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kobeandgary
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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
Neither were/are Ginobli & Parker. Maybe your mediocre basketball is winning basketball, not BSPN highlihts basketball.  |
Ginobili comes off the bench and they have Duncan. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ginobili coming off the bench was strategic, not talent based. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Billups and Rip say hi. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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i can't wait to watch Randle/clarkson/Russell PnR for the next 10+ years. It's going to be amazing! IMO Randle will be the focal point of the offense similar to amare staudamire during his Phoenix years. They both operate from the exact same positions on the floor the only real differences are that Randle has better handles and amare could dunk everything at the rim.
Russell is the floor general similar to Steve Nash or CP3. The major difference is the versatility that Russell brings. Russell is 6'5 and doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time to be effective like Nash and Cp3. Russell can call plays off the ball and still be a deadly threat coming off screens or spotting up.
Clarkson is our monte Ellis. Lightening quick, and ultra athletic scoring guard. You know this guy can score the basketball with the best of them and that's why he's drawn comparisons to Russell Westbrook. The difference is that clarkson can also be effective off the ball. He is a very good spot up shooter and he rebounds better than any guard I can think of in recent history. It seems like every game he is getting an offensive put back. He can slash and finish alley-oops also.
These players all compliment each other very well and it's a shame that more laker fans can't see it yet. we should be PnR teams to death with Randle as the focal point and I'm sure we will be in the future. It's going to be fun! |
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30
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
I've never seen DLO + Clarkson as the stars, but guys who could be potential #2 player. Yes, you'd expect more from a #2 pick, but if DLO can be the team's facilitator/sniper (in his prime, think something like 22/8/5) he's worth it.
Our superstars will more than likely come via free agency. The most realistic ones in the next few years IMO are Westbrook, Paul George, possibly Boogie. |
If a guy averages 22/8/5 I would call them a star, possibly superstar. I think D-Lo, Clarkson, and Randle all have star potential. Maybe not superstar take over LeBron, Melo, Durant potential.
Last edited by 30 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| 30 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
I've never seen DLO + Clarkson as the stars, but guys who could be potential #2 player. Yes, you'd expect more from a #2 pick, but if DLO can be the team's facilitator/sniper (in his prime, think something like 22/8/5) he's worth it.
Our superstars will more than likely come via free agency. The most realistic ones in the next few years IMO are Westbrook, Paul George, possibly Boogie. |
If a guy averages 22/8/5 I would call them a star. I think D-Lo, Clarkson, and Randle all have star potential. Maybe not superstar take over LeBron, Melo, Durant potential. |
Semantics. I meant "superstar" ala Kobe, Lebron, etc. levels, transcendent 1st ballot HOF guys.
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30
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
I've never seen DLO + Clarkson as the stars, but guys who could be potential #2 player. Yes, you'd expect more from a #2 pick, but if DLO can be the team's facilitator/sniper (in his prime, think something like 22/8/5) he's worth it.
Our superstars will more than likely come via free agency. The most realistic ones in the next few years IMO are Westbrook, Paul George, possibly Boogie. |
If a guy averages 22/8/5 I would call them a star. I think D-Lo, Clarkson, and Randle all have star potential. Maybe not superstar take over LeBron, Melo, Durant potential. |
Semantics. I meant "superstar" ala Kobe, Lebron, etc. levels, transcendent 1st ballot HOF guys. |
Ok, I thought that was the issue, but I wanted to bring it up to make sure. |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I think clarkson and russell fit better than say russell and danny green (or any other 3d guy). I'm not a huge fan of the ball dominant pnr pg offense. Having two playmakers I think is good. Keeps the offense unpredictable to the defense. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I think clarkson and russell fit better than say russell and danny green (or any other 3d guy). I'm not a huge fan of the ball dominant pnr pg offense. Having two playmakers I think is good. Keeps the offense unpredictable to the defense. |
The poor fit may well be not having an innovative enough coach to capitalize on this talent of these two players.
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-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I think clarkson and russell fit better than say russell and danny green (or any other 3d guy). I'm not a huge fan of the ball dominant pnr pg offense. Having two playmakers I think is good. Keeps the offense unpredictable to the defense. |
The poor fit may well be not having an innovative enough coach to capitalize on this talent of these two players. |
Agree. Byron's contract lasts for 3 more yrs >. < |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | More than likely one or both isn't around 5 years, much less 12.
