latest ESPN article on Kobe
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:09 pm    Post subject:

I still don't agree with the premise that the Lakers can't move forward with Kobe still on the roster past this season. It's still early, but I've seen positive signs from Kobe during these 1st two games with regards to playing off the ball, taking high percentage shots, creating for others, etc. We even saw some legitimate defensive effort from Kobe in game 2.

It's premature to even be having this discussion without seeing how the season will play out. If Kobe struggles with health issues or finds that he can't be consistently effective on the court, then I see him retiring. I can see him retiring as well if the team tanks due to injuries once again, or the young guys don't live up to their potential. However, if the team shows promise this season and puts up 35+ wins with Kobe still being a marquee contributor, I can see him taking a reasonable one-year deal that will allow the Lakers to bolster the roster even more through free agency.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject:

I also want to point out that Kobe has been supportive of the FO despite the free agency setbacks over the past 2 summers. The golden parachute he received probably has a lot to do with that. Still, I think he's much more of a company man these days than some are willing to admit.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Kobe has never been popular among the press, executives and other players that are not in his class.

I really detest inferior players griping about the great gunners, Kobe is a great gunner and should never take a backseat to inferior talent. Kobe has shot his arse off, BFD, Live with it PRESS, he is truly an all time great (at least top ten) and deserves every frigging accolade he can get.

If Kobe shows during the next season that he is not capable of "being the man" he will adjust and move on. It should be Kobe's decision, he has meant so much to the Lakers and the NBA.

We sometimes forget how great he is/was, the limited action I have seen him in this pre season has given me hope that he is ready to take his mega talent and entertain us some more. When Kobe calls it quits the naysayers will realize how great Kobe was.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.

Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen.......


Right now? Right now is irrelevant to this discussion really.

And you highlight the exact reason why many of the "insiders" feel it is best to move on from Kobe. Because as long as he thinks he's still the top dog, he will never take a backseat.

But him taking a backseat, is perhaps, exactly what this team needs.


Of course right now is relevant.
If the future is growing one of our young draft picks into an allstar. Kobe taking all the pressure of being the number 1 guy in the short term is good for them.
If the future is grabbing a star FA or two. Having a healthy, all star Kobe Bryant makes the roster much more appealing.
If people think salary cap is enough to grab free agents they haven't been paying attention to our last few offseasons. Gotta have talent on the roster.
With the cap increase. A healthy Kobe's future salary is less of an issue.


But the whole premise of the article in question is about what happens when Kobe says he wants to play next year and beyond.

Having a healthy, all-star Kobe? Would you want to give him a max extension -- isn't that what a healthy all-star Kobe deserves?


If he's the 5th best SG in the league, he should be payed comparable to his peers (prorated against the salary cap).
Since he's older, give him a shorter deal than younger peers would get. But that's it.
I don't see how this is complicated or a big deal. Or how Kobe staying healthy and playing on is harmful for the lakers.
There is no guarantee another all star walks through our front door when Kobe leaves.
And all the time, young players improve when there are better, veteran players on their team.



Because there literally is zero harm to the team or players if Kobe stays and any idea to the contrary is sensationalism. Also the idea that Kobe is a hinderence to the team on the court is laughable. what's Kevin Durants ranking after not playing for 2 years or however long it's been?

The idea that a 5 time champ who can still ball better than 90% of the league being detrimental to the team and the development of our young players is comical guys. Besides a couple losers and burn outs like Smush Parker and Andrew Bynum, what players have said anything bad about Kobe? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


You're looking at it wrong. Again, oversensitivity defying reason. It's not really about this season. It's about -- what is the BEST thing for this franchise in order to be where it wants to be in the next 3 years after this season?

This is why teams move their veterans players, particularly their mainstays, when they're trying to turn a new leaf. Do you wonder why they do that?



I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Anonymous sources are how they get to pick and choose people who will give them the answers they're looking for in order to continue their biased narrative. Some of these "insiders" LOL are already known, they're ESPN guys like Amin Elhassan, Henry Abbott and Ethan Strauss among others, all known Kobe haters.

Can't wait until these ESPN writers have to actually write about basketball after Kobe retires.

People know that ESPN has written more articles about Kobe than any other athlete since they started their website? That's an actual fact not exaggerated BS. That gravy train is going to run out soon.


ESPN's channel got legs by constant coverage of Jordan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


Anonymous sources have their place. People will tell you things anonymously that they would never dare say publically, so you sometimes have to use this approach to get the truth or at least one version of truth.


