OFFICIAL 2016 FREE AGENCY (PINCUS states 2017-18 salary cap falling to $102m; Lakers get Calderon, pg.2432; sign Deng 4 yr/$72M; Mozgov 4 yr/$64M; Tarik Black 2 yr/$12.85M)
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
gng930 wrote:
^^^ I think many of us are assuming Clarkson gets an offer that we can match. We exploit his low cap hold (2.7 million) while we sign other players.

Julius ($3.3) + Russell ($5.3) + Clarkson ($2.7) = $11.3 million
Lou = $7 million
Nance = $1.2 million
Brown = $0.9 million
Upshaw = $0.9 million
Young (stretched) = $2.2 million
3 cap holds = $1.5 million

$25m. Assuming $90m cap, that's $65m to split between 3 players. It would probably require Horford and/or Batum take slightly sub-max deals but Hibbert, Horford, Batum is possible.


Perhaps I am underestimating the spending power and salary budget. Not understanding the clarkson offer. Thought he will be a free agent. Was thinking over $10m not $2.7.

Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Still have this season to find out who is earning the big pay days and who will not. May surprise us all.


People are getting confused. Clarkson's qualifying offer is $2.7 million. That means we would have the right to match other offers. However, we still need to use cap space to match. So if we use up all our money on other guys, we wouldn't be able to match.


Yup. This is true.


Obviously I am one of the confused.

I was under the impression that if another team offered more then the $2.7M the Lakers can match. But that offer can be significantly more if a team wants to make the offer.

Thus the assumption that Clarkson would cost more to re-sign and it would go against the available cap amount. . More in line with the $10M+ that was discussed before.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Don't see Al Horford as being realistic.


I see him as a LMA kind of FA.


And imagine how much more attractive we would have been for LMA if we could've signed Deandre Jordan and DeMarre Carroll alongside him.

With 22m how did u plan to do it?

Fantasy talk


You totally missed my point.


I did too


Maybe their was no point


There is a point. They're hoping that their unique ability to sign more than one max FA will improve their chance of success.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
gng930 wrote:
^^^ I think many of us are assuming Clarkson gets an offer that we can match. We exploit his low cap hold (2.7 million) while we sign other players.

Julius ($3.3) + Russell ($5.3) + Clarkson ($2.7) = $11.3 million
Lou = $7 million
Nance = $1.2 million
Brown = $0.9 million
Upshaw = $0.9 million
Young (stretched) = $2.2 million
3 cap holds = $1.5 million

$25m. Assuming $90m cap, that's $65m to split between 3 players. It would probably require Horford and/or Batum take slightly sub-max deals but Hibbert, Horford, Batum is possible.


Perhaps I am underestimating the spending power and salary budget. Not understanding the clarkson offer. Thought he will be a free agent. Was thinking over $10m not $2.7.

Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Still have this season to find out who is earning the big pay days and who will not. May surprise us all.


People are getting confused. Clarkson's qualifying offer is $2.7 million. That means we would have the right to match other offers. However, we still need to use cap space to match. So if we use up all our money on other guys, we wouldn't be able to match.


Yup. This is true.


Obviously I am one of the confused.

I was under the impression that if another team offered more then the $2.7M the Lakers can match. But that offer can be significantly more if a team wants to make the offer.

Thus the assumption that Clarkson would cost more to re-sign and it would go against the available cap amount. . More in line with the $10M+ that was discussed before.


See the Gilbert Arenas provision. No team, no matter how much cap room they have, can offer Clarkson more than the MLE for the first two years of a contract. The 3rd and 4th years can go up to the max (see the contracts that Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik signed 3 years ago).

(scroll to bottom under "Previous Contracts")
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/jeremy-lin/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/omer-asik/

Therefore, the Lakers would not need any cap room to match any team's offer as they have Clarkson's Early Bird rights and the ability to exceed the cap to make an MLE offer. Therefore, they can sign external FAs with all of the available cap room, then exceed the cap to match with the Early Bird exception.


Last edited by gng930 on Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:


Again, I think you are underestimating the spending power of the $65M you are speculating. Perhaps i am overestimating the salaries for next year.

Hibbert/Clarkson is going to take at least $30M. Assuming Hibbert performs at a high defensive level. And Clarkson is not offered a ridiculous amount from another team the Lakers have to match.

So that leaves $35M for Horford, Batum and re-signing Bass? Would either free agent sign for $15M? I would not be surprised to see both closing in on $20M with the cap increases. If Bass plays well he could realistically expect a significant pay raise to $6-8M per year? all these contracts cut away at the available budget more then some or predicting IMO.

A couple of solid moves will likely be it. Unless the Lakers are not re-signing players anyways.


The best thing for the Lakers short term would be for Clarkson to get an Arenas offer from another team. That would limit his salary to the MLE in the two years the cap is high, giving the team more cap space. It would cost more after the first two years when the cap will likely decrease, but our spending should be completed by then. For next year if Hibbert works out try to sign him for $20 mil and then hope to find another role player for around the same. Then one year contracts to carry cap space to 2017 when you star FA will likely come.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:


Again, I think you are underestimating the spending power of the $65M you are speculating. Perhaps i am overestimating the salaries for next year.

