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textbook
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| How about Chandler and Aldridge? Can/Will Chandler take less than 10 to come home. Maybe a one year deal then a bigger contract next year. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | How about Chandler and Aldridge? Can/Will Chandler take less than 10 to come home. Maybe a one year deal then a bigger contract next year. |
Can't fit both under cap.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Given that we hear that LMA was turned off by the lack of analytics in the Lakers presentation (or a better way to put it- supporting data / analysis), I wanted to put forward what I would do, and also get your guys' opinions on what other things the Lakers should have done.
They may not have much to show from last season (I think this was their excuse), but at least they have the future to sell.
Two things the Lakers should focus on are: 1) Player production curves 2) Salary cap flexibility going forward
The main asset that they have now is a core of young players on cheap contracts. Clarkson and Black have had productive rookie years. Russell and Randle are high draft picks.
From this chart from 538, you see that it usually takes only to year 3 for a player to reach peak productivity, and you can approximate their contribution from where they were drafted:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-11.png?w=610&h=500
Those are just the averages, without assuming that the players pan out for sure. Of course you try your hardest to convince the FA that Russell and Randle are next CP3 and Griffin, and that Clarkson (evidence of good drafting skill) would have been a top 8 pick in a re-draft. You have Randle NBA preseason highlights killing Portland, and Russell making awesome interior passes all year in college.
For these young guys we have at least three years of near peak production at way under market value, and they have games that complement each other- only Minnesota can potentially outdo us in this regard:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-3.png?w=610&h=475
Not only that, but we are committed to start winning this year, have an all time great who can help hold the fort for a year, and then when he comes off the books, loads of cap room to sign other stars right when the young players are hitting their stride. You can put together a win share projection (generously biasing your assumptions higher) to show that this team can be one of the top teams in the league in a very short amount of time, with a long contention window.
(Charts are from this article - http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/ ) |
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32
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Which sounds to me like, "We need someone who can communicate this to Byron in language that he understands." 
It could also be the FO's way of saying that this is important to us, and the "I hear the analytics but they don't change anything that I'm doing" garbage won't fly.
Jesus, just fire the guy instead of wasting your time, for chrissakes. This is gonna be like teaching calculus to a cavemen. |
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kobetimeeverytime
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Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 2471
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | Given that we hear that LMA was turned off by the lack of analytics in the Lakers presentation (or a better way to put it- supporting data / analysis), I wanted to put forward what I would do, and also get your guys' opinions on what other things the Lakers should have done.
They may not have much to show from last season (I think this was their excuse), but at least they have the future to sell.
Two things the Lakers should focus on are: 1) Player production curves 2) Salary cap flexibility going forward
The main asset that they have now is a core of young players on cheap contracts. Clarkson and Black have had productive rookie years. Russell and Randle are high draft picks.
From this chart from 538, you see that it usually takes only to year 3 for a player to reach peak productivity, and you can approximate their contribution from where they were drafted:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-11.png?w=610&h=500
Those are just the averages, without assuming that the players pan out for sure. Of course you try your hardest to convince the FA that Russell and Randle are next CP3 and Griffin, and that Clarkson (evidence of good drafting skill) would have been a top 8 pick in a re-draft. You have Randle NBA preseason highlights killing Portland, and Russell making awesome interior passes all year in college.
For these young guys we have at least three years of near peak production at way under market value, and they have games that complement each other- only Minnesota can potentially outdo us in this regard:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-3.png?w=610&h=475
Not only that, but we are committed to start winning this year, have an all time great who can help hold the fort for a year, and then when he comes off the books, loads of cap room to sign other stars right when the young players are hitting their stride. You can put together a win share projection (generously biasing your assumptions higher) to show that this team can be one of the top teams in the league in a very short amount of time, with a long contention window.
(Charts are from this article - http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/ ) |
I don't think what turned off LMA was lack of good statistics about lakers season, lakers last year was trash no credible stats will spin that the other way. I think it was the lack of any analytics infrastructure the way memphis has with hollinger, Mavs has, spurs has, etc, basically all the teams now do. It was my reading that LMA liked that other teams used analytics as core of game tactics and strategy while lakers didn't. The solution to that is easy, simply hire more analytics people which seems like what they are doing now |
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etmo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Sigh. Talk about window dressing. Does this guy even have a degree in statistics? What are his qualifications to be involved with advanced analysis?
Regardless of how anyone feels about analytics, it's now an image problem for the Lakers. Byron's stupid quotes in the paper reinforce the image that we're outdated. That will affect recruiting, even if minimally.
So while it's good to see small steps like this, it's not nearly enough. Large steps need to be taken to establish the Lakers as a leader in the field, not "just getting by".
