Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:40 am Post subject:
All at 19 years old, you take Okafor and Towns over Bynum because, at that point, Bynum hadn't lost his baby weight yet. However, neither Okafor or Towns are physically capable of reaching Bynum's potential ceiling (i.e. if 2007-2008 Bynum moved forward with his career without injuries). That said, Bynum's career flamed out. As such, Towns and Okafor could have much better careers when all is said and done.
I just think its clear that once Bynum got into the same kind of shape Okafor and Towns are in now, he demonstrated a potential ceiling that neither Okafor or Towns have shown to date. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Bynum did not have an NBA body, which is why he was drafted so high. Sure he had the height, but he was pudgy and that lead people to question his work ethic. He also didn't have a lot of basketball experience, and had a knee surgery in high school. Which is why he fell as low as he did. Might have fallen further if not for the Lakers picking him there.
The reason why he was good is because he worked himself into better shape, and had fantastic length. He had a natural soft touch and received the best tutelage for years before actually getting to play.
These two kids coming into the nba do so with nba ready bodies, a lot of experience, and moves to show for it. You can expect that they will get better, especially if they are given the same care and attention that Bynum received, which one expects they will have.
crazy man. I wasn't even shooting on you, I'm seriously blown away at how old that saying is lmaooo
Actually the saying is not that old and matzo isn't exactly sliced bread. When first introduced machine sliced bread was a failure. People feared that the bread would dry out too soon. It wasn't till the introduction of the toaster that sliced bread actually became popular. This ends your useless bits of history for the day.
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject:
Cap's Elbow wrote:
Actually the saying is not that old and matzo isn't exactly sliced bread. When first introduced machine sliced bread was a failure. People feared that the bread would dry out too soon. It wasn't till the introduction of the toaster that sliced bread actually became popular. This ends your useless bits of history for the day.
Bynum was a one time all star. Okafor or Towns have the potential to be multiple time all star superstars.
Bynum somehow has gotten REALLY overrated here for the past couple days. Seriously.
Bynum was a one time all star due to health and playing with a better big man (gasol) which will mean less touches. Playing alongside kobe, again less touches.
Okafor and towns are further along then bynum was as a raw pile of doe. BUT, bynum was so smart he surpassed what most bigs would accomplish in that amount of time. And he did it after multiple serious leg injuries. That right there is phenomenal . I know a lot of fans think he was a childish idiot who didnt care. And that may have been the case. but i'm talking about his development and his skills. He was by far the best low post big guy in the nba at that time. He was also #2 or #3 defensive centers in the nba. We have to assume health when we make the comparisons because we know all bigs can get hurt and be done for good if you find out they have bad feet, bad knees, etc. we hope thats not the case with okafor or towns.
Bynum learned very quickly when training with kareem. Most bigs never get that much better. You still see dwight with his same game. You still see DJ with his same post game. You see most of these young bigs with their same game. Even after training with greats like hakeem or pat ewing. Only bynum came out shining after that kind of training and he was less of a player then all of those guys. So dont assume these guys should end up better then bynum. That may never happen.
Bynum did not have an NBA body, which is why he was drafted so high. Sure he had the height, but he was pudgy and that lead people to question his work ethic. He also didn't have a lot of basketball experience, and had a knee surgery in high school. Which is why he fell as low as he did. Might have fallen further if not for the Lakers picking him there.
The reason why he was good is because he worked himself into better shape, and had fantastic length. He had a natural soft touch and received the best tutelage for years before actually getting to play.
These two kids coming into the nba do so with nba ready bodies, a lot of experience, and moves to show for it. You can expect that they will get better, especially if they are given the same care and attention that Bynum received, which one expects they will have.
You can't expect that they will even get to bynum's peak level. You hope that will happen. This all has to do with work ethic and basketball iq. If they learn quickly and can apply what they learn as quickly as bynum. They should end up as good as him at his peak before the knees just died on him. If they are not that intelligent. They will never be as good as he was on both ends of the floor during his allstar season.
Bynum got burnt out at some point with the injuries. I always liked him and he was real. Told the truth. People say they want the truth but that's a lie. And he was tagged immature and reckless. Injuries derailed his career, nothing more to say otherwise he would still be playing now for the Lakers. _________________ Because we're better than you!
It's kind of silly to simply look at Bynum's numbers and say "sure, Okafor/Towns can do better". Bynum played next to two double-digit rebounders (Gasol/LO) and the NBA premier scorer in Kobe. His numbers on a perennial championship-contenting team do not reflect his talent.
I do think Bynum's immaturity hurt his career, but the injuries were what did him in, ultimately.
