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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
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Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
Its not about them becoming good defenders. What we need is defensive schemes to help funnel the ball handler to our center. Russell has shown the ability to play defense and he seems to have a knack of getting his hands on the ball. He doesn't always stay in front of his man but he recovers well using his size and long arms. |
Disagree. You can run the best schemes with inferior players, but at the end, you need to have actual good defenders. That was proven case in point with Hibbert last season. When Lance/P.George were out, the defense collapsed (and not Hibbert's fault). The 2 prior seasons, Indy's defensive schemes + elite defenders made them one of the top defensive teams.
Take out the elite defenders and they fell out of being considered a top defensive team.
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | For better or worse, the Lakers will approach free agency by stating that the biggest "position" need is a star, regardless of actual position on the court. |
I actually think this is a good strategy. The roleplayers are pretty interchangeable ultimately, I mean can you really say that Lopez plus Afflalo is definitively better than Hibbert plus Lou/Bass? So might as well go to the guys who are not replaceable.
I actually think the Lakers played this summer very well. They pursued the best guys on the market, then when they struck out, filled the cap space with strong roleplayers. Don't know how you could really ask for more. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | For better or worse, the Lakers will approach free agency by stating that the biggest "position" need is a star, regardless of actual position on the court. |
I actually think this is a good strategy. The roleplayers are pretty interchangeable ultimately, I mean can you really say that Lopez plus Afflalo is definitively better than Hibbert plus Lou/Bass? So might as well go to the guys who are not replaceable.
I actually think the Lakers played this summer very well. They pursued the best guys on the market, then when they struck out, filled the cap space with strong roleplayers. Don't know how you could really ask for more. |
Yeah, they essentially got equivalent players on shorter/smaller deals. Lakers will march into 2016 again (hopefully with a different pitch and better developed young players) with over 60m in cap space now.
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Car54
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
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Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
Its not about them becoming good defenders. What we need is defensive schemes to help funnel the ball handler to our center. Russell has shown the ability to play defense and he seems to have a knack of getting his hands on the ball. He doesn't always stay in front of his man but he recovers well using his size and long arms. |
Disagree. You can run the best schemes with inferior players, but at the end, you need to have actual good defenders. That was proven case in point with Hibbert last season. When Lance/P.George were out, the defense collapsed (and not Hibbert's fault). The 2 prior seasons, Indy's defensive schemes + elite defenders made them one of the top defensive teams.
Take out the elite defenders and they fell out of being considered a top defensive team. |
They was still levels above the Lakers on defense. our goal should be to get where the pacers was first. Then fix whatever holes are there afterwards. Right now we have to work with what we have.
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Jellojigglin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Point of Concern: Perimeter Defense |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | As of today, the perimeter depth chart looks something like this:
Russell/Lou Williams
Clarkson/JBrown
Kobe/Young/ABrown (maybe some Nance Jr.).
Hibbert is a godsend, defensively speaking. However, upon closer examination, his otherwise top-10 (in terms of advanced defensive metrics) NBA defense (not just centers but the entire NBA) suffered in large part due to Paul George's injury and Lance Stephenson's departure. Lance actually put up some great defensive metrics his final year in Indy, and Paul George is one of the top defenders.
I'm concerned that despite having an elite rim protector like Hibbert, we have some gaping holes on the perimeter.
-DLO: rookie, though he showed some promise using his great wingspan and intelligence. Regardless, will be a tough transition from the NCAA to the NBA.
-Clarkson: was pretty bad last year on defense, though he was pretty much our top offensive weapon. He will need to improve his defensive awareness and will have to guard both quick PGs and bigger SGs. He certainly has the body and athleticism to do it, but I don't expect him to be a defensive stalwart.
-Lou Williams: not known as a defender, and will have to cross match with the team's PG.
-JBrown: gunner, not known for his defensive prowess.
-Young: I don't think I have to say much. He has all the physical tools but has never seemed to put much effort on D.
-ABrown: drafted b/c of his 3/D potential, but being a rookie, tough transition.
