*** SPOILER ZONE ***Official Game of Thrones / A Song of Ice and Fire discussion thread (for BOOK readers)
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Christopher C
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
So, basically, GoT will be done before Winds is finished. Got it.


Yep. Unless he can write the last book in a year (not a chance in hell).

I started reading the books after I watched the first season anyway, and the first book was still an incredible read, so I'm not angry about the show ending before he ends the books.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject:

TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
So, basically, GoT will be done before Winds is finished. Got it.


Yep. Unless he can write the last book in a year (not a chance in hell).

I started reading the books after I watched the first season anyway, and the first book was still an incredible read, so I'm not angry about the show ending before he ends the books.


Me neither. I like the history and side plots as much as I do the main story - it will still be fulfilling. At this point, I am more concerned whether he will actually finish the series. As has been pointed out, he isn't exactly an image of health
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:18 pm    Post subject:

With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:37 am    Post subject:

Sons of the Harpy ... who the hell are these guys?!?!?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:17 am    Post subject:

KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Sons of the Harpy ... who the hell are these guys?!?!?


They were in the books. I think they were loyal to the merchants/ruling class that Daenerys ousted.

I do love how it seems they're condensing her scenes. I swear, it's unfathomable why she has such a huge following from the show. Her character is so comically one dimensional. I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the success of The Walking Dead. The book scenes during her rule were excruciating to slog through. Only Bran's was worse imo.


Question to you all. Did Jamie ever head to Dorne in the books? I can't for the life of me remember. I know Bronn is no longer there and I'm glad the showrunners brought Bronn back.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Question to you all. Did Jamie ever head to Dorne in the books? I can't for the life of me remember.


I don't think so. The storytelling in Dorne was all new characters, which is part of the reason why a lot people hated the fourth book. I remember Jamie going around the seven kingdoms up towards Riverrun, training with the executioner with no tongue.

It is really hard to remember all the little details from the books because there are so many in such a vast world, after years have passed, and then after watching an alternate telling with the show.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject:

TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Question to you all. Did Jamie ever head to Dorne in the books? I can't for the life of me remember.


I don't think so. The storytelling in Dorne was all new characters, which is part of the reason why a lot people hated the fourth book. I remember Jamie going around the seven kingdoms up towards Riverrun, training with the executioner with no tongue.

It is really hard to remember all the little details from the books because there are so many in such a vast world, after years have passed, and then after watching an alternate telling with the show.


Yeah, I read the books in a marathon end to end. Books 4 and 5 are especially cloudy to me. Too many new/bad characters and story arcs.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject:

TV spoiler alerts I guess.

Does Tyrion have greyscale at the end of the last book?

Is there some sort of greyscale dragon or dragonfire connection mentioned in the books?

The whole seeing dragons in whereever Tyrion and Mormont are - Tyrion never sees a dragon so far in the books does he? That was an exciting scene through to Mormont seeing his wrist at the end. Their surprise seeing Drogon if that was him was vivid.

Wouldn't Sansa want to punish that girl who pointed her to Theon mockingly?

Roose Bolton talks too much and is not the creepiest person in the world as in the books.

Stannis is more interesting than in the books
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Cutheon
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:11 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
TV spoiler alerts I guess.

Does Tyrion have greyscale at the end of the last book?

Is there some sort of greyscale dragon or dragonfire connection mentioned in the books?

The whole seeing dragons in whereever Tyrion and Mormont are - Tyrion never sees a dragon so far in the books does he? That was an exciting scene through to Mormont seeing his wrist at the end. Their surprise seeing Drogon if that was him was vivid.

Wouldn't Sansa want to punish that girl who pointed her to Theon mockingly?

Roose Bolton talks too much and is not the creepiest person in the world as in the books.

Stannis is more interesting than in the books


No.

Not sure what you mean.

They were in Valyria. I don't remember if he does. I also thought it was a beautiful scene. The dragons are so (bleep) cool, I get stoked every time they appear. Can't wait for them to wreak havoc later.

I'd have her killed.

"Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother."

Stannis is great. "Fewer."
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-


Battle hardened and always combat ready Unsullied getting massacred by rich brats with knives...
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-


Battle hardened and always combat ready Unsullied getting massacred by rich brats with knives...


Really sick of the Wormgreygaywhatever storyline. We get it. They are getting (bleep) now and so they aren't as awesome. Cool. But the fall from grace should not include, as you said, getting massacred by rich brats with knives.
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focus
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:50 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
rwongega wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-


Battle hardened and always combat ready Unsullied getting massacred by rich brats with knives...