I remember Matt Smith talking on the radio about Bynum his 2nd year in the NBA - before he went down with the injury. He mentioned how no one had predicted just how far Bynum had progressed in 1 year. The league was genuinely shocked. And I remember the first time LA played Phoenix that year, how the opposing coaches were "in awe" of Bynum's talent.
We can only hope that at one time in his career, the guy we draft can be considered the #1/#2 best center in the NBA. That's what Drew was when he was healthy.
It's kind of silly to simply look at Bynum's numbers and say "sure, Okafor/Towns can do better". Bynum played next to two double-digit rebounders (Gasol/LO) and the NBA premier scorer in Kobe. His numbers on a perennial championship-contenting team do not reflect his talent.
I do think Bynum's immaturity hurt his career, but the injuries were what did him in, ultimately.
I remember Matt Smith talking on the radio about Bynum his 2nd year in the NBA - before he went down with the injury. He mentioned how no one had predicted just how far Bynum had progressed in 1 year. The league was genuinely shocked. And I remember the first time LA played Phoenix that year, how the opposing coaches were "in awe" of Bynum's talent.
We can only hope that at one time in his career, the guy we draft can be considered the #1/#2 best center in the NBA. That's what Drew was when he was healthy.
I don't quite remember that but I do remember when we played GS and Baron Davis was gushing about how big Bynum was after the game. He really owned the paint that game.
I think Okafor's and Towns' ceilings will be less than what we've seen Bynum achieve. The hope is that these guys will be able to provide they'd be able to produce more reliably. I don't see any of these guys pulling down 30 rebounds or contesting shots at the same clip that Bynum did. I'm not sure either of them will cause opposing players to think twice about going into the paint.
I think Okafor's and Towns' ceilings will be less than what we've seen Bynum achieve. The hope is that these guys will be able to provide they'd be able to produce more reliably. I don't see any of these guys pulling down 30 rebounds or contesting shots at the same clip that Bynum did. I'm not sure either of them will cause opposing players to think twice about going into the paint.
Bynum was a roller coaster. He would tantalize us with these flashes of brilliance - drop 40 one game, grab 30 rebounds in another, go 10/10 in one game, block 7-8 shots another. Then he'd have those stretches where he'd play 10 minutes one quarter and grab no rebounds, drop zero points. He was named Western Conference player of the week a couple of times, IIRC - not many Lakers other than Kobe or Shaq can claim that distinction.
But those injuries….painful just to think about what might have been. Every time he grabbed his knee we held our breath.
All at 19 years old, you take Okafor and Towns over Bynum because, at that point, Bynum hadn't lost his baby weight yet. However, neither Okafor or Towns are physically capable of reaching Bynum's potential ceiling (i.e. if 2007-2008 Bynum moved forward with his career without injuries). That said, Bynum's career flamed out. As such, Towns and Okafor could have much better careers when all is said and done.
I just think its clear that once Bynum got into the same kind of shape Okafor and Towns are in now, he demonstrated a potential ceiling that neither Okafor or Towns have shown to date.
While I concede that you may ultimately be correct. I think looking at Bynum after having been in the NBA for 2 or 3 years and comparing that to what we have yet to see out of Towns and Okafor is not a fair comparison. Lets see what they look like after they have adjusted to the NBA before we decide on ceilings.
Bynum was a one time all star. Okafor or Towns have the potential to be multiple time all star superstars.
Bynum somehow has gotten REALLY overrated here for the past couple days. Seriously.
well see but bynum was on his way to multiple all star appearance i mean guy gabbed 30 reb over duncan posted playoff triple double he was special talent
The guy averaged 19/12 and 2 blocks in 2012. Are people who hated him saying they wouldn't take that production out of a replacement in a heartbeat? Cmown... They'd take it and run. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Last edited by non-player zealot on Sun May 24, 2015 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bynum got burnt out at some point with the injuries. I always liked him and he was real. Told the truth. People say they want the truth but that's a lie. And he was tagged immature and reckless. Injuries derailed his career, nothing more to say otherwise he would still be playing now for the Lakers.
I agree. the injuries got to him... it's not like he had a choice. he just couldn't play anymore. if he was healthy, he'd be tearing down the Eastern Conf right now. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject:
OregonLakerGuy wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
All at 19 years old, you take Okafor and Towns over Bynum because, at that point, Bynum hadn't lost his baby weight yet. However, neither Okafor or Towns are physically capable of reaching Bynum's potential ceiling (i.e. if 2007-2008 Bynum moved forward with his career without injuries). That said, Bynum's career flamed out. As such, Towns and Okafor could have much better careers when all is said and done.
I just think its clear that once Bynum got into the same kind of shape Okafor and Towns are in now, he demonstrated a potential ceiling that neither Okafor or Towns have shown to date.