It is time for those two and the whole team to turn it up a couple of notches as far as will to win and defensive intensity. Right now, I see a lot of guys with celebrity girlfriends living the good life as Lakers while stinking it up defensively both in effort and scheme. |
Right now we are seeing nothing. As in no one is playing. One guy is starting his second year and one guy hasn't played an NBA minute, so to presume that they are stinking it up defensively in effort is quite the s t re t c h. How about give them the chance to actually play in training camp, or better yet, maybe a few games? I see you are referring to Clarkson, and if you haven't recognized the work he has put in this past offseason then you are trying not to see it. Because it is obviously there. |
Yeah, I was a little too hard on them in that post...you and others are right.
I just think we have to be careful about "12 year backcourt" talk at this point. The NBA is a brutal business and the Lakers are going to need both to develop huge to be here 6 years from now.
Russell showed some good defensive instincts in summer league and I think needs to make that a featured part of his game while he develops offensively.
Clarkson's talent is obvious. I actually love the guy, if you read the summer league game threads I was comparing him to Russell Westbrook light as far as athletic abiltiy, it is almost freakish.
But Westbrook does a much better job of using his quickness and athletic ability to harrass guys and get steals than Clarkson does....that is an area of his game that was still disappointing to me in summer league and he really needs to step it up on that end of the floor this season vs. how he played on that end of the floor last season.
That is if we actually want to win games which I am not 100% sure is the goal right now as we are in clear rebuilding mode. It may be more about just developing players until things come together gradually.
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lakerican
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | More than likely one or both isn't around 5 years, much less 12.
It is time for those two and the whole team to turn it up a couple of notches as far as will to win and defensive intensity. Right now, I see a lot of guys with celebrity girlfriends living the good life as Lakers while stinking it up defensively both in effort and scheme. |
Right now we are seeing nothing. As in no one is playing. One guy is starting his second year and one guy hasn't played an NBA minute, so to presume that they are stinking it up defensively in effort is quite the s t re t c h. How about give them the chance to actually play in training camp, or better yet, maybe a few games? I see you are referring to Clarkson, and if you haven't recognized the work he has put in this past offseason then you are trying not to see it. Because it is obviously there. |
Yeah, I was a little too hard on them in that post...you and others are right.
I just think we have to be careful about "12 year backcourt" talk at this point. The NBA is a brutal business and the Lakers are going to need both to develop huge to be here 6 years from now.
Russell showed some good defensive instincts in summer league and I think needs to make that a featured part of his game while he develops offensively.
Clarkson's talent is obvious. I actually love the guy, if you read the summer league game threads I was comparing him to Russell Westbrook light as far as athletic abiltiy, it is almost freakish.
But Westbrook does a much better job of using his quickness and athletic ability to harrass guys and get steals than Clarkson does....that is an area of his game that was still disappointing to me in summer league and he really needs to step it up on that end of the floor this season vs. how he played on that end of the floor last season.
That is if we actually want to win games which I am not 100% sure is the goal right now as we are in clear rebuilding mode. It may be more about just developing players until things come together gradually. |
This is what really bothers me;when it is compared a 7 year league veteran and BTW one of the best, if not the best with a a one year rookie. It is just unfair. Of course Westbrook will arrass better and get more steals, now.
But this is a thread about projections & forecast and what Mitch envisions and why. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | West and Baylor round 2. |
I think maybe those guys complemented eachother better. One was a shooter, the other a slasher. Baylor was an absolutely phenomenal Russell type passer. West was a guy that could shoot the lights out, so it would be kind of like if Russell had a guy like Steph Curry along side him? |
Little known fact: They only won a chip together when Baylor got injured and couldn't play the whole season.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Short term and long term incentives are at polar opposites when it comes to deciding who should run Point between Clarkson and Russell.
Right now, I prefer Clarkson as the primary ball-handler/initiator in the offense. He's more effective at the position (based on what I saw in Summer League). Also Russell is the better off-ball scorer. He can catch and shoot comfortably off of an off-ball screen.