Bingo.

Which is also why when using non-named sources, you generally want to have a lot of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject:

evetssteve10 wrote:
I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.


This season is irrelevant, because the team's focus SHOULD be on developing the young players and grooming them to be the foundation for our next run. That should be the #1 priority.

Now, that's not going to be easy to do when you have megastar Kobe Bryant on the team.

That's why some people think, including the majority of actual experts, that we'll be able to develop the young players more quickly, without being in the shadow of a franchise great who is all that anyone cares about.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
activeverb wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


Anonymous sources have their place. People will tell you things anonymously that they would never dare say publically, so you sometimes have to use this approach to get the truth or at least one version of truth.


Bingo.

Which is also why when using non-named sources, you generally want to have a lot of them.


I guess what you're saying is if you aren't naming names you want to be able to say "Interviews with more than two dozen people" as a code for "Hey, I did a lot of research so trust that what I'm saying is true."

There is some benefit to that. In terms of the piece itself, the number of sources is more related to the type of piece you're doing rather than whether the sources are anonymous or on-the-record.

For example,a big part of this piece was being able to reveal the poll of NBA insiders, so you'd want as many as you could practically get no matter whether you used people's names or not.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:56 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.


This season is irrelevant, because the team's focus SHOULD be on developing the young players and grooming them to be the foundation for our next run. That should be the #1 priority.

Now, that's not going to be easy to do when you have megastar Kobe Bryant on the team.

That's why some people think, including the majority of actual experts, that we'll be able to develop the young players more quickly, without being in the shadow of a franchise great who is all that anyone cares about.


I just don't get this line of thinking. Is it factually true that the young guns can't develop playing next to Kobe? Of course not. Yet, you keep presenting it as such. The focus of this season is to win more games, which includes developing our youngsters and getting quality contributions from our vets including Kobe. Kobe being effective and the development of the kids isn't mutually exclusive.

I acknowledge that Kobe could derail their development if he adopts the same mindset he had last season where he just really didn't respect the talent on the squad. However, I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have that same mindset with this year's squad.

Having Kobe on the squad obviously takes shots and possessions away from the young guys, but that doesn't mean that they still can't benefit tremendously from his presence. There is a lot of wisdom they can glean from Kobe just by talking to him, watching his game preparation and observing how he plays the game and uses his skills to compensate for his diminished athletic ability. Let's not forget that his presence on the court will also create easy opportunities for them as the defense keys in on him.

Your opinion of how Kobe will affect things going forward is a POSSIBILITY - not an INEVITABILITY.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.


This season is irrelevant, because the team's focus SHOULD be on developing the young players and grooming them to be the foundation for our next run. That should be the #1 priority.

Now, that's not going to be easy to do when you have megastar Kobe Bryant on the team.

That's why some people think, including the majority of actual experts, that we'll be able to develop the young players more quickly, without being in the shadow of a franchise great who is all that anyone cares about.


I just don't get this line of thinking. Is it factually true that the young guns can't develop playing next to Kobe? Of course not. Yet, you keep presenting it as such. The focus of this season is to win more games, which includes developing our youngsters and getting quality contributions from our vets including Kobe. Kobe being effective and the development of the kids isn't mutually exclusive.

I acknowledge that Kobe could derail their development if he adopts the same mindset he had last season where he just really didn't respect the talent on the squad. However, I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have that same mindset with this year's squad.

Having Kobe on the squad obviously takes shots and possessions away from the young guys, but that doesn't mean that they still can't benefit tremendously from his presence. There is a lot of wisdom they can glean from Kobe just by talking to him, watching his game preparation and observing how he plays the game and uses his skills to compensate for his diminished athletic ability. Let's not forget that his presence on the court will also create easy opportunities for them as the defense keys in on him.

Your opinion of how Kobe will affect things going forward is a POSSIBILITY - not an INEVITABILITY.


Bingo!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.


This season is irrelevant, because the team's focus SHOULD be on developing the young players and grooming them to be the foundation for our next run. That should be the #1 priority.

Now, that's not going to be easy to do when you have megastar Kobe Bryant on the team.

That's why some people think, including the majority of actual experts, that we'll be able to develop the young players more quickly, without being in the shadow of a franchise great who is all that anyone cares about.


I just don't get this line of thinking. Is it factually true that the young guns can't develop playing next to Kobe? Of course not. Yet, you keep presenting it as such. The focus of this season is to win more games, which includes developing our youngsters and getting quality contributions from our vets including Kobe. Kobe being effective and the development of the kids isn't mutually exclusive.