-Kobe: Not confident he has the durability to bang with bigger SFs, nor can he chase SGs throughout the game. He does still have the ability to be a decent defender for limited possessions, but overall, just not a plus defender.
In short, there should be a lot of concern defensively speaking. Who is the guy we stick on a high usage, high scoring player? Is it Kobe? There doesn't appear to be much on the market either in terms of improving in this respect (Moute is a good defender, but just failed a physical and offers nothing offensively; Dorrell Wright is at best an average 3/D player).
My hope is the team will look to trade for a more effective SF/SG defender, or will be opportunistic with the room exception to get one throughout the year (buyouts, etc.). I feel Hibbert is in a sense, being put in a position to fail with our poor perimeter defense. Our "best" defender may be a rookie (ABrown) who has a ways to go before being able to play 25mpg in the NBA at this point.
What schemes can the team run in the meantime to improve defensively? |
So this team could be worse then last years defense? 
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Point of Concern: Perimeter Defense |
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| Jellojigglin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | As of today, the perimeter depth chart looks something like this:
Russell/Lou Williams
Clarkson/JBrown
Kobe/Young/ABrown (maybe some Nance Jr.).
Hibbert is a godsend, defensively speaking. However, upon closer examination, his otherwise top-10 (in terms of advanced defensive metrics) NBA defense (not just centers but the entire NBA) suffered in large part due to Paul George's injury and Lance Stephenson's departure. Lance actually put up some great defensive metrics his final year in Indy, and Paul George is one of the top defenders.
I'm concerned that despite having an elite rim protector like Hibbert, we have some gaping holes on the perimeter.
-DLO: rookie, though he showed some promise using his great wingspan and intelligence. Regardless, will be a tough transition from the NCAA to the NBA.
-Clarkson: was pretty bad last year on defense, though he was pretty much our top offensive weapon. He will need to improve his defensive awareness and will have to guard both quick PGs and bigger SGs. He certainly has the body and athleticism to do it, but I don't expect him to be a defensive stalwart.
-Lou Williams: not known as a defender, and will have to cross match with the team's PG.
-JBrown: gunner, not known for his defensive prowess.
-Young: I don't think I have to say much. He has all the physical tools but has never seemed to put much effort on D.
-ABrown: drafted b/c of his 3/D potential, but being a rookie, tough transition.
-Kobe: Not confident he has the durability to bang with bigger SFs, nor can he chase SGs throughout the game. He does still have the ability to be a decent defender for limited possessions, but overall, just not a plus defender.
In short, there should be a lot of concern defensively speaking. Who is the guy we stick on a high usage, high scoring player? Is it Kobe? There doesn't appear to be much on the market either in terms of improving in this respect (Moute is a good defender, but just failed a physical and offers nothing offensively; Dorrell Wright is at best an average 3/D player).
My hope is the team will look to trade for a more effective SF/SG defender, or will be opportunistic with the room exception to get one throughout the year (buyouts, etc.). I feel Hibbert is in a sense, being put in a position to fail with our poor perimeter defense. Our "best" defender may be a rookie (ABrown) who has a ways to go before being able to play 25mpg in the NBA at this point.
What schemes can the team run in the meantime to improve defensively? |
So this team could be worse then last years defense? |
highly doubtful. Unless you think Hill was a better defender than Hibbert. The perimeter defense is marginally better b/c I think DLO can be a sneaky good defender.
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
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Captain America
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Point of Concern: Perimeter Defense |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jellojigglin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | As of today, the perimeter depth chart looks something like this:
Russell/Lou Williams
Clarkson/JBrown
Kobe/Young/ABrown (maybe some Nance Jr.).
Hibbert is a godsend, defensively speaking. However, upon closer examination, his otherwise top-10 (in terms of advanced defensive metrics) NBA defense (not just centers but the entire NBA) suffered in large part due to Paul George's injury and Lance Stephenson's departure. Lance actually put up some great defensive metrics his final year in Indy, and Paul George is one of the top defenders.