But getting Russell experience "running the show" now would probably benefit us more down the road. Unlike Clarkson, DLo is a pass-first guy. And conventionally, that is the better type of player to have at PG in an offense. Although I do admit, Steph Curry's shoot-first skillset just won a chip. And that contradicts my POV.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| ^ Probably 90% of Russell's half court baskets were off his own dribble with himself as the primary ballhandler in summer league. Off hand, I don't remember any of his shots being catch and shoot. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | ^ Probably 90% of Russell's half court baskets were off his own dribble with himself as the primary ballhandler in summer league. Off hand, I don't remember any of his shots being catch and shoot. |
That assumption was based of what I saw of him in Ohio State being very effective with Scott ball handling and him scoring off-ball. And it's based on DLo's 0.6 Assist-to-Turnover ratio in the Summer league.
I do believe he'll be a more effective PG than Clarkson over the long term.
He just isn't right now. That's what I'm saying.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | More than likely one or both isn't around 5 years, much less 12.
It is time for those two and the whole team to turn it up a couple of notches as far as will to win and defensive intensity. Right now, I see a lot of guys with celebrity girlfriends living the good life as Lakers while stinking it up defensively both in effort and scheme. |
Right now we are seeing nothing. As in no one is playing. One guy is starting his second year and one guy hasn't played an NBA minute, so to presume that they are stinking it up defensively in effort is quite the s t re t c h. How about give them the chance to actually play in training camp, or better yet, maybe a few games? I see you are referring to Clarkson, and if you haven't recognized the work he has put in this past offseason then you are trying not to see it. Because it is obviously there. |
Yeah, I was a little too hard on them in that post...you and others are right.
I just think we have to be careful about "12 year backcourt" talk at this point. The NBA is a brutal business and the Lakers are going to need both to develop huge to be here 6 years from now.
Russell showed some good defensive instincts in summer league and I think needs to make that a featured part of his game while he develops offensively.
Clarkson's talent is obvious. I actually love the guy, if you read the summer league game threads I was comparing him to Russell Westbrook light as far as athletic abiltiy, it is almost freakish.
But Westbrook does a much better job of using his quickness and athletic ability to harrass guys and get steals than Clarkson does....that is an area of his game that was still disappointing to me in summer league and he really needs to step it up on that end of the floor this season vs. how he played on that end of the floor last season.
That is if we actually want to win games which I am not 100% sure is the goal right now as we are in clear rebuilding mode. It may be more about just developing players until things come together gradually. |
I think they will walk the tight rope between developing youth and trying to win games. I hope that works and we end up winning 35 or so and our young guys showing promise for the future.
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Tony Anapolis
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly I would be stoked if the team looked like this in two years.
Russell/?
Westbrook/Young
A. Brown/?
S. Ibaka/Nance Jr
D. Cousins/Upshaw
And like this in three years
Russell
Westbrook
P. George
Ibaka
Cousins
I think that team can win the NBA finals. |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm starting to come around to this idea more and more. I really don't think a point guard centric offense (cp3 or rondo style) is conducive to winning. Where one ball handlin pg conducts the entire offense usually in pick n roll system. It's predictable and relies way too much on the pg. It can work but it can't be option A through Z. Need other viable options to keep the offense dynamic.
Clarkson gives us that option where the action starts with another strong ball handler and one who plays differently than russell. The defense will literally have to play two different types of pnr coverage vs russ and clarkson. Russell u have to go over the screen and force him to drive, whereas clarkson you have to go under and force him to shoot. The thing is though, if u give russell the lane he's still good enough to make u pay for it, and so is clarkson if u allow him to shoot. Russell is better at finding shooters and slashers, clarkson is better at finding the man that's open due to the defending rim protector rotating to help.
I think having these 2 is much better than going 1pg + 1 spot up sg. In today's nba, most defenses know how to stop a predictable one pg pnr drive n kick style offense. You need other options and having essentially 2 pnr pgs with different yet effective styles gives us that variety. Then add randle into the mix who is a beast on the roll. Lakers pnr gonna kill this league. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | I'm starting to come around to this idea more and more. I really don't think a point guard centric offense (cp3 or rondo style) is conducive to winning. Where one ball handlin pg conducts the entire offense usually in pick n roll system. It's predictable and relies way too much on the pg. It can work but it can't be option A through Z. Need other viable options to keep the offense dynamic.