Hibbert/Clarkson is going to take at least $30M. Assuming Hibbert performs at a high defensive level. And Clarkson is not offered a ridiculous amount from another team the Lakers have to match.

So that leaves $35M for Horford, Batum and re-signing Bass? Would either free agent sign for $15M? I would not be surprised to see both closing in on $20M with the cap increases. If Bass plays well he could realistically expect a significant pay raise to $6-8M per year? all these contracts cut away at the available budget more then some or predicting IMO.

A couple of solid moves will likely be it. Unless the Lakers are not re-signing players anyways.


The best thing for the Lakers short term would be for Clarkson to get an Arenas offer from another team. That would limit his salary to the MLE in the two years the cap is high, giving the team more cap space. It would cost more after the first two years when the cap will likely decrease, but our spending should be completed by then. For next year if Hibbert works out try to sign him for $20 mil and then hope to find another role player for around the same. Then one year contracts to carry cap space to 2017 when you star FA will likely come.


Quick note on the cap supposedly going down in 2018. That is based on the capnspiking a second time in 2917, and that is based on provisions in the current CBA. In order to meet their obligations for the players share, the owners have to on average spend right near the luxury tax line. Even this last year the owners failed to do that, and owe the players money . a provision in the CBA calls for an automatic rise in the cap when this happens to offset that going forward (likely why the cap for this year is a bit higher than expected). Given the enormous jump in 2016, teams are almost certain to not be able to spend enough not to owe the players a ton of money, hence the compensating jump in the 2017 cap, and the resulting correction in 2018.

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Damn phone keyboard. That was supposed to be 2018, not 2918.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:


Again, I think you are underestimating the spending power of the $65M you are speculating. Perhaps i am overestimating the salaries for next year.

Hibbert/Clarkson is going to take at least $30M. Assuming Hibbert performs at a high defensive level. And Clarkson is not offered a ridiculous amount from another team the Lakers have to match.

So that leaves $35M for Horford, Batum and re-signing Bass? Would either free agent sign for $15M? I would not be surprised to see both closing in on $20M with the cap increases. If Bass plays well he could realistically expect a significant pay raise to $6-8M per year? all these contracts cut away at the available budget more then some or predicting IMO.

A couple of solid moves will likely be it. Unless the Lakers are not re-signing players anyways.


The best thing for the Lakers short term would be for Clarkson to get an Arenas offer from another team. That would limit his salary to the MLE in the two years the cap is high, giving the team more cap space. It would cost more after the first two years when the cap will likely decrease, but our spending should be completed by then. For next year if Hibbert works out try to sign him for $20 mil and then hope to find another role player for around the same. Then one year contracts to carry cap space to 2017 when you star FA will likely come.


Quick note on the cap supposedly going down in 2018. That is based on the capnspiking a second time in 2917, and that is based on provisions in the current CBA. In order to meet their obligations for the players share, the owners have to on average spend right near the luxury tax line. Even this last year the owners failed to do that, and owe the players money . a provision in the CBA calls for an automatic rise in the cap when this happens to offset that going forward (likely why the cap for this year is a bit higher than expected). Given the enormous jump in 2016, teams are almost certain to not be able to spend enough not to owe the players a ton of money, hence the compensating jump in the 2017 cap, and the resulting correction in 2018.

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


good point there might very well be a revised CBA by then.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.


Well, we will go after Durant (and Conley/Horford aren't really "superstars" in my book). But we better have a true Plan B that hopefully yields some all-star level players or 2016 may be a long season (at least we will have a draft pick then).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.


Well, we will go after Durant (and Conley/Horford aren't really "superstars" in my book). But we better have a true Plan B that hopefully yields some all-star level players or 2016 may be a long season (at least we will have a draft pick then).


Depends on the young guys.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.


Well, we will go after Durant (and Conley/Horford aren't really "superstars" in my book). But we better have a true Plan B that hopefully yields some all-star level players or 2016 may be a long season (at least we will have a draft pick then).


i just hope that plan B is not paying Demar DeRozan 25.3m/yr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.


Well, we will go after Durant (and Conley/Horford aren't really "superstars" in my book). But we better have a true Plan B that hopefully yields some all-star level players or 2016 may be a long season (at least we will have a draft pick then).


i just hope that plan B is not paying Demar DeRozan 25.3m/yr


Probably not, especially not at that price.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject:

A part of me thinks it may be wiser to "sit out" 2016 if we don't get our main guys (and we will have our own draft pick then, assuming we don't get a top 3 pick this year).

Too many teams will have a near max spot and accordingly, the market will be highly inflated. I wouldn't mind using half of the cap space in 2016 on players with more than 1 year deals. I would love to monopolize the 2017 market where guys like Russ Westbrook and Ibaka are available (plus another possible cap increase, not as large as the 2016 one).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Come on Jim...good vibes! Think positively~


When Yinoma tells you to be more positive, that's sayin' something...