Really sick of the Wormgreygaywhatever storyline. We get it. They are getting (bleep) now and so they aren't as awesome. Cool. But the fall from grace should not include, as you said, getting massacred by rich brats with knives.


I don't like the way the Unsullied are in the show at all. They are like superstar ninja warriors or a bunch of Bruce Waynes. In the show they have zero intimidation factor.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
focus wrote:
TV spoiler alerts I guess.

Does Tyrion have greyscale at the end of the last book?

Is there some sort of greyscale dragon or dragonfire connection mentioned in the books?

The whole seeing dragons in whereever Tyrion and Mormont are - Tyrion never sees a dragon so far in the books does he? That was an exciting scene through to Mormont seeing his wrist at the end. Their surprise seeing Drogon if that was him was vivid.

Wouldn't Sansa want to punish that girl who pointed her to Theon mockingly?

Roose Bolton talks too much and is not the creepiest person in the world as in the books.

Stannis is more interesting than in the books


No.

Not sure what you mean.


They were in Valyria. I don't remember if he does. I also thought it was a beautiful scene. The dragons are so (bleep) cool, I get stoked every time they appear. Can't wait for them to wreak havoc later.

I'd have her killed.

"Don't make me rue the day I sexual assaulted your mother."

Stannis is great. "Fewer."


I am trying to figure out if greyscale has something to do with dragons or dragonfire. In this episode, the greyscale guys are hanging out with Drogon in dragon country. I saw a picture of shireen somewhere and it looked like scales on her face. So made me wonder if greyscale is some sort of immunity or relation to dragons or their fire. I also thought Tyrion was infected but then it kind of went away or something. It's been a while since I read the book.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:09 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
focus wrote:
TV spoiler alerts I guess.

Does Tyrion have greyscale at the end of the last book?

Is there some sort of greyscale dragon or dragonfire connection mentioned in the books?

The whole seeing dragons in whereever Tyrion and Mormont are - Tyrion never sees a dragon so far in the books does he? That was an exciting scene through to Mormont seeing his wrist at the end. Their surprise seeing Drogon if that was him was vivid.

Wouldn't Sansa want to punish that girl who pointed her to Theon mockingly?

Roose Bolton talks too much and is not the creepiest person in the world as in the books.

Stannis is more interesting than in the books


No.

Not sure what you mean.


They were in Valyria. I don't remember if he does. I also thought it was a beautiful scene. The dragons are so (bleep) cool, I get stoked every time they appear. Can't wait for them to wreak havoc later.

I'd have her killed.

"Don't make me rue the day I sexual assaulted your mother."

Stannis is great. "Fewer."


I am trying to figure out if greyscale has something to do with dragons or dragonfire. In this episode, the greyscale guys are hanging out with Drogon in dragon country. I saw a picture of shireen somewhere and it looked like scales on her face. So made me wonder if greyscale is some sort of immunity or relation to dragons or their fire. I also thought Tyrion was infected but then it kind of went away or something. It's been a while since I read the book.


Well, this is all theory, but the idea goes that Targaryeans are immune to it - at some point, Dany interacts with greyscale folk, with zero fear, and her reasoning is essentially: I'm Valyrian/Targaryean. Viserys used to talk about how diseases were for the "common man," and it's been bandied about before that the Valyrian people were particularly healthy (i.e. not susceptible to common illnesses): that is, of course, until the end.

Iirc, in the book, Tyrion does not get greyscale but another fellow - the man who saved Tyrion - did. In the show it's Jorah, in the book someone else entirely. It was never clear if Tyrion did not get it because he was not touched, or if he did not get it because he is immune in some way.

We know Shireen is healthy because essentially the entire medical community came to her aid. As for Tyrion, one of my favorite bits of GoT speculation was that he was immune because he was actually part-Targ (the person had some pretty good reasons, but I think it's a major stretch in the end).

So, there does seem to be some connection - not sure how large.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Oh wow Tyrion a Targaryen...pretty juicy for speculation. They said his mom died at birth though so therefore known, so presumably it's the father that might have been Targaryen. Tywin definitely hated Tyrion maybe because his mom had an affair. Tywin must have been convinced Tyrion was his or he would have disowned him at least as a bastard if not have him killed. Why is it a stretch, the timing of his birth, happening well after Tywin married his mom? Hard to see any Targaryen Aerys or whoever coming to bump into Mrs. Tywin.

They sure are making a big deal of it in the show, and the show guys know more about what's coming up in future books so seems like foreshadowing.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
rwongega wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-


Battle hardened and always combat ready Unsullied getting massacred by rich brats with knives...