The Lakers have such a huge TV contract I find it difficult to believe they can't spend whatever it takes to move into the forefront of analytics in the NBA. As the playing field for free agents becomes more and more level, who are you going to play for, the team that asks you to take it on faith, or the team that can lay out the analytics showing you just how likely it is their plan is superior?
Perception is reality in the eyes of many free agents. Make the Lakers a leader in analytics. The perception will be that we're in the know, and can maximize our teams chances at winning. That will attract more / better free agents, which will actually make the winning happen. |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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If the coach admits he doesn't believe in them, then you've got a problem... It also sounds like your numbers guys need a better understanding of the situation on the ground, so to speak.
| Quote: | | Team officials felt that statistical analysis got lost in translation between the two branches of the organization, with statistics employees sometimes failing to understand the practical complications of making certain adjustments based on numbers, and the coaches not appreciating the value of the stats. |
Scott's probably a placeholder for another year anyway. Instead of him in the free agent meeting, it might just be "KD, who do you want as your coach?" |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| So it's Moser's job to dumb it down into easy to understand stories and cliches, I guess. Maybe they can hire an illustrator and make a coloring book too. |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | If the coach admits he doesn't believe in them, then you've got a problem... It also sounds like your numbers guys need a better understanding of the situation on the ground, so to speak.
| Quote: | | Team officials felt that statistical analysis got lost in translation between the two branches of the organization, with statistics employees sometimes failing to understand the practical complications of making certain adjustments based on numbers, and the coaches not appreciating the value of the stats. |
Scott's probably a placeholder for another year anyway. Instead of him in the free agent meeting, it might just be "KD, who do you want as your coach?" |
This really does need to be Byron's last year. |
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44TheLogo
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | Given that we hear that LMA was turned off by the lack of analytics in the Lakers presentation (or a better way to put it- supporting data / analysis), I wanted to put forward what I would do, and also get your guys' opinions on what other things the Lakers should have done.
They may not have much to show from last season (I think this was their excuse), but at least they have the future to sell.
Two things the Lakers should focus on are: 1) Player production curves 2) Salary cap flexibility going forward
The main asset that they have now is a core of young players on cheap contracts. Clarkson and Black have had productive rookie years. Russell and Randle are high draft picks.
From this chart from 538, you see that it usually takes only to year 3 for a player to reach peak productivity, and you can approximate their contribution from where they were drafted:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-11.png?w=610&h=500
Those are just the averages, without assuming that the players pan out for sure. Of course you try your hardest to convince the FA that Russell and Randle are next CP3 and Griffin, and that Clarkson (evidence of good drafting skill) would have been a top 8 pick in a re-draft. You have Randle NBA preseason highlights killing Portland, and Russell making awesome interior passes all year in college.
For these young guys we have at least three years of near peak production at way under market value, and they have games that complement each other- only Minnesota can potentially outdo us in this regard:
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-3.png?w=610&h=475
Not only that, but we are committed to start winning this year, have an all time great who can help hold the fort for a year, and then when he comes off the books, loads of cap room to sign other stars right when the young players are hitting their stride. You can put together a win share projection (generously biasing your assumptions higher) to show that this team can be one of the top teams in the league in a very short amount of time, with a long contention window.
(Charts are from this article - http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/ ) |
100% agreed. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Adding a large wing to the library that nobody goes to. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | If the coach admits he doesn't believe in them, then you've got a problem... It also sounds like your numbers guys need a better understanding of the situation on the ground, so to speak.
| Quote: | | Team officials felt that statistical analysis got lost in translation between the two branches of the organization, with statistics employees sometimes failing to understand the practical complications of making certain adjustments based on numbers, and the coaches not appreciating the value of the stats. |
Scott's probably a placeholder for another year anyway. Instead of him in the free agent meeting, it might just be "KD, who do you want as your coach?" |
This really does need to be Byron's last year. |
Unless they think Kobe actually has something left, I don't know why they would even wait a year. Money, probably. |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Which sounds to me like, "We need someone who can communicate this to Byron in language that he understands."
It could also be the FO's way of saying that this is important to us, and the "I hear the analytics but they don't change anything that I'm doing" garbage won't fly.