I'm concerned that despite having an elite rim protector like Hibbert, we have some gaping holes on the perimeter.
-DLO: rookie, though he showed some promise using his great wingspan and intelligence. Regardless, will be a tough transition from the NCAA to the NBA.
-Clarkson: was pretty bad last year on defense, though he was pretty much our top offensive weapon. He will need to improve his defensive awareness and will have to guard both quick PGs and bigger SGs. He certainly has the body and athleticism to do it, but I don't expect him to be a defensive stalwart.
-Lou Williams: not known as a defender, and will have to cross match with the team's PG.
-JBrown: gunner, not known for his defensive prowess.
-Young: I don't think I have to say much. He has all the physical tools but has never seemed to put much effort on D.
-ABrown: drafted b/c of his 3/D potential, but being a rookie, tough transition.
-Kobe: Not confident he has the durability to bang with bigger SFs, nor can he chase SGs throughout the game. He does still have the ability to be a decent defender for limited possessions, but overall, just not a plus defender.
In short, there should be a lot of concern defensively speaking. Who is the guy we stick on a high usage, high scoring player? Is it Kobe? There doesn't appear to be much on the market either in terms of improving in this respect (Moute is a good defender, but just failed a physical and offers nothing offensively; Dorrell Wright is at best an average 3/D player).
My hope is the team will look to trade for a more effective SF/SG defender, or will be opportunistic with the room exception to get one throughout the year (buyouts, etc.). I feel Hibbert is in a sense, being put in a position to fail with our poor perimeter defense. Our "best" defender may be a rookie (ABrown) who has a ways to go before being able to play 25mpg in the NBA at this point.
What schemes can the team run in the meantime to improve defensively? |
So this team could be worse then last years defense? |
highly doubtful. Unless you think Hill was a better defender than Hibbert. The perimeter defense is marginally better b/c I think DLO can be a sneaky good defender. |
I would agree that we definitely dropped some dead weight on defense. Hill and Boozer were probably the worst defenders (not including James Harden) I've ever seen make an NBA roster. Hibbert and and Bass are a major upgrade. However we also lost Ed Davis (a huge blow) and also downgraded our guards defensively (replacing Lin, Price, and Wes Johnson with Lou, J Brown and Russell) although Russell I'm holding out judgement until I see him against NBA competition, he may be okay. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30680
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
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Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
Its not about them becoming good defenders. What we need is defensive schemes to help funnel the ball handler to our center. Russell has shown the ability to play defense and he seems to have a knack of getting his hands on the ball. He doesn't always stay in front of his man but he recovers well using his size and long arms. |
Disagree. You can run the best schemes with inferior players, but at the end, you need to have actual good defenders. That was proven case in point with Hibbert last season. When Lance/P.George were out, the defense collapsed (and not Hibbert's fault). The 2 prior seasons, Indy's defensive schemes + elite defenders made them one of the top defensive teams.
Take out the elite defenders and they fell out of being considered a top defensive team. |
Despite all that they still were a #7 ranked defense last year. Obviously they couldn't maintain the exact same #1 pace that they held the two seasons prior, but that's damn good considering PG is widely considered a top 5 perimeter defender and Stephenson was no slouch himself. We're going to make a MASSIVE jump on defense imo. We traded out two sieves in Boozer/Hill and basically replaced them with as you said an all NBA defender. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8151
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | For better or worse, the Lakers will approach free agency by stating that the biggest "position" need is a star, regardless of actual position on the court. |
I actually think this is a good strategy. The roleplayers are pretty interchangeable ultimately, I mean can you really say that Lopez plus Afflalo is definitively better than Hibbert plus Lou/Bass? So might as well go to the guys who are not replaceable.
I actually think the Lakers played this summer very well. They pursued the best guys on the market, then when they struck out, filled the cap space with strong roleplayers. Don't know how you could really ask for more. |
The issue I have with the "interchangeable role player strategy" is roster continuity and chemistry. The Lakers keep shuffling the roster. Good teams have a core play together for at least a couple years and augment the roster.