I acknowledge that Kobe could derail their development if he adopts the same mindset he had last season where he just really didn't respect the talent on the squad. However, I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have that same mindset with this year's squad.

Having Kobe on the squad obviously takes shots and possessions away from the young guys, but that doesn't mean that they still can't benefit tremendously from his presence. There is a lot of wisdom they can glean from Kobe just by talking to him, watching his game preparation and observing how he plays the game and uses his skills to compensate for his diminished athletic ability. Let's not forget that his presence on the court will also create easy opportunities for them as the defense keys in on him.

Your opinion of how Kobe will affect things going forward is a POSSIBILITY - not an INEVITABILITY.


You're right. It is not a foregone conclusion that the Lakers cannot rebuild with Kobe. But it's also a risk as you pointed out. I mean, heck, you can't empirically or factually prove that you cannot win with a 52 year old Kobe Bryant making max money. But it's a risk. (Not the same level of risk, clearly).

It's just more often the case that when they're trying to build a new foundation, they move on from the old foundation as opposed to retaining it. That's why a lot of people think that's what we should do (i.e. these insiders). Is it a fact that you have to do it that way? Not at all. But I can't think of many instances where it was done though either.

But I think it's fair to say that these young guys need to eat, and there is only one pie. So unless Kobe is willing to give up a sizable chunk of that pie, then it would be best IMO, to make the painful decision to move on.

So what if Kobe goes nuts taking 23 shots per game, scoring 27 PPG this year. What do you do? I don't think it's that easy to say oh well, sign up for 3 more years of that is it?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
activeverb wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


Anonymous sources have their place. People will tell you things anonymously that they would never dare say publically, so you sometimes have to use this approach to get the truth or at least one version of truth.


Bingo.

Which is also why when using non-named sources, you generally want to have a lot of them.


I guess what you're saying is if you aren't naming names you want to be able to say "Interviews with more than two dozen people" as a code for "Hey, I did a lot of research so trust that what I'm saying is true."

There is some benefit to that. In terms of the piece itself, the number of sources is more related to the type of piece you're doing rather than whether the sources are anonymous or on-the-record.

For example,a big part of this piece was being able to reveal the poll of NBA insiders, so you'd want as many as you could practically get no matter whether you used people's names or not.


What a couple of jerk-offs....

24 anonymous sources agree. Anonymous and sample size? You can't argue it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
activeverb wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


Anonymous sources have their place. People will tell you things anonymously that they would never dare say publically, so you sometimes have to use this approach to get the truth or at least one version of truth.


Bingo.

Which is also why when using non-named sources, you generally want to have a lot of them.


I guess what you're saying is if you aren't naming names you want to be able to say "Interviews with more than two dozen people" as a code for "Hey, I did a lot of research so trust that what I'm saying is true."

There is some benefit to that. In terms of the piece itself, the number of sources is more related to the type of piece you're doing rather than whether the sources are anonymous or on-the-record.

For example,a big part of this piece was being able to reveal the poll of NBA insiders, so you'd want as many as you could practically get no matter whether you used people's names or not.


What a couple of jerk-offs....

24 anonymous sources agree. Anonymous and sample size? You can't argue it.


So you think it was entirely fabricated or ... What?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject:

Anyone with a brain knows they picked the sources that fit their agenda and gave them the answers they wanted to hear. Hell some might be totally fabricated, anonymity is a powerful word. It's already clear they probably used a lot of ESPN insiders who hold strong biases. The articles trash.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Anyone with a brain knows they picked the sources that fit their agenda and gave them the answers they wanted to hear. Hell some might be totally fabricated, anonymity is a powerful word. It's already clear they probably used a lot of ESPN insiders who hold strong biases. The articles trash.


What was their agenda? Because not all of the sources gave them the answers they wanted depending on what you think their agenda was.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Anyone with a brain knows they picked the sources that fit their agenda and gave them the answers they wanted to hear. Hell some might be totally fabricated, anonymity is a powerful word. It's already clear they probably used a lot of ESPN insiders who hold strong biases. The articles trash.


What was their agenda? Because not all of the sources gave them the answers they wanted depending on what you think their agenda was.



I'm done with your schtick dude.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:36 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.

Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen.......


Right now? Right now is irrelevant to this discussion really.

And you highlight the exact reason why many of the "insiders" feel it is best to move on from Kobe. Because as long as he thinks he's still the top dog, he will never take a backseat.

