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greenfrog
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 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | You know how cars have a limiter on them so a person can't drive faster than 120-130 MPH. Even if the speedometer goes higher.
That's what I envision Roy Hibbert being for Kobe.
If I was coaching I would match those guys minutes in the rotation.
Hibbert can only play 2 quarters a game (perfect, Kobe shouldn't play much more than that).
Hibbert likes playing at a slower pace (so does Kobe).
And the 2 quarters a game neither Hibbert or Kobe plays, the young guys can play at the uptempo speed they will inevitably prefer. |
I've been advocating this approach for some time. It would have been helpful if they had put any priority on resigning Ed Davis in that he would be an ideal center for a young, uptempo lineup to grow with, but alas we have Lou... |
We have Black |
Uh yeah... He might make a good power forward for the slow line up. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | I think Hibbert was a good pick up, but part of me wonders why he was so easy to get. Too bad ESPN doesn't offer any explanation for why they have him ranked that way. |
Larry Bird pretty much destroyed any value they could get for Hibbert in a trade. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | You know how cars have a limiter on them so a person can't drive faster than 120-130 MPH. Even if the speedometer goes higher.
That's what I envision Roy Hibbert being for Kobe.
If I was coaching I would match those guys minutes in the rotation.
Hibbert can only play 2 quarters a game (perfect, Kobe shouldn't play much more than that).
Hibbert likes playing at a slower pace (so does Kobe).
And the 2 quarters a game neither Hibbert or Kobe plays, the young guys can play at the uptempo speed they will inevitably prefer. |
I've been advocating this approach for some time. It would have been helpful if they had put any priority on resigning Ed Davis in that he would be an ideal center for a young, uptempo lineup to grow with, but alas we have Lou... |
We have Black |
Uh yeah... He might make a good power forward for the slow line up. |
 Cracks me up when people think he is a PF. I guess a lot of people didn't watch Laker games last season. Or Rocket games early in the season.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | I think Hibbert was a good pick up, but part of me wonders why he was so easy to get. Too bad ESPN doesn't offer any explanation for why they have him ranked that way. |
Larry Bird pretty much destroyed any value they could get for Hibbert in a trade. |
They wanted him to opt out and when he didn't, they got the next best thing, cap space.
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Practice
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | I think Hibbert was a good pick up, but part of me wonders why he was so easy to get. Too bad ESPN doesn't offer any explanation for why they have him ranked that way. |
Larry Bird pretty much destroyed any value they could get for Hibbert in a trade. |
They wanted him to opt out and when he didn't, they got the next best thing, cap space. |
I'm sure they would've been able to get a player or at least a better pick for him if Bird kept his mouth shut. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | I think Hibbert was a good pick up, but part of me wonders why he was so easy to get. Too bad ESPN doesn't offer any explanation for why they have him ranked that way. |
Larry Bird pretty much destroyed any value they could get for Hibbert in a trade. |
They wanted him to opt out and when he didn't, they got the next best thing, cap space. |
I'm sure they would've been able to get a player or at least a better pick for him if Bird kept his mouth shut. |
Yeah, they could have tricked us into giving up Sacre. |
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yuurin98
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: |
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http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3436/roy-hibbert
Here are Roy Hibbert's game by game stats last season.
Yeah those numbers look quite rubbish imo.
If I have to say, Hibbert is not consistent on offense.
Last season, Hibbert has 20 double-digit rebound games.
Out of those 20 game, 13 of them come with a W, 2 of them lost in a close game, against last year's 76ers, Lakers and Celtics.
Most of the losses in those games are due to Hibbert didn't contribute in defense, or his teammates didn't step up. (See 1/17 @Charlotte where Roy got 12 points with 46% FG, 14 rebound and 6 blocks)
To let him be more consistent on offense, Hibbert will have to receive passes under the basket when he's open. Yeah I think Dlo & Kobe (if he passes) are capable of doing that.
He has to work on rebounding, he has that size advantage. He'll need to try to average at least 8-10 rebounds per game for the Lakers to have the chance to win.
Hopefully he can average at least 2 blocks per game next season, it is possible as he averaged at least 2 blocks per game for consecutively 3 seasons starting from 2011-12 to 2013-14.
In a perfect world, he might be averaging 14 PPG, 10 RPG and 2 BPG and I can see Lakers winning 35-45 games with this kind of contribution. 
Yeah I know I'm daydreaming.  |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3436/roy-hibbert
Here are Roy Hibbert's game by game stats last season.
Yeah those numbers look quite rubbish imo.
If I have to say, Hibbert is not consistent on offense.
Last season, Hibbert has 20 double-digit rebound games.
Out of those 20 game, 13 of them come with a W, 2 of them lost in a close game, against last year's 76ers, Lakers and Celtics.
