting a couple of years.
A better comparison, for your purposes, might be Cedric Maxwell.
He and Kawhi are the only Finals MVPs who didn't make any all-star teams. Of course, that might change for Kawhi, leaving poor Cedric having to be satisfied as a retired Celtics jersey
Thank you for a more proper comparison.
Honestly, I really really do like Kawhi. I'm not 100% sure that the Spurs would match a max contract. I just see him as a #2 or #3 option.
They will match, he's getting a rookie max deal, so it's not too crazy, plus the salary cap Is going up, no reason for them not to match..
There's no reason for them not to match, except it's a small market, and although Ginobili and Duncan are past their prime, took pay cuts. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
So are people seriously still arguing they wouldn't give a rookie max to Kahwai?
It seems like you and I have been running a two-man game on this front for the past few months, but I'm suspecting that we're going to see some double dutch nonsense on the radar any day now. As most of us know, detractors tend to dig their heels in when their opinions are being ridiculed and proven wrong in such convincing fashion, but Kawhi's trajectory is eventually going to win over all but the most trollish of rounding errors. As a fan of his since his freshman campaign at SDSU, he's exceeding even the most ambitious of hopes right now ...
I've obviously been very sanguine re: Kawhi's outlook, but I think I've also been pretty realistic about his consistency challenges and egregious personality deficit. That said, Matt Kelly Barnes and Jonathan Clay Redick ... pull yourselves together, you're being undone by the modern day Cornbread Maxwell! This 23 year old who plays no better than a #2 or #3 player, with no ability to create his own shot, FFS, is devouring your lunch!
(no hard feelings from me for those who dissent ... that's the beauty of basketball and life; we don't have to agree on anything, much less everything)
It's going to be a travesty when his 16.3m (1st year and increasing) rookie max will be further de-valued with the cap rise in 2016. He will be such a steal at a prorated 12-13m range. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Assuming Elfus has the fortitude to make the move and that he further understands to keep his head on a swivel (and the CBA was amenable to the following, which I'm not even sure is a possibility ... LC would know, I'm guessing), Kawhi should strongly consider pushing the initiative on something along the following lines:
1. One year deal (qualifying offer) with San Antonio
2. Significant organization-underwritten insurance policy against injury (serious to catastrophic)
3. Informal agreement (something better than Boozer's word with the previous Cavs ownership group) to sign a long-term near-max. deal upon the expansion of the salary cap in 2016, with a modest concession to offset the organization's cooperation and an additional offset against the cost of the insurance premium(s) ...
If San Antonio balks, opt for the qualifying offer, underwrite the policy yourself, and hit the UFA market next Summer for a massive payday ... at a minimum, he would have 12 more months to see what the Spurs have in store once the sun sets on the Duncan era before making his decision.
A #2 or #3 option who won defensive player of the year? Absolutely. Look at what he is doing for the Spurs. He is killing the Clippers and keeping the Spurs in the series. I'm speculating here but I think the Clippers would win this series easily if he wasn't playing. He looks like the best player on San Antonio right now.
He is the best player on a championship team and he is 23 years old.
Which is who they should be pursuing since The Brow isn't in any way available.
BTW Mike - I completely agree with you that Leonard is essentially today's Pippen - pretty much the perfect number 2 guy to have alongside a franchise player. But, in most scenarios with title winning teams, there's 2 or 3 guys that are considered top tier players by the entire league. We had Kobe and Pau making huge money along with several well paid role players in order to be title competitive just 5 and 6 years ago. The Spurs, Heat and Celtics all had their mega rosters as well.
Based on that along with the known increase in the cap limits coming, I wouldn't hesitate to offer Leonard a rookie-to-max full contract. He's not without flaws. But, he is a genuine talent that appears to just be scratching his real potential right now.
A bit off topic, but Anthony Davis and K-Leonard on the same starting 5 would be beastmode.
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