But him taking a backseat, is perhaps, exactly what this team needs.


Kobe taking a back seat, to who, Nick I wish I was Kobe Young. And who cares about the " insiders ". Kobe will not embarrass himself, he will know when it is time to take a backseat.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Anonymous sources are how they get to pick and choose people who will give them the answers they're looking for in order to continue their biased narrative. Some of these "insiders" LOL are already known, they're ESPN guys like Amin Elhassan, Henry Abbott and Ethan Strauss among others, all known Kobe haters.

Can't wait until these ESPN writers have to actually write about basketball after Kobe retires.

People know that ESPN has written more articles about Kobe than any other athlete since they started their website? That's an actual fact not exaggerated BS. That gravy train is going to run out soon.


ESPN's channel got legs by constant coverage of Jordan

ESPN's big break came when they got the rights to ESPN Sunday Night Football from the NFL back in 1985 or so. Before that, there were real questions if ESPN would survive. ESPN Sunday Night Football became their cash & ratings cow - not MJ.
Considering the fact that on % of viewership the NFL (35%), MLB (17%), College Football, and NASCAR (8%) lead the NBA (right around 6% for over a decade now) - that'd indicate that the NBA is somewhat minor in overall importance.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:52 pm    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
activeverb wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
? It's getting ridiculous what these guys are reporting considering guys like Kevin Durant, Chris Paul and many others have explicitly stated the opposite of what's been reported yet none of those quotes are used. Instead he uses unnamed sources because Baxter Holmes has an agenda.


Anonymous sources have their place. People will tell you things anonymously that they would never dare say publically, so you sometimes have to use this approach to get the truth or at least one version of truth.


Bingo.

Which is also why when using non-named sources, you generally want to have a lot of them.


I guess what you're saying is if you aren't naming names you want to be able to say "Interviews with more than two dozen people" as a code for "Hey, I did a lot of research so trust that what I'm saying is true."

There is some benefit to that. In terms of the piece itself, the number of sources is more related to the type of piece you're doing rather than whether the sources are anonymous or on-the-record.

For example,a big part of this piece was being able to reveal the poll of NBA insiders, so you'd want as many as you could practically get no matter whether you used people's names or not.


What a couple of jerk-offs....

24 anonymous sources agree. Anonymous and sample size? You can't argue it.


I am sorry this is all so frustrating for you.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.

Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen.......


Right now? Right now is irrelevant to this discussion really.

And you highlight the exact reason why many of the "insiders" feel it is best to move on from Kobe. Because as long as he thinks he's still the top dog, he will never take a backseat.

But him taking a backseat, is perhaps, exactly what this team needs.


Kobe taking a back seat, to who, Nick I wish I was Kobe Young. And who cares about the " insiders ". Kobe will not embarrass himself, he will know when it is time to take a backseat.


In particular -- Randle, Clarkson and Russell.

And backseat not in terms of Kobe takes orders from them, but more, they are the focal point of the team.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
What the FO will do if Kobe does want to come back. I honestly don't think that Kobe knows now if he will retire or not. Jim Buss has already laid the groundwork for what Kobe needs to expect if he wants to return, a defined contract and a defined role. Of course, Jeannie could always overrule that.


Just Jeannie or the other kids too? They all have equal stake, and if it's determined that Kobe is still a moneymaker...

I hope Jim is not just blowing smoke. He was reportedly dubious on the last extension as well before ultimately caving.


This is just my semi-educated speculation, but I expect both Mitch and Jim would have preferred to have flexibility very giving Kobe the extension. That's not to say they wouldn't have ultimately paid him, but they certainly would have liked to have more control and ability to look at a lot of stuff. They couldn't, however, go toe to toe with Jeanie, because the PR hit would have been monumental, and would have been further anti-Jim ammunition.

So if you want to think in a Machiavellian way, Jeanie forcing the Kobe deal through actually hurt the team's flexibility, and perhaps its appeal to bigger names. The team would have been far better off going with single year decisions.

