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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject: The Death Penalty - Yea or Nay |
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Being as politically inclined as I am, I've been thinking about the death penalty the last few days. I am a strong opponent to the death penalty for a couple reasons. First off, I feel it is hypocritical and immoral for the state to kill people as a punishment for killing someone else. Besides, what kind of weird message does this send to our society? We already have a gun/violence culture problem in America, why should we further cultivate it?
Second, there is the issue of wrongful convictions. In some cases, it takes decades for forensic technology to improve enough to prove the innocence of someone who was sent to death row. By then however, they've already been executed and obviously you can't undo it at that point.
Third, when someone has been sentenced to death they'll spend 10-20 yrs on death row until the appeals process runs its course and then they're killed. If someone gets life with no parole, they'll spend much longer in prison unless they are already old, which means more punishment and suffering. Not to mention it costs more taxpayer money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life.
I'm no fan of Bill O'Reilly, but he has an idea I like: instead of the death penalty, build a Gulag-style prison in Alaska and send convicted terrorists and murders there. Force them to do back breaking labor for 12 hrs a day in the freezing cold at a high altitude, give them meager food and clothing, and only allow them to get 4-5 hours of sleep a night. I especially love the idea of sending convicted middle eastern terrorists there because they are clearly uncivilized animals with no sense of humanity. Imagine a terrorist leader from Iran and one from Syria beating each other to near death over the last ration of rat meat!
I've been thinking if the SCOTUS can legalize gay marriage, maybe someday soon they'll declare the death penalty unconstitutional. Less and less Americans these days support the death penalty.
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Oliver Reed
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Joined: 28 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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The kid who shot those church folks in South Carolina deserves to die. Same with that scum bag in Boston for the Boston marathon bombing. This society makes these pieces of filth famous and then we cover their room and board.
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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First off, for someone against the death penalty, you're certainly in favor of a pretty brutal punishment, one that is arguably far more brutal and inhumane than the death penalty.
I don't think the criminal justice system should be about retribution. It should be about fostering a functional society, and I don't think catering to humanity's lust for vengeance and desire to dehumanize others is good for fostering a functional society. I'd rather our society go against our baser urges and focus on compassion and understanding, even for people who we don't see as deserving of it. And I'm not suggesting we do it for the sake of the criminal, we do it for the betterment of ourselves. What's more important is that we try to evolve past our violent tendencies, to not give in to the reptile brain. Why should we let these people, who we often portray as awful people, tarnish us by bringing us to the point where we crave the suffering and blood of another human being? We should be practicing restraint, practicing valuing human life, understanding why people do awful things, and maybe we'll grow as a species, instead of staying the same brutes we've often been throughout history. We should be focusing more on mental health and rehabilitation than punishment. That doesn't just go for the death penalty, but criminal sentencing, and the conditions of imprisonment, in general.
The only positive I've heard for the death penalty is that people on death row tend to get more attention from the likes of the innocence project than people serving life without parole. |
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | First off, for someone against the death penalty, you're certainly in favor of a pretty brutal punishment, one that is arguably far more brutal and inhumane than the death penalty.
I don't think the criminal justice system should be about retribution. It should be about fostering a functional society, and I don't think catering to humanity's lust for vengeance and desire to dehumanize others is good for fostering a functional society. I'd rather our society go against our baser urges and focus on compassion and understanding, even for people who we don't see as deserving of it. And I'm not suggesting we do it for the sake of the criminal, we do it for the betterment of ourselves. What's more important is that we try to evolve past our violent tendencies, to not give in to the reptile brain. Why should we let these people, who we often portray as awful people, tarnish us by bringing us to the point where we crave the suffering and blood of another human being? We should be practicing restraint, practicing valuing human life, understanding why people do awful things, and maybe we'll grow as a species, instead of staying the same brutes we've often been throughout history. We should be focusing more on mental health and rehabilitation than punishment. That doesn't just go for the death penalty, but criminal sentencing, and the conditions of imprisonment, in general.
The only positive I've heard for the death penalty is that people on death row tend to get more attention from the likes of the innocence project than people serving life without parole. |
Great point made. Simply locking up people who are going to eventually be released for straight retribution ultimately hurts society. Our recidivism rate is over 70%, and many attribute that to the judicial system focusing on punishment rather than discipline (i.e. teaching and correcting).
One problem that isn't talked about enough is the damage incarceration does to non-violent or petty offenders. They are effectively labelled as criminals and lumped in the same catagory as rapists and violent criminals, while being locked up with them. These people can basically "give up" and give in to this labeling, while "learning" how to become a better criminal from the real ones, thus when they get out they are completely disgruntled and will now commit crimes that are actually serious and very harmful to society.
Ultimately the judicial system is a huge money making conglomerate. Everything from parking tickets, to arresting people for smoking weed, to the death penalty is done not for public safety, but to ensure that the government and private companies they team up with profit as much as possible.
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rak_90046
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| whats WORST DEATH Penalty or solitary confinement? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty - Yea or Nay |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Third, when someone has been sentenced to death they'll spend 10-20 yrs on death row until the appeals process runs its course and then they're killed. If someone gets life with no parole, they'll spend much longer in prison unless they are already old, which means more punishment and suffering. Not to mention it costs more taxpayer money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life. |
I'm not philosophically opposed to the death penalty. However, I spent about seven years representing a death row inmate in Texas when I was a young attorney. It's a wild story full of Hollywood-like details. I've occasionally mentioned bits and pieces of it on this board, such as the fact that my client got murdered by another inmate while playing basketball two weeks before his execution date.
Anyway, the case changed my view on the death penalty in one respect: It's just a freaking waste of time. The process takes forever, it bogs down the courts, and it wastes a lot of resources. But the very nature of the death penalty all but requires this. As a society, we are not willing to brush off the possibility that we might get it wrong from time to time. We demand confidence in the process. And that is the way that it should be in America.
I have no problem with the idea of executing some of the animals who make their way into the system. I am not moved by the philosophical arguments, nor am I concerned that the process of killing someone might seem cruel (duh). Guys like Ted Bundy deserve it.
But I spent seven years watching sausage get made. It's not worth the trouble. There are always going to be people who get into the system even though it isn't so clear that they're guilty or that they really deserve it. To the credit of this country, we are not willing to say "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out." This means that the system is going to be slow, expensive, and frustrating. I'd just get rid of it. |
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