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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Have people seen Kendall's "jumper?" _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
If Kendall Marshall could score, he'd be a tremendous player. But that's in the same ballpark as if my aunt had a twig & berries she'd be my uncle. |
If he could defend too. |
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THE_DAGGER Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 352
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | This is obviously some weird projection of your bitterness toward Nash being favored over Kobe by some silly people in the mid-2000's, and you're transferring that over to Russell for some reason. You're conflating style of player with quality of player. Harold Miner was more stylistically similar to Kobe than Nash was, but you don't draft him over Nash.
Kobe Bryant wasn't available in this draft. You try to draft the best player available, not take some if-I-can't-have-you-I-don't-want-nobody-baby approach. Furthermore, what does "build around a player" even mean? You (mostly) build around salaries, not players. Russell's presence will not prevent you from acquiring a single player that you want, and his ability to play on or off of the ball is conducive to whatever style of play that you want. The idea that D'Angelo Russell has to be either the center of the Laker universe or nothing at all is a false paradigm.
If our #2 pick turns into Steve Nash, we absolutely crushed this draft. |
Don't try to psychoanalyze me. I could say you probably had a secret man crush on Nash all these years but was torn by the fact that you were a Laker fan. Oh, the sorrow. And now you can live out your fantasy with a Nash like player in Russell on the Lakers. Hooray!
Don't make it personal.
You want to talk about false paradigm. Well you come in here like a false prophet singing Russell's praises like he's the next coming. Did you make a by the numbers sticky post for Julius Randle last year?
Do you think Russell can be the centerpiece of a multiple championship team or not? I don't. He has the potential to be a piece and that's it. I have a right to share my opinion. And I can honestly do that without dancing around words and stats.
And you do build around players. You get the best player(s) and you build around that. That's not a new concept like you're making it out to be. Now, building around salaries, that's something I've never heard of before. These players are actually humans. They're not just numbers you put into a spreadsheet. Not everything is a stat. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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^ Who would you have built around then? |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 16933
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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shortodom Star Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 5332
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I swear people like argue about absolutely nothing. Can the season please start already |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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God forbid if Russell becomes Nash. The last thing the Lakers need is a Hall of Fame point guard. _________________ We back. |
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mirak Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5238
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Let's all just take a deep breath and think nice thoughts. This is still a fan site, right? Not life or death.
I can't wait for the season to start. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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shortodom wrote: | I swear people like argue about absolutely nothing. Can the season please start already |
Pretty much we still have guys bitter about us drafting Russell over Okafor. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28374
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. |
I guess you're still butt hurt over Okafor. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. |
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The Logo Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2013 Posts: 9577 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yikes lmao. You guys are just starting convos because it's dead in August. Let's wait first shall we? |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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So prior to the draft Russell was a superstar.
After the draft, he's not even Kendall Marshall.
All I know is the Russell is a very good shooter, incredible play maker, has Kobe like confidence, has shown defensive ability, current superstars already have relationships with him, and he's only 19.
Sounds like he's a great pick. Worst case, he's a very competent starter that guys like to play with-- let's say Chandler Parsons level player. Best case we're looking at a Harden/Nash/Ginobli/Curry hybrid who can be a franchise player. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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THE_DAGGER wrote: | Nash wasn't the one getting credit for the Suns success? He wasn't the one winning MVP's? They didn't build that team around him and his style of play? Everyone wasn't saying Kobe should be more of a team player like Nash? People weren't saying we'd have more success if we replaced Kobe with Nash?
He was the best player on those Suns teams. He had all the pieces to have success with his style of play. He was supposed to be the difference maker. If he gets most of the credit then he should also shoulder most of the blame. He didn't get the job done. Flat out.
If Russell is going to play like Nash it's going to be like the Nash that played with us. He's going to have to come off the ball and be more of a shooting guard while we played through Kobe.
I'm not enamored with finding the next Nash. Not unless we found the next Kobe, or next once a generation player first. |
Generational players:
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Hakeem
Next Tier:
AI
KG
Dirk
Pierce
T Mac
Kidd
Nash
Malone
Potential Generational:
Curry
Davis
Durant
Westbrook
so, by your standards if they are not in the Kobe/Shaq/Bron/TD tier, it's not exciting? |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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THE_DAGGER wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | This is obviously some weird projection of your bitterness toward Nash being favored over Kobe by some silly people in the mid-2000's, and you're transferring that over to Russell for some reason. You're conflating style of player with quality of player. Harold Miner was more stylistically similar to Kobe than Nash was, but you don't draft him over Nash.
Kobe Bryant wasn't available in this draft. You try to draft the best player available, not take some if-I-can't-have-you-I-don't-want-nobody-baby approach. Furthermore, what does "build around a player" even mean? You (mostly) build around salaries, not players. Russell's presence will not prevent you from acquiring a single player that you want, and his ability to play on or off of the ball is conducive to whatever style of play that you want. The idea that D'Angelo Russell has to be either the center of the Laker universe or nothing at all is a false paradigm.
If our #2 pick turns into Steve Nash, we absolutely crushed this draft. |
Don't try to psychoanalyze me. I could say you probably had a secret man crush on Nash all these years but was torn by the fact that you were a Laker fan. Oh, the sorrow. And now you can live out your fantasy with a Nash like player in Russell on the Lakers. Hooray!
Don't make it personal.
You want to talk about false paradigm. Well you come in here like a false prophet singing Russell's praises like he's the next coming. Did you make a by the numbers sticky post for Julius Randle last year?
Do you think Russell can be the centerpiece of a multiple championship team or not? I don't. He has the potential to be a piece and that's it. I have a right to share my opinion. And I can honestly do that without dancing around words and stats.