Jesus, just fire the guy instead of wasting your time, for chrissakes. This is gonna be like teaching calculus to a cavemen. |
fo as a whole just needs to go
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | If the coach admits he doesn't believe in them, then you've got a problem... It also sounds like your numbers guys need a better understanding of the situation on the ground, so to speak.
| Quote: | | Team officials felt that statistical analysis got lost in translation between the two branches of the organization, with statistics employees sometimes failing to understand the practical complications of making certain adjustments based on numbers, and the coaches not appreciating the value of the stats. |
Scott's probably a placeholder for another year anyway. Instead of him in the free agent meeting, it might just be "KD, who do you want as your coach?" |
I don't think that's a great plan. I just don't think it shows a vision to walk in there without a coach and by extension, a strategy at all. Walk in there with Rick Carlisle and a well thought out plan for incorporating Durant into the team. Still probably won't be enough, but gives us a better shot. |
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lkjhf
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Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 1166
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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the dodgers went from a hurrdurr front office headed by ned (bleep) colletti to a genius nerd squad that's considered the best/most advanced in baseball now, and it just took a few months. they literally bought their way to it. so that's all the proof you need that you can buy your way to smartness and shrewd decision making. dump the turd that is the coaching staff(and ideally destroy the rotten head of the fish, the current FO, but that's not happening and we all know that) and just throw contracts at some young smart people to form a coaching staff.
the lakers need their own zaidi and friedman but i'm not sure what the bball versions of those guys are. maybe masai ujiri |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Which sounds to me like, "We need someone who can communicate this to Byron in language that he understands."
It could also be the FO's way of saying that this is important to us, and the "I hear the analytics but they don't change anything that I'm doing" garbage won't fly.
Jesus, just fire the guy instead of wasting your time, for chrissakes. This is gonna be like teaching calculus to a cavemen. |
Mitch has already said that the analytics information goes to Madsen, not Scott. And props to Mitch and Jim for seeing a weakness in their approach to LMA and actually doing something to correct it.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Which sounds to me like, "We need someone who can communicate this to Byron in language that he understands."
It could also be the FO's way of saying that this is important to us, and the "I hear the analytics but they don't change anything that I'm doing" garbage won't fly.
Jesus, just fire the guy instead of wasting your time, for chrissakes. This is gonna be like teaching calculus to a cavemen. |
Mitch has already said that the analytics information goes to Madsen, not Scott. And props to Mitch and Jim for seeing a weakness in their approach to LMA and actually doing something to correct it. |
But that's what I took from this...that instead of Madsen being the guy that communicated the information to Scott, it would be someone from the Front Office. Of course I'm thrilled that we're trying to beef up our analytics, but it's not going to matter if Byron Scott is our coach, because he has an open disdain for it. It's pearls before swine. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I haven't been keeping up on my Byron quotes. Has he at all attempted to explain away GS's championship? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if Byron knoes when he will be replaced and just makes no effort to improve since it wouldn't matter. Hell I am much older than him, I actually learned how to use a slide rule in elementary school and I have been able to grasp the value of advanced stats. And it isn't even my job.
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Lakers plan staff move to beef up analytics operation
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS – Lakers executives have long defended their use of advanced statistics, disputing the public perception that the 16-time NBA champions are behind the times.
The organization, however, is taking steps to strengthen the analytics side of things, with plans to create a position for a staff member to facilitate better communication between the basketball staff and those crunching the numbers.
Assistant coach and advance scout Clay Moser is expected to transition from the bench to the front office in a sort of liaison position, which previously did not exist within the organization.
The responsibilities of the role have been among those heaped upon assistant coach Mark Madsen. The plan with Moser, however, is to facilitate a pipeline of ideas with a basketball person in the front office. |
LINK |
Which sounds to me like, "We need someone who can communicate this to Byron in language that he understands."
It could also be the FO's way of saying that this is important to us, and the "I hear the analytics but they don't change anything that I'm doing" garbage won't fly.
Jesus, just fire the guy instead of wasting your time, for chrissakes. This is gonna be like teaching calculus to a cavemen. |
Mitch has already said that the analytics information goes to Madsen, not Scott. And props to Mitch and Jim for seeing a weakness in their approach to LMA and actually doing something to correct it. |
And the idiot BS just throws the report in trash.
Cause the people who made the report dont understand the numbers,
the guy madsen who is giving reports to BS doesnt know how to emphasis the key points
The guy who gets the reports doesnt know to put it in practical sense
So chaos all over |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hence putting a coach in the analytics department.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Hence putting a coach in the analytics department. |
Yeah, it's a good first step. It's a natural extension to his role as an advance scout. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess better late than never, but it would be more impressive if they had announced this in early May instead of Mid July. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like they are moving a coach into the analytics department to help sort out the flow of the numbers. I don't know Moser well enough to gauge how he will do, but it is an improvement in principle to have a basketball guy in the department full time to help translate. What they need next is a guy on the bench as at least lead assistant who works with Moser and puts those numbers into practice. Would love to see the Lakers bring in an analitics friendly mind onto the staff to replace Moser, and to take the analytics stuff off of Madsen as well. |
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