While I concede that you may ultimately be correct. I think looking at Bynum after having been in the NBA for 2 or 3 years and comparing that to what we have yet to see out of Towns and Okafor is not a fair comparison. Lets see what they look like after they have adjusted to the NBA before we decide on ceilings.
You can do that because of Bynum's measurables. Bynum, physically, was taller, longer and, once he lost the weight, more athletic than both Towns and Okafor. No matter what those guys do, they won't be able to match that. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
A point that needs to be considered with either of the newbies is that Drew was raw as hell when he was chosen. With the rule change, I think he remains the youngest player ever drafted. He got good schooling with the Lakers. There's even less reason to believe either one of the two draftees, both with MUCH more observable skills than baby Bynum had won't improve over a relatively short period of time. The Lakers org has been pretty underwhelming of late, we can't lie, but one thing they seem to have a good handle on historically is producing decent bigmen given that there's even a basic level of talent/ability underneath. Even Elden Campbell improved into a pretty solid PF/C by his 4th-5th year. Even him. He was eons away from 1-2 pick range talent coming out of college.
Here's a preseason segment from 90/1 showing Kareem working with he and Vlade. Hope he can be wrangled in to work with the new kid, but with his health concerns...
Honestly, a healthy Bynum would be preferable to either one of our sure pick at 2. Injury and bad attitude really hurt him. That's all. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Honestly, a healthy Bynum would be preferable to either one of our sure pick at 2. Injury and bad attitude really hurt him. That's all.
injury hurt him more then the bad attitude. he could've had a great attitude and would have still been out of the nba today all due to those 100 year old knees of his.
I believe the injuries and the trade rumors is what made his attitude worse.
And remember, the trade rumors started with kobe saying the same thing shaq said about kobe years ago. The rumor the lakers were going to get jason kid. kobe on bynum " ship his a... out"
So the best player is trying to throw you out because you're so young and not yet developed. As if thats your fault.
Then the constant trade rumors every single season. As if he wasnt developing at a rapid rate but being derailed by injury after injury. How many young rookie guys have come back after 2 really bad knee injuries to become allstars? NON. But bad attitude(as they say) bynum did it.
I hate watching those videos of Bynum when he was just starting to destroy the league. What a waste of talent......damn those injuries. I remember the first one when Kobe fell into his knees. I knew right then he was never going to dominate like he started to. He came back and did well, but of course another injury ensued and the rest as they say is history.
What always impressed me the most with Bynum, was his length. His arms were so long he would rebound balls from guys who had position on him even though he was behind them. They would be like....what the hell, how did you rebound that ball from behind me. Amazing.
Anyway, I hope either one of Towns or Okafor can be a dominant force in their own right to help us start to win again. It has been a long two years, and very unwatchable basketball, and Im tired of it!!!!!!!!!
A point that needs to be considered with either of the newbies is that Drew was raw as hell when he was chosen. With the rule change, I think he remains the youngest player ever drafted. He got good schooling with the Lakers. There's even less reason to believe either one of the two draftees, both with MUCH more observable skills than baby Bynum had won't improve over a relatively short period of time. The Lakers org has been pretty underwhelming of late, we can't lie, but one thing they seem to have a good handle on historically is producing decent bigmen given that there's even a basic level of talent/ability underneath. Even Elden Campbell improved into a pretty solid PF/C by his 4th-5th year. Even him. He was eons away from 1-2 pick range talent coming out of college.
Here's a preseason segment from 90/1 showing Kareem working with he and Vlade. Hope he can be wrangled in to work with the new kid, but with his health concerns...
Peep this, old heads. You'll be taken back.
Both guys seem to be further along skill-wise to us than Bynum. However, I will add the caveat that we don't know exactly (we have an idea) what the Lakers FO and scouts saw during his team workout that made them tell him not to work out for anyone else. And while both Towns and Bynums seem to be as skilled offensively as Bynum, neither guy has his size. Length-wise, these guys are more Jason Collins than Andrew Bynum. With this in mind, I'm going to temper my expectations about how much they will produce at the NBA level.
19 year old Okafor and 19 year old Towns beat out 19 year old Bynum in a land slide.
And everyone keeps basing Bynum's ceiling on a fantasy two week span he had before he got hurt. We have no idea if what he was doing was sustainable.
The jury is still out on that. The Lakers drafted a 17 year old Bynum. At 19, Bynum was in the second year of his NBA career and Phil was only playing him 22 minutes per game. It will be interesting to see how Towns and Okafor do over the course of the season as I'm sure both guys will get more playing time at the same age than did Bynum.
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...and this is where I kindly walk away.