Lakers are on the brink of doing that. But could have improved their situation by signing role players for more then a season or two. And addressed a glaring weakness at SF.
I would have preferred to lock in a Lopez or Koufos type Center. And a legitimate SF for a few years to play with the core group of Russell, Clarkson and Randle.
What exactly have the Lakers gained by having Hibbert for a year? Hopefully he plays well. But when he does the Lakers will have to overpay him to stay. If they are lucky he might decide to stay for a $25M max. Maybe. Same with a solid role players like Bass or Davis last year.
I understand the "need" for a superstar. But Lakers are in a position of having a poor reputation as a losing team and disjointed franchise. No plan other then "swing for the fences" and scramble when that doesn't work. Elite players want more.
Build a solid competitive team with direction and identity and a marquee player will come. Until the Lakers shake the perception of a disorganized and divided front office and continually shuffling of the roster and HCs why would any want to come to L.A. ? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
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Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
Its not about them becoming good defenders. What we need is defensive schemes to help funnel the ball handler to our center. Russell has shown the ability to play defense and he seems to have a knack of getting his hands on the ball. He doesn't always stay in front of his man but he recovers well using his size and long arms. |
Disagree. You can run the best schemes with inferior players, but at the end, you need to have actual good defenders. That was proven case in point with Hibbert last season. When Lance/P.George were out, the defense collapsed (and not Hibbert's fault). The 2 prior seasons, Indy's defensive schemes + elite defenders made them one of the top defensive teams.
Take out the elite defenders and they fell out of being considered a top defensive team. |
Despite all that they still were a #7 ranked defense last year. Obviously they couldn't maintain the exact same #1 pace that they held the two seasons prior, but that's damn good considering PG is widely considered a top 5 perimeter defender and Stephenson was no slouch himself. We're going to make a MASSIVE jump on defense imo. We traded out two sieves in Boozer/Hill and basically replaced them with as you said an all NBA defender. |
Curious but #7 in what, total dRTG?
I am hopeful that Hibbert will help us get off the bottom, but we just don't have many perimeter defenders. I know it's SPL, and guys are experimenting and stretching their game, but the best defender there was DLO, and he was caught watching his guy backdoor a few times too.
I'm hoping that Anthony Brown can be a productive 3/D guy, that DLO will continue getting better on D, that Kobe can stay healthy, and that we will opportunistically look for the next "Ariza" via trade, or we will find someone who is waived and use the room exception on a vet.
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70sdude
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
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Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
What the Lakers should have done was skip the Hail Mary pursuits of Aldridge and focused on building a solid roster from day one of free agency.
They could have had some nice signings of second tier free agents while every one else focused on the big names. They actually recovered well with their additions except for the glaring hole at SF. Unless Mitch is a miracle worker it will be a weakness all year long. I will continue to hope he will surprise us with an unexpected move. |
I think they will actually go for SFs next summer (Durant, Batum, maybe DeRozan) so they just didn't want to overpay for a guy like Carroll who is already almost 30. |
There were other players available day one.
For examples, Afflalo and Aminu both signed for under $10M. Maybe showing a bit of love and a couple million dollars more for Danny Green could have swayed him. Perhaps signing a Koufos or R. Lopez for less then Hibbert and more importantly locking a center in for a few years to develop with the team.
Water under the bridge at this point. But IMO the Lakers wasted time and energy chasing the long shots. We had this discussion repeatedly before free agency started.
IMO the strategy should have been to fill the biggest needs first. To build a competitive team. Then chase the elites next year. Obviously the Lakers did not agree. |
I disagree about Afflalo's "decline." His game morphs a lot, depending upon what each team asks of him. He's still healthy and plenty capable of scoring, defending and enabling others as well as he has done at any one time. That said, I agree that he's not the type of player the Lakers should seek to add in this rebuilding period. He's good value, he's versatile, but he's not trans-formative in any way. Gotta find his type of player at the start of his career methinks, not on the crest of his NBA days. He'd be a fine third option during a championship charge. |
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Irie
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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
There's a thread for that. Btw, why quote that one sentance? Who do you work for? The tabloids?