And you do build around players. You get the best player(s) and you build around that. That's not a new concept like you're making it out to be. Now, building around salaries, that's something I've never heard of before. These players are actually humans. They're not just numbers you put into a spreadsheet. Not everything is a stat. |
What a stunningly unrealistic expectation.
-LeBron James
-Tim Duncan
-Kobe Bryant
-Shaquille O'Neal
-Michael Jordan
There's your list of centerpieces of multiple championship teams in the last 20 years. Only arguably half of the Top 10 players of all-time list. To answer your question, no, I don't think D'Angelo Russell is going to be the centerpiece of multiple championship teams.
You're the one that started with the weird, unrelated "Kobe was persecuted to pump up Nash" stuff. Of course this is about your feelings on that, because there's no sensical connection between that and how good of a player D'Angelo Russell is gonna be.
No, I didn't start a By the Numbers thread on Julius Randle last year. Because we hadn't started the By the Numbers series. If you've paid any attention to my posts over the last year on the subject, you'd know that I think extremely highly of Randle as well.
You missed the point regarding building around contracts. Rookie contracts allow you to acquire whomever the hell you want to. Golden State cobbled together a ton of talent with the benefit of Curry & Thompson under rookie deals. It's not an either/or situation, where you have to either build around Russell or not have him at all. He won't make enough money to be preventative of anything else that you'd like to do until the 20's. You "build around" max players because you have no other choice.
Hate to break it to you, but I don't think that Russell's going to be one of the greatest players in NBA history. But since none of those guys were available, I'm happy with who we got, because I think we drafted the best player in the draft. "Centerpiece on multiple championship teams." You've gotta be kidding me.
"If any of those players on the wall were available, we would’ve selected them, but they weren’t. So our choices were what they were, and we’re very happy to have D’Angelo be a Laker." - Mitch Kupchak, in a real world where real decisions have to be made, not some hypothetical fantasy land |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28374
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | Drifts wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. |
I guess you're still butt hurt over Okafor. |
funny thing.... it would actually be a surprise if you can post something with substance and sense. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Drifts wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. |
I guess you're still butt hurt over Okafor. |
funny thing.... it would actually be a surprise if you can post something with substance and sense. |
I'm still waiting for you to do the same. Everytime I read your post it's the same anti Russell garbage. Get Over it! The kid is a laker so root for him or you can join the 76ers fan base. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:33 am Post subject: |
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I've never been one to side with Drifts. But on this topic, I understand his perspective.
DLo had some pretty apparent flaws in summer league, so being a bit apprehensive about him is logical.
DLo's Summer League Stats
11.8 PPG , 5.2 RPG , 3.2 APG , 5.2 TO , 37% FG% , 2-17 3PT
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/teams/lakers/
I know everyone around here thinks Chad Ford is a disingenuous joke who changes his draft boards after the fact. But Russell did have a high bust likelihood based on ESPN's analytics as well.
I'm not saying we made a mistake taking him as our number 2 pick. Of course it's too soon to tell. But I understand if people are still apprehensive at this point. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | Drifts wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Drifts wrote: | Yong wrote: | THE_DAGGER wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | So you post a video of kobe and compare him to Russell. I understand kobe isn't a point guard but he's one of the best players to ever play the game.
Maybe if you said here look at Jeremy kind passing highlights from last year you would have a point. |
I'll do you better and post Kendall Marshall highlights:
https://youtu.be/-613mxY9nDY
https://youtu.be/5eyropZzfU4 |
wow that second clip. kendall truly was/is a special talent in the passing department. wasn't he a lottery pick too? |
I don't even think Russell is at Marshall's level of PG play just yet. Russell still needs the experience to be that good. |
I guess you're still butt hurt over Okafor. |
funny thing.... it would actually be a surprise if you can post something with substance and sense. |
I'm still waiting for you to do the same. Everytime I read your post it's the same anti Russell garbage. Get Over it! The kid is a laker so root for him or you can join the 76ers fan base. |
Yet Drifts didn't mention anything about Okafor...you did. How are you adding substance to the discussion other than dismissing his opinion and telling him to go root for another team?
After the Summer League performance where I fully expected Russell to dominate...he laid a huge egg instead. I'm a "show me" type of guy, and Russell has shown me nothing as of yet. Why should I be hopeful again? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | I've never been one to side with Drifts. But on this topic, I understand his perspective.
DLo had some pretty apparent flaws in summer league, so being a bit apprehensive about him is logical.
DLo's Summer League Stats
11.8 PPG , 5.2 RPG , 3.2 APG , 5.2 TO , 37% FG% , 2-17 3PT
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/teams/lakers/
I know everyone around here thinks Chad Ford is a disingenuous joke who changes his draft boards after the fact. But Russell did have a high bust likelihood based on ESPN's analytics as well.
I'm not saying we made a mistake taking him as our number 2 pick. Of course it's too soon to tell. But I understand if people are still apprehensive at this point. |
Summer. League. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:18 am Post subject: |
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^Not to mention saying that someone has a 40.9% likelihood of being a bust based on a model is a joke. |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:19 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
Summer. League. |
Sure it's summer league. But the second pick in the draft would be expected to do better than Russell did.
I'm past comparing him to a Kobe or anything...but the guys who have gone on to be stars in the league had better showings than what we got from Russell. |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:23 am Post subject: |
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kray28_ wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Summer. League. |
Sure it's summer league. But the second pick in the draft would be expected to do better than Russell did.
I'm past comparing him to a Kobe or anything...but the guys who have gone on to be stars in the league had better showings than what we got from Russell. |
Some big name stars did horrible in summer league too, so what's the point of reading into it? If this summer league is anything to go by, than this must be one of the worst draft classes in history. |
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