Most of the losses in those games are due to Hibbert didn't contribute in defense, or his teammates didn't step up. (See 1/17 @Charlotte where Roy got 12 points with 46% FG, 14 rebound and 6 blocks)
To let him be more consistent on offense, Hibbert will have to receive passes under the basket when he's open. Yeah I think Dlo & Kobe (if he passes) are capable of doing that.
He has to work on rebounding, he has that size advantage. He'll need to try to average at least 8-10 rebounds per game for the Lakers to have the chance to win.
Hopefully he can average at least 2 blocks per game next season, it is possible as he averaged at least 2 blocks per game for consecutively 3 seasons starting from 2011-12 to 2013-14.
In a perfect world, he might be averaging 14 PPG, 10 RPG and 2 BPG and I can see Lakers winning 35-45 games with this kind of contribution.
Yeah I know I'm daydreaming. |
We're actually better off with Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, or Randle grabbing the defensive board and igniting the fast break with Hibbert focusing on boxing out, rather than grabbing the board himself.
And he's also famous for his ability to force misses at the rim without actually blocking the shot. It's the rim protection efficiency numbers that matter more than box score blocks. |
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yuurin98
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | We're actually better off with Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, or Randle grabbing the defensive board and igniting the fast break with Hibbert focusing on boxing out, rather than grabbing the board himself.
And he's also famous for his ability to force misses at the rim without actually blocking the shot. It's the rim protection efficiency numbers that matter more than box score blocks. |
You've got a point about how should the Lakers ignite the fast break.
However, with the purpose of reviving his career, I think Roy might try to focus on achieving All-Star numbers.
It won't hurt going for a few more blocks and boards while maintaining his abilities, he can also get those defensive boards and release an outlet pass to his teammates like Kareem to start the fast break.  |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think you have to look beyond some of the traditional stats to view Roy's value. Blocks per game isn't a great one because of how well he challenges and alters shots with verticality. Last year, he was 16th in blocks per game. However, he was third behind Gobert and Bogut in points saved per game in the paint with 1.84 and 2.62 per 36. So he was more effective than the block stat may indicate. The year before he was first with 3.07 points saved per game and 3.70 per 36.
In 13-14 season he was tied for 47th in rebounds per game and 56th in defensive rebounds per game, but was so dominant defensively despite that (and the team numbers were dominant, as well).
You have to redefine All Star numbers or impact. It's too easy to sacrifice effectiveness for hollow stat stuffing. As long as he's active like he was in 13-14, he'll be making a massive, positive impact on the team whether he gets the boards or not. Our great rebounding guards probably won't help those stats anyway... |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | I think you have to look beyond some of the traditional stats to view Roy's value. Blocks per game isn't a great one because of how well he challenges and alters shots with verticality. Last year, he was 16th in blocks per game. However, he was third behind Gobert and Bogut in points saved per game in the paint with 1.84 and 2.62 per 36. So he was more effective than the block stat may indicate. The year before he was first with 3.07 points saved per game and 3.70 per 36.
In 13-14 season he was tied for 47th in rebounds per game and 56th in defensive rebounds per game, but was so dominant defensively despite that (and the team numbers were dominant, as well).
You have to redefine All Star numbers or impact. It's too easy to sacrifice effectiveness for hollow stat stuffing. As long as he's active like he was in 13-14, he'll be making a massive, positive impact on the team whether he gets the boards or not. Our great rebounding guards probably won't help those stats anyway... |
The units he was on the floor with also rebounded well because he attracts so much attention from opposing bigs in terms of blocking out. |
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1hu2ren3dui4
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly don't see him In any long term plans. He is a rent a player that would be sat on the bench if there were actually any talent for this young laker squad to develop.
Even if you put him in a time machine putting him closer to 20 than 30 I doubt the lakers sign him to any sort of long term deal. He just seems too limited of a player. Good but not great on defense. Satisfactory but not good on offense.