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:34 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Come on Jim...good vibes! Think positively~


When Yinoma tells you to be more positive, that's sayin' something...




for real lol
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:42 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
24 wrote:

But that is under the current CBA, which will almost certainly be opted out of in 2017. So if the owners and players agree on a similar split, the cap won't rise that much in 2017. If the players get a larger share, it will still take a sizeable jump. But in either case, it will not go down in 2918.


Which is why I'm not crazy about counting on 2017 to bring home that superstar, although we probably won't have a choice. Who knows what the salary cap and maximum salary figures will be at that point.


Well, we will go after Durant (and Conley/Horford aren't really "superstars" in my book). But we better have a true Plan B that hopefully yields some all-star level players or 2016 may be a long season (at least we will have a draft pick then).


Nothing from the last two offseasons makes me think the bolded will happen.
We will go after Durant. We will strike out on him.
Then we'll go after Derozan, Conley, and Horford and strike out.

24 was profound when he said it "depends on the young guys". Beyond them possibly attracting superstar talent by next year (they wont).
The only way we make the playoffs by 2017 or 2018 is by Clarkson, Randle, and Russell developing and reaching their upside rapidly. Then when it seems like we can make the playoffs with just them as the core, and it would be painful to part with one or two of the young guys. Quality allstar veterans will start pouring in and showing interest via FA and trades.
Like many things in life. You get what you want, just when you don't need it anymore.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Come on Jim...good vibes! Think positively~


When Yinoma tells you to be more positive, that's sayin' something...




for real lol


I keep it 100. And when there is something to be excited about I will be honest. I am excited about the team the next few years.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
A part of me thinks it may be wiser to "sit out" 2016 if we don't get our main guys (and we will have our own draft pick then, assuming we don't get a top 3 pick this year).

Too many teams will have a near max spot and accordingly, the market will be highly inflated. I wouldn't mind using half of the cap space in 2016 on players with more than 1 year deals. I would love to monopolize the 2017 market where guys like Russ Westbrook and Ibaka are available (plus another possible cap increase, not as large as the 2016 one).


I think targeting Batum with a max contract in 2016 and then spending the remaining cap on a one-year deal would be a good way to approach things. He can be a good forward on a title team.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Come on Jim...good vibes! Think positively~


When Yinoma tells you to be more positive, that's sayin' something...




for real lol


huh? removing buried skeleton's i see
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
22 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Come on Jim...good vibes! Think positively~


When Yinoma tells you to be more positive, that's sayin' something...




for real lol


I keep it 100. And when there is something to be excited about I will be honest. I am excited about the team the next few years.


agreed, I even bought preseason tix
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
A part of me thinks it may be wiser to "sit out" 2016 if we don't get our main guys (and we will have our own draft pick then, assuming we don't get a top 3 pick this year).

Too many teams will have a near max spot and accordingly, the market will be highly inflated. I wouldn't mind using half of the cap space in 2016 on players with more than 1 year deals. I would love to monopolize the 2017 market where guys like Russ Westbrook and Ibaka are available (plus another possible cap increase, not as large as the 2016 one).


I think targeting Batum with a max contract in 2016 and then spending the remaining cap on a one-year deal would be a good way to approach things. He can be a good forward on a title team.


I agree Batum presents probably the best combination of skillset, fit, and attainability. I just wish he didn't play the same position as Durant so that we could pursue them both simultaneously.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
A part of me thinks it may be wiser to "sit out" 2016 if we don't get our main guys (and we will have our own draft pick then, assuming we don't get a top 3 pick this year).

Too many teams will have a near max spot and accordingly, the market will be highly inflated. I wouldn't mind using half of the cap space in 2016 on players with more than 1 year deals. I would love to monopolize the 2017 market where guys like Russ Westbrook and Ibaka are available (plus another possible cap increase, not as large as the 2016 one).


I think targeting Batum with a max contract in 2016 and then spending the remaining cap on a one-year deal would be a good way to approach things. He can be a good forward on a title team.


I agree Batum presents probably the best combination of skillset, fit, and attainability. I just wish he didn't play the same position as Durant so that we could pursue them both simultaneously.

Batum can play either wing position. Batum/KD would be nasty together. Altough I think Batum/DeRozan/Russell with Clarkson as the 6th man is more likely
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:

Batum can play either wing position. Batum/KD would be nasty together. Altough I think Batum/DeRozan/Russell with Clarkson as the 6th man is more likely


Per 82games, the only year he's spent more than 5 minutes/game at PF was 2013-2014 where he played 24% of the minutes available at that position. He was a -2.5 versus +3.8 at SF. Perhaps it's worth a shot with spot minutes, but I wouldn't count on him starting at PF. And it's usually not a good selling point either to ask him to play a new position.

And of course I'm hoping that Randle is our future at PF, although he would excel as a 6th man.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Damn phone keyboard. That was supposed to be 2018, not 2918.


I was going to say, that is spectacular forward thinking on your part.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject:

I'm all for giving Batum a max or close to it next offseason.
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