Clarkson gives us that option where the action starts with another strong ball handler and one who plays differently than russell. The defense will literally have to play two different types of pnr coverage vs russ and clarkson. Russell u have to go over the screen and force him to drive, whereas clarkson you have to go under and force him to shoot. The thing is though, if u give russell the lane he's still good enough to make u pay for it, and so is clarkson if u allow him to shoot. Russell is better at finding shooters and slashers, clarkson is better at finding the man that's open due to the defending rim protector rotating to help.
I think having these 2 is much better than going 1pg + 1 spot up sg. In today's nba, most defenses know how to stop a predictable one pg pnr drive n kick style offense. You need other options and having essentially 2 pnr pgs with different yet effective styles gives us that variety. Then add randle into the mix who is a beast on the roll. Lakers pnr gonna kill this league. |
Add another, Lou Will is a good P&R operator too.
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Tony Anapolis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| 30 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
I've never seen DLO + Clarkson as the stars, but guys who could be potential #2 player. Yes, you'd expect more from a #2 pick, but if DLO can be the team's facilitator/sniper (in his prime, think something like 22/8/5) he's worth it.
Our superstars will more than likely come via free agency. The most realistic ones in the next few years IMO are Westbrook, Paul George, possibly Boogie. |
If a guy averages 22/8/5 I would call them a star, possibly superstar. I think D-Lo, Clarkson, and Randle all have star potential. Maybe not superstar take over LeBron, Melo, Durant potential. |
22/8/5 those is Westbrook third year numbers! |
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lukewaltonsdad
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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Anapolis wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Sounds like twelve years of mediocre basketball to me, not to hate but I don't see either of these players being superstars. |
I've never seen DLO + Clarkson as the stars, but guys who could be potential #2 player. Yes, you'd expect more from a #2 pick, but if DLO can be the team's facilitator/sniper (in his prime, think something like 22/8/5) he's worth it.
Our superstars will more than likely come via free agency. The most realistic ones in the next few years IMO are Westbrook, Paul George, possibly Boogie. |
If a guy averages 22/8/5 I would call them a star, possibly superstar. I think D-Lo, Clarkson, and Randle all have star potential. Maybe not superstar take over LeBron, Melo, Durant potential. |
22/8/5 those is Westbrook third year numbers! |
Take a look at his 2nd year; that's more in line with what I think Westbrook will do this year... |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | I'm starting to come around to this idea more and more. I really don't think a point guard centric offense (cp3 or rondo style) is conducive to winning. Where one ball handlin pg conducts the entire offense usually in pick n roll system. It's predictable and relies way too much on the pg. It can work but it can't be option A through Z. Need other viable options to keep the offense dynamic.
Clarkson gives us that option where the action starts with another strong ball handler and one who plays differently than russell. The defense will literally have to play two different types of pnr coverage vs russ and clarkson. Russell u have to go over the screen and force him to drive, whereas clarkson you have to go under and force him to shoot. The thing is though, if u give russell the lane he's still good enough to make u pay for it, and so is clarkson if u allow him to shoot. Russell is better at finding shooters and slashers, clarkson is better at finding the man that's open due to the defending rim protector rotating to help.
I think having these 2 is much better than going 1pg + 1 spot up sg. In today's nba, most defenses know how to stop a predictable one pg pnr drive n kick style offense. You need other options and having essentially 2 pnr pgs with different yet effective styles gives us that variety. Then add randle into the mix who is a beast on the roll. Lakers pnr gonna kill this league. |
They complement each other perfectly and will keep defenses guessing. It's just a matter of gelling. I think the way Randle plays off the ball will be crucial as well. |
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MIZ83
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Mitch envisions Russell & Clarkson Backcourt growing together for next 12 Years |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Jordan-esque wrote: | http://bit.ly/1LNH9QY
| Quote: | The pinpoint passes he threw and his confident on-court presence gave D’Angelo Russell the edge over all the other draft prospects the Lakers evaluated. His prolific scoring and insatiable thirst for self-improvement ensured Jordan Clarkson a positive impression among his Lakers teammates, coaches and trainers. Combined together, it appears Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak cannot help but think about good things that will transcend into the franchise’s long-term future.
“Our vision would be that both of those players play together in the backcourt for 10-12 years,” Kupchak said recently on SiriusXM NBA Radio with Brian Geltzeiler and Rick Mahorn. “That’s what we’re hoping for. We don’t look at them as players that can’t play with each other or have to play with somebody else. We think they can play together.”