Really sick of the Wormgreygaywhatever storyline. We get it. They are getting (bleep) now and so they aren't as awesome. Cool. But the fall from grace should not include, as you said, getting massacred by rich brats with knives.


I don't like the way the Unsullied are in the show at all. They are like superstar ninja warriors or a bunch of Bruce Waynes. In the show they have zero intimidation factor.


I'm still stewing over how they did Barristan dirty in the show.

Doesn't help the intimidation factor when TV Grey Worm has the muscle definition of a toddler.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Oh wow Tyrion a Targaryen...pretty juicy for speculation. They said his mom died at birth though so therefore known, so presumably it's the father that might have been Targaryen. Tywin definitely hated Tyrion maybe because his mom had an affair. Tywin must have been convinced Tyrion was his or he would have disowned him at least as a bastard if not have him killed. Why is it a stretch, the timing of his birth, happening well after Tywin married his mom? Hard to see any Targaryen Aerys or whoever coming to bump into Mrs. Tywin.

They sure are making a big deal of it in the show, and the show guys know more about what's coming up in future books so seems like foreshadowing.


Tywin hates Aeres, not only for what he did to Jaime (forcing him to join the KingsGuard), and for the dirty he did to Cersei (essentially not choosing her to marry Rhaegar), but for a comment he made at Tywin's wedding night. As told by Varys to Dany, Aeres said: "it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished."

So, considering he was the Mad King, it's probable he took (forcefully) Tywins wife and is actually the father of Tyrion. As for his golden, Lannister locks - Tywin did marry a cousin aka another Lannister. Plus, Tywin has told Tyrion before "You are not my son." The simplest explanation (and that's usually the best one) is that he just hated Tyrion and never considered him his son. The fun one is that Tyrion really wasn't his son.

Yeah, as far as crazy theories go, that's definitely my favorite one

As for why it's a stretch, Aeres said that on Tywin's wedding night. Tyrion is the youngest child. Unless Aeres waited a long while, it's doubtful he did it

Also, if you are bored (as I often am), there is a lot of good speculation on reddit. This is a (fairer) explanation for why Tyrion never got greyscale: Link
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject:

^^ Damn, that reddit just sucked an hour out of me as it led me down a Googling rabbit hole.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
^^ Damn, that reddit just sucked an hour out of me as it led me down a Googling rabbit hole.


Crazy stuff. Nearly as addictive as wikipedia can be
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
focus wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
rwongega wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
rwongega wrote:
With all the changes the show is making compared to the books, I'm beginning to really distance the two as just separate entities. That said, I enjoy the books more.


The changes they've made thus far have been fantastic imo. Almost point for point from the subtle changes to keeping characters around longer I've been in agreement with.

Obviously, the books are a far richer experience but I'm solely talking about the changes.

-


Battle hardened and always combat ready Unsullied getting massacred by rich brats with knives...


Really sick of the Wormgreygaywhatever storyline. We get it. They are getting (bleep) now and so they aren't as awesome. Cool. But the fall from grace should not include, as you said, getting massacred by rich brats with knives.


I don't like the way the Unsullied are in the show at all. They are like superstar ninja warriors or a bunch of Bruce Waynes. In the show they have zero intimidation factor.


I'm still stewing over how they did Barristan dirty in the show.

Doesn't help the intimidation factor when TV Grey Worm has the muscle definition of a toddler.


Barristan was a legend in the books, and they did dismiss him too easily here. Grey Worm should look like a gladiator, instead looks like the kid you don't pick at the Y for a game.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
focus wrote:
Oh wow Tyrion a Targaryen...pretty juicy for speculation. They said his mom died at birth though so therefore known, so presumably it's the father that might have been Targaryen. Tywin definitely hated Tyrion maybe because his mom had an affair. Tywin must have been convinced Tyrion was his or he would have disowned him at least as a bastard if not have him killed. Why is it a stretch, the timing of his birth, happening well after Tywin married his mom? Hard to see any Targaryen Aerys or whoever coming to bump into Mrs. Tywin.

They sure are making a big deal of it in the show, and the show guys know more about what's coming up in future books so seems like foreshadowing.


Tywin hates Aeres, not only for what he did to Jaime (forcing him to join the KingsGuard), and for the dirty he did to Cersei (essentially not choosing her to marry Rhaegar), but for a comment he made at Tywin's wedding night. As told by Varys to Dany, Aeres said: "it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished."

So, considering he was the Mad King, it's probable he took (forcefully) Tywins wife and is actually the father of Tyrion. As for his golden, Lannister locks - Tywin did marry a cousin aka another Lannister. Plus, Tywin has told Tyrion before "You are not my son." The simplest explanation (and that's usually the best one) is that he just hated Tyrion and never considered him his son. The fun one is that Tyrion really wasn't his son.