In other news, Kobe seen in Germany.... |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30680
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | This video goes over some advanced defensive analytics and mentions Hibbert around the 17 minute mark or so. (Worth watching the whole thing.)
|
Yeah, I broke down a few of the advanced defensive stats and basically in 2012-13, 2013-14, he was a top 7 all-NBA defender.
Last season, without Paul George/Lance he was on a veritable island. Unfortunately, unless our guys become defensive stalwarts within 2 months, he may be in a similar situation where the perimeter defenders are just too leaky. Here's to hoping that young guys like DLO/Clarkson can improve on that end and that by mid-season, we would have traded for or used the room exception to get a more steady 3/D SF. |
Its not about them becoming good defenders. What we need is defensive schemes to help funnel the ball handler to our center. Russell has shown the ability to play defense and he seems to have a knack of getting his hands on the ball. He doesn't always stay in front of his man but he recovers well using his size and long arms. |
Disagree. You can run the best schemes with inferior players, but at the end, you need to have actual good defenders. That was proven case in point with Hibbert last season. When Lance/P.George were out, the defense collapsed (and not Hibbert's fault). The 2 prior seasons, Indy's defensive schemes + elite defenders made them one of the top defensive teams.
Take out the elite defenders and they fell out of being considered a top defensive team. |
Despite all that they still were a #7 ranked defense last year. Obviously they couldn't maintain the exact same #1 pace that they held the two seasons prior, but that's damn good considering PG is widely considered a top 5 perimeter defender and Stephenson was no slouch himself. We're going to make a MASSIVE jump on defense imo. We traded out two sieves in Boozer/Hill and basically replaced them with as you said an all NBA defender. |
Curious but #7 in what, total dRTG?
I am hopeful that Hibbert will help us get off the bottom, but we just don't have many perimeter defenders. I know it's SPL, and guys are experimenting and stretching their game, but the best defender there was DLO, and he was caught watching his guy backdoor a few times too.
I'm hoping that Anthony Brown can be a productive 3/D guy, that DLO will continue getting better on D, that Kobe can stay healthy, and that we will opportunistically look for the next "Ariza" via trade, or we will find someone who is waived and use the room exception on a vet. |
Yep.
They were #1 in Drtg the two years prior but dropped to #7. That's after losing all that perimeter defense talent. The guy is a certifiably legit game changer on that end. They had a scrub Solomon Hill in place of Paul George and Stuckey/CJ Miles/CJ Watson (all 3 of whom have a reputation for being horrific defenders) sharing minutes where Stephenson played.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2015.html
They had several net negative defenders playing major minutes and were still #7. That's a combination of a great scheme and having a superior anchor. You're underestimating the power of a good scheme and players (all 5 on the court) that buy in.
-CJ Watson went from being worse individual Drtg than Clarkson in Golden State averaging around 113. He miraculously became a stalwart at 101 in both years in Chicago and remained so in INdiana (103).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/watsocj01.html
-Stuckey averaged around 110 in Detroit for almost entire career, drops to 103 in Indiana.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stuckro01.html
-CJ Miles hovered around 110 his entire career including two years with Dumb (Mike Brown) and Dumber (Byron Scott). He somehow morphed into a quality defender in Indiana (104).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/milescj01.html
Schemes matter. They matter a LOT.
Last edited by jonnybravo on Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:58 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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SaintStephen
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Posts: 623
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Irie wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
There's a thread for that. Btw, why quote that one sentance? Who do you work for? The tabloids?
In other news, Kobe seen in Germany.... |
I posted that before the other thread went up, if you had bothered to look at timestamps before jumping all over me. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | Irie wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
There's a thread for that. Btw, why quote that one sentance? Who do you work for? The tabloids?