There hasn't been a single indication that Jeannie alone was the reason Kobe got that extension. 2 years ago I read posters (such as you) state that Jerry Buss had given the orders before death, and Jim was following them. Now it's Jeannie? Why we can't keep a story straight. Lakers felt they owed their franchise player, and gave him the BOD that perhaps he could still be a star.I don't think anyone really expected Kobe to be as MIA as he was the last 2 years. And I'll add my perception - I think the Lakers were somewhat afraid of Kobe going elsewhere, with the FA looming. They didn't want to lose their 1 star who was the driving force in keeping attention on LA. This wasn't just Jeannie, or PR pressure, in fact they got more negative PR than positive PR for giving Kobe that deal in 2013. As I recall, most fans were against the contract Bryant got, and the media didn't exactly parade it either. It wasn't viewed as any kind of PR success from my vantage point.
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evetssteve10
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
I don't see how this season is irrelevant. If Kobe balls like I think he's going to this year then it has a very big impact on next year - after next year he will retire if he doesn't after this year so 3 years from now IS definitely irrelevant. I am also of the opinions that Kobe helps this team a lot more than he hurts it.


This season is irrelevant, because the team's focus SHOULD be on developing the young players and grooming them to be the foundation for our next run. That should be the #1 priority.

Now, that's not going to be easy to do when you have megastar Kobe Bryant on the team.

That's why some people think, including the majority of actual experts, that we'll be able to develop the young players more quickly, without being in the shadow of a franchise great who is all that anyone cares about.


I just don't get this line of thinking. Is it factually true that the young guns can't develop playing next to Kobe? Of course not. Yet, you keep presenting it as such. The focus of this season is to win more games, which includes developing our youngsters and getting quality contributions from our vets including Kobe. Kobe being effective and the development of the kids isn't mutually exclusive.

I acknowledge that Kobe could derail their development if he adopts the same mindset he had last season where he just really didn't respect the talent on the squad. However, I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have that same mindset with this year's squad.

Having Kobe on the squad obviously takes shots and possessions away from the young guys, but that doesn't mean that they still can't benefit tremendously from his presence. There is a lot of wisdom they can glean from Kobe just by talking to him, watching his game preparation and observing how he plays the game and uses his skills to compensate for his diminished athletic ability. Let's not forget that his presence on the court will also create easy opportunities for them as the defense keys in on him.

Your opinion of how Kobe will affect things going forward is a POSSIBILITY - not an INEVITABILITY.


You're right. It is not a foregone conclusion that the Lakers cannot rebuild with Kobe. But it's also a risk as you pointed out. I mean, heck, you can't empirically or factually prove that you cannot win with a 52 year old Kobe Bryant making max money. But it's a risk. (Not the same level of risk, clearly).

It's just more often the case that when they're trying to build a new foundation, they move on from the old foundation as opposed to retaining it. That's why a lot of people think that's what we should do (i.e. these insiders). Is it a fact that you have to do it that way? Not at all. But I can't think of many instances where it was done though either.

But I think it's fair to say that these young guys need to eat, and there is only one pie. So unless Kobe is willing to give up a sizable chunk of that pie, then it would be best IMO, to make the painful decision to move on.

So what if Kobe goes nuts taking 23 shots per game, scoring 27 PPG this year. What do you do? I don't think it's that easy to say oh well, sign up for 3 more years of that is it?



See yea we are just on totally ends of the spectrum right now, and that's okay. I just think the complete opposite and that Kobe is going to very positively effect the development of these guys. There is no better player to learn from, and the last thing you want to do is throw our basically 3 rookies into the shark tank right away - their games will benefit so much from the attention Kobe gets and his playmaking abilities when he's with them. Not to mention what the other poster mentioned about his preparation and everything else.

Not only that but we will have a chance to win more games period, and that is always good when developing guys. You want them to be a part of a winning environment as early as possible. Kobe has also proven throughout his career that he will adapt his game to the personel and situation around him. People can't say that Shaq had more to do with our three peat while also saying Kobe is a gunner.

Kobe easily could have averaged 40 on those teams but he toned his game down for the sake of the team and fulfilled the Jordan and pippen role. The only reason we saw the Kobe he was from last year was because of the situation around him and that's also a big part of the reason why his efficiency was terrible.

So yea, not only do I think the young guys can develop with Kobe I would actually say it's essential that they do.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject:

^ Fair enough. So 5 years, $25M per?

How much are you willing to pay, and for how long for the essential development of the young guys?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Voices wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.

Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen.......


Right now? Right now is irrelevant to this discussion really.

And you highlight the exact reason why many of the "insiders" feel it is best to move on from Kobe. Because as long as he thinks he's still the top dog, he will never take a backseat.

But him taking a backseat, is perhaps, exactly what this team needs.


Kobe taking a back seat, to who, Nick I wish I was Kobe Young. And who cares about the " insiders ". Kobe will not embarrass himself, he will know when