He'd be a perfect fit for a team in search of perpetual mediocrity. And who wants a mental midget in the locker room anyway. Clearly not Larry bird. |
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yuurin98
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Anyway, Roy Hibbert is the only player in the Lakers that can provide rim protection, whether you like it or not. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 95 ROY HIBBERT
Lakers | Center | Last year: 52
What’s more damning: That the Pacers posted a better defensive rating in 2014–15 without Roy Hibbert (100.7) than with him (101.1), or that they traded the two-time All-Star center to the Lakers this summer for the NBA equivalent of zilch (a future second-round pick)? Neither fact reflects kindly on Hibbert, the former Defensive Player of the Year contender who played an integral role on Indiana’s back-to-back trips to the Eastern Conference finals in 2013 and 2014, but who has also dealt with confidence issues and inconsistency throughout his seven-year career. |
did not knew this |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | 95 ROY HIBBERT
Lakers | Center | Last year: 52
What’s more damning: That the Pacers posted a better defensive rating in 2014–15 without Roy Hibbert (100.7) than with him (101.1), or that they traded the two-time All-Star center to the Lakers this summer for the NBA equivalent of zilch (a future second-round pick)? Neither fact reflects kindly on Hibbert, the former Defensive Player of the Year contender who played an integral role on Indiana’s back-to-back trips to the Eastern Conference finals in 2013 and 2014, but who has also dealt with confidence issues and inconsistency throughout his seven-year career. |
did not knew this |
Where is that ranking from? Link? |
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Rivershow
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | 95 ROY HIBBERT
Lakers | Center | Last year: 52
What’s more damning: That the Pacers posted a better defensive rating in 2014–15 without Roy Hibbert (100.7) than with him (101.1), or that they traded the two-time All-Star center to the Lakers this summer for the NBA equivalent of zilch (a future second-round pick)? Neither fact reflects kindly on Hibbert, the former Defensive Player of the Year contender who played an integral role on Indiana’s back-to-back trips to the Eastern Conference finals in 2013 and 2014, but who has also dealt with confidence issues and inconsistency throughout his seven-year career. |
did not knew this |
Doesn't really matter to us. Hibbert will vastly improve our defense just due to the fact that we had horrible rim protectors last year. I welcome going from trash to average-above average in the paint any time. I also expect Hibbert to be better this year with his weight loss. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | 95 ROY HIBBERT
Lakers | Center | Last year: 52
What’s more damning: That the Pacers posted a better defensive rating in 2014–15 without Roy Hibbert (100.7) than with him (101.1), or that they traded the two-time All-Star center to the Lakers this summer for the NBA equivalent of zilch (a future second-round pick)? Neither fact reflects kindly on Hibbert, the former Defensive Player of the Year contender who played an integral role on Indiana’s back-to-back trips to the Eastern Conference finals in 2013 and 2014, but who has also dealt with confidence issues and inconsistency throughout his seven-year career. |
did not knew this |
Where is that ranking from? Link? |
my bad, totally forgot to post it. its from si.com and not from bspn
here u go: http://www.si.com/nba/top-100-nba-players-2016
Last edited by Jim99187 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks.
FWIW, this is a much more Kobe friendly list than the ESPN one. Last season they had him 24, now he's 54.
Last edited by greenfrog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | 95 ROY HIBBERT
Lakers | Center | Last year: 52
What’s more damning: That the Pacers posted a better defensive rating in 2014–15 without Roy Hibbert (100.7) than with him (101.1), or that they traded the two-time All-Star center to the Lakers this summer for the NBA equivalent of zilch (a future second-round pick)? Neither fact reflects kindly on Hibbert, the former Defensive Player of the Year contender who played an integral role on Indiana’s back-to-back trips to the Eastern Conference finals in 2013 and 2014, but who has also dealt with confidence issues and inconsistency throughout his seven-year career. |
did not knew this |
Same is true of Marc gasol, deandre Jordan, and Duncan. Has a lot to do with rotations and quality of competition (more defenders on the bench plus worse offensive players on opponent bench). |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | Thanks.
FWIW, this is a much more Kobe friendly list than the ESPN one. Last season they had him 24, now he's 54. |
haha i agree. i didnt expect to see kobe at all let alone at 54 |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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To me, it depends on a couple of factors for Hibbert.
One, how healthy he is. Can he play say 70 plus of the 82 for the Lakers?
If he can and if he is agile enough to move around a bit, he is certainly still a factor in the lane.
He needs to get a little mad and nasty, no reason he should be on a prove it deal with his kind of height and agility.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | To me, it depends on a couple of factors for Hibbert.
One, how healthy he is. Can he play say 70 plus of the 82 for the Lakers?
If he can and if he is agile enough to move around a bit, he is certainly still a factor in the lane.
He needs to get a little mad and nasty, no reason he should be on a prove it deal with his kind of height and agility. |
I think he has proven he can play around 75games/yr. What I want to see is how many mins he can play per game. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think Hibbert is best at 28 mpg. Too many minutes and he seems ineffective. Black and hopefully Upshaw can play the other 20 mpg. 
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Hibbert is best at 28 mpg. Too many minutes and he seems ineffective. Black and hopefully Upshaw can play the other 20 mpg. |
r u comfortable paying 18mil to a guy who plays 28mins? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Hibbert is best at 28 mpg. Too many minutes and he seems ineffective. Black and hopefully Upshaw can play the other 20 mpg. |
r u comfortable paying 18mil to a guy who plays 28mins? |
Efficiency. That's what I care about.
His two best years 2012-13 and 2013-14 he played around 29 mpg. The money thing will take care of itself.
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