In other news, Kobe seen in Germany.... |
I posted that before the other thread went up, if you had bothered to look at timestamps before jumping all over me. |
BScott said that to show how versatile the team is. He doesn't plan on playing Kobe at the 4 a lot he just might use it once in a while in unique scenarios like you mentioned above. You would know that if you had bothered to read the whole article before jumping all over him. |
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SaintStephen
Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Jun 2015
Posts: 623
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | Irie wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
There's a thread for that. Btw, why quote that one sentance? Who do you work for? The tabloids?
In other news, Kobe seen in Germany.... |
I posted that before the other thread went up, if you had bothered to look at timestamps before jumping all over me. |
BScott said that to show how versatile the team is. He doesn't plan on playing Kobe at the 4 a lot he just might use it once in a while in unique scenarios like you mentioned above. You would know that if you had bothered to read the whole article before jumping all over him. |
... I jumped all over him? I just said I was unsure what to make of it. If that even qualifies as criticism, it sure isn't a very strong one.
And obviously I did read the whole article since as you said, I was the one who described certain situations where he might use it.
I don't get what I did to earn this flagrantly aggressive treatment. Trying to share something Laker-related with others, with a tiny amount of my own opinion on the Lakers mixed in? Is that frowned upon here? |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | Irie wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | Speaking of terrible defense... did anybody see this article a few days back? In among the discussion of D'Angelo Russell is this choice Byron Scott quote:
| Quote: | | Kobe can play one, two and three. There's no doubt in my mind. And there's some games. against some teams, where he'll probably play four. |
I don't even know how to respond to that. I assume it would only be in situations where like... Harrison Barnes or somebody like that is at the 4. At this point with Byron I just have no idea what to expect. |
There's a thread for that. Btw, why quote that one sentance? Who do you work for? The tabloids?
In other news, Kobe seen in Germany.... |
I posted that before the other thread went up, if you had bothered to look at timestamps before jumping all over me. |
BScott said that to show how versatile the team is. He doesn't plan on playing Kobe at the 4 a lot he just might use it once in a while in unique scenarios like you mentioned above. You would know that if you had bothered to read the whole article before jumping all over him. |
... I jumped all over him? I just said I was unsure what to make of it. If that even qualifies as criticism, it sure isn't a very strong one.
And obviously I did read the whole article since as you said, I was the one who described certain situations where he might use it.
I don't get what I did to earn this flagrantly aggressive treatment. Trying to share something Laker-related with others, with a tiny amount of my own opinion on the Lakers mixed in? Is that frowned upon here? |
Opinions welcome but over-sensitivity is frowned upon. You over-reacted to the first guy so I made a joke at your expense. Then you over-reacted again. I was not being flagrantly aggressive just trying to make a little joke at your expense because I thought it would get a rise out of you. I think it worked. And the ridiculously pessimistic view of Scott on here is one of the things that gets a rise out of me. It was one quote from an article that said he probably would do it against certain teams. He didn't say he's starting him at the 4 all season or anything. Maybe in certain scenarios like the Harrison Barnes one you mentioned |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Stay on topic, guys. |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Another point of concern for perimeter D is all the switching that they did. It's good that they tried it, with Russell's size and Randle being able to stop penetration 1 on 1 vs certain wings.
But they did it on almost every possession, and when it was on a good shooter, you would see Randle give up a wide open three on every screen. Hope they figure it out in camp. |
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The Logo
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2013
Posts: 9577
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | Another point of concern for perimeter D is all the switching that they did. It's good that they tried it, with Russell's size and Randle being able to stop penetration 1 on 1 vs certain wings.
But they did it on almost every possession, and when it was on a good shooter, you would see Randle give up a wide open three on every screen. Hope they figure it out in camp. |
Yeah I didn't like that when I was watching summer league. You have to change it up a little bit, maybe one time you have the big stay back and then next time hedge out high. I didn't really like us switching on practically every screen, it cost us the Dallas and Utah games. I don't really remember how Byron addressed that last season, but hopefully we don't switch every time this coming season. |
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