Yes, the Lakers believe Russell and Clarkson are a perfect match in the backcourt for a few reasons. Russell thrives as a passer, while Clarkson as a scorer. Both Russell and Clarkson could ease Kobe Bryant’s workload and create more space for him in what will mark his 20th and perhaps final NBA season. Both Russell and Clarkson appear determined to perfect their craft amid endless work, learning and self criticism.
“D’Angelo is a young, up and coming player. But I don’t know how much he’s going to play this year,” Kupchak said. “I don’t know if he’ll start. I don’t know if he’ll come off the bench. There’s really a lot we don’t know other than he’s a heck of a prospect. A lot of that is going to depend on how much he works and how hard he works and the progress that he makes between now and the beginning of the season.”
“We were not a very good team, but he showed great promise in NBA games,” Kupchak said of Clarkson. “We think he’s going to be a terrific player. But he has to prove it for another season on hopefully a team that is going to be better, and not just a bad team.”
Of course, one important variable could involve Kobe Bryant both because of his talent, ball dominance and demanding expectations.
Clarkson reported loving Bryant’s tough love. Bryant may have embarrassed Clarkson on a step-back jumper during training camp that caused him to fall down on the ground. But Bryant also enthusiastically gave Clarkson tips from the sideline and in film sessions.
Russell gushed about learning from Bryant. The two already touched base shortly after the Lakers drafted Russell with their second overall pick. Russell also maintained he would soak in all of Bryant’s lessons, whether it entails reduced ball handling and shots, prolonged workouts and verbal lashings from the Lakers’ star.
“Kobe doesn’t really treat rookies very well,” Kupchak said. “That’s not unusual. A lot of veterans, when rookies come to a team, especially if the veteran has been around for a while, it’s like, ‘You have to earn my respect.’ The first two or three weeks of training camp, it is incumbent on the rookies to go out and earn Kobe’s respect.”
How do they do that?
“In every drill, every practice and every sprint, if Kobe’s healthy, he’s going to be leading the pack,” Kupchak said. “He will test our rookies and our young players to keep up with him. Whether it’s a shooting drill, scrimmage of 4-on-4 or even a sprint at the end of practice, Kobe will lead the way. It will be up to the players, especially the rookies, that they belong. One they’ve shown they belong and earned their respect, then the relationship takes off.”
Then, Russell and Clarkson can make the slow steps toward creating memories that Kupchak lasts for over a decade.
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Love Kobe. |
Same here, man. There are so many haters on Kobe. Players don't want to play with him...blah, blah, blah. That highlighted paragraph shows why some players don't get along with Kobe. It also shows why Kobe is a winner and they are losers. |
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MIZ83
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Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 400
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | I'm starting to come around to this idea more and more. I really don't think a point guard centric offense (cp3 or rondo style) is conducive to winning. Where one ball handlin pg conducts the entire offense usually in pick n roll system. It's predictable and relies way too much on the pg. It can work but it can't be option A through Z. Need other viable options to keep the offense dynamic.
Clarkson gives us that option where the action starts with another strong ball handler and one who plays differently than russell. The defense will literally have to play two different types of pnr coverage vs russ and clarkson. Russell u have to go over the screen and force him to drive, whereas clarkson you have to go under and force him to shoot. The thing is though, if u give russell the lane he's still good enough to make u pay for it, and so is clarkson if u allow him to shoot. Russell is better at finding shooters and slashers, clarkson is better at finding the man that's open due to the defending rim protector rotating to help.
I think having these 2 is much better than going 1pg + 1 spot up sg. In today's nba, most defenses know how to stop a predictable one pg pnr drive n kick style offense. You need other options and having essentially 2 pnr pgs with different yet effective styles gives us that variety. Then add randle into the mix who is a beast on the roll. Lakers pnr gonna kill this league. |
Unless your PG is Steph Curry, in which case, it just did work. But, hey, I get it. He is the exception, not the rule. And, the W's did rely heavily on ball movement through most of the season. It is just that in the post season, teams made it all about getting it out of Curry's hands, so it did become a situation where they doubled him, trying to take it out of his hands; and it became all about the pick and roll and playing off of him from A to Z. |
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