Yeah, as far as crazy theories go, that's definitely my favorite one

As for why it's a stretch, Aeres said that on Tywin's wedding night. Tyrion is the youngest child. Unless Aeres waited a long while, it's doubtful he did it

Also, if you are bored (as I often am), there is a lot of good speculation on reddit. This is a (fairer) explanation for why Tyrion never got greyscale: Link


I really hate waiting for these book - I don't remember any of the history you wrote about. Thanks for the link. I wonder if maybe Cersei and Jamie are Targaryens then. They have ultra light hair and were born earlier.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
focus wrote:
Oh wow Tyrion a Targaryen...pretty juicy for speculation. They said his mom died at birth though so therefore known, so presumably it's the father that might have been Targaryen. Tywin definitely hated Tyrion maybe because his mom had an affair. Tywin must have been convinced Tyrion was his or he would have disowned him at least as a bastard if not have him killed. Why is it a stretch, the timing of his birth, happening well after Tywin married his mom? Hard to see any Targaryen Aerys or whoever coming to bump into Mrs. Tywin.

They sure are making a big deal of it in the show, and the show guys know more about what's coming up in future books so seems like foreshadowing.


Tywin hates Aeres, not only for what he did to Jaime (forcing him to join the KingsGuard), and for the dirty he did to Cersei (essentially not choosing her to marry Rhaegar), but for a comment he made at Tywin's wedding night. As told by Varys to Dany, Aeres said: "it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished."

So, considering he was the Mad King, it's probable he took (forcefully) Tywins wife and is actually the father of Tyrion. As for his golden, Lannister locks - Tywin did marry a cousin aka another Lannister. Plus, Tywin has told Tyrion before "You are not my son." The simplest explanation (and that's usually the best one) is that he just hated Tyrion and never considered him his son. The fun one is that Tyrion really wasn't his son.

Yeah, as far as crazy theories go, that's definitely my favorite one

As for why it's a stretch, Aeres said that on Tywin's wedding night. Tyrion is the youngest child. Unless Aeres waited a long while, it's doubtful he did it

Also, if you are bored (as I often am), there is a lot of good speculation on reddit. This is a (fairer) explanation for why Tyrion never got greyscale: Link


I really hate waiting for these book - I don't remember any of the history you wrote about. Thanks for the link. I wonder if maybe Cersei and Jamie are Targaryens then. They have ultra light hair and were born earlier.


GRRM needs to get busy. Upgrade that Wordstar 4.0 already.
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
focus wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
focus wrote:
Oh wow Tyrion a Targaryen...pretty juicy for speculation. They said his mom died at birth though so therefore known, so presumably it's the father that might have been Targaryen. Tywin definitely hated Tyrion maybe because his mom had an affair. Tywin must have been convinced Tyrion was his or he would have disowned him at least as a bastard if not have him killed. Why is it a stretch, the timing of his birth, happening well after Tywin married his mom? Hard to see any Targaryen Aerys or whoever coming to bump into Mrs. Tywin.

They sure are making a big deal of it in the show, and the show guys know more about what's coming up in future books so seems like foreshadowing.


Tywin hates Aeres, not only for what he did to Jaime (forcing him to join the KingsGuard), and for the dirty he did to Cersei (essentially not choosing her to marry Rhaegar), but for a comment he made at Tywin's wedding night. As told by Varys to Dany, Aeres said: "it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished."

So, considering he was the Mad King, it's probable he took (forcefully) Tywins wife and is actually the father of Tyrion. As for his golden, Lannister locks - Tywin did marry a cousin aka another Lannister. Plus, Tywin has told Tyrion before "You are not my son." The simplest explanation (and that's usually the best one) is that he just hated Tyrion and never considered him his son. The fun one is that Tyrion really wasn't his son.

Yeah, as far as crazy theories go, that's definitely my favorite one

As for why it's a stretch, Aeres said that on Tywin's wedding night. Tyrion is the youngest child. Unless Aeres waited a long while, it's doubtful he did it

Also, if you are bored (as I often am), there is a lot of good speculation on reddit. This is a (fairer) explanation for why Tyrion never got greyscale: Link


I really hate waiting for these book - I don't remember any of the history you wrote about. Thanks for the link. I wonder if maybe Cersei and Jamie are Targaryens then. They have ultra light hair and were born earlier.


GRRM needs to get busy. Upgrade that Wordstar 4.0 already.


Misery.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject:

i hated that theory, there shouldn't any more secret Targ except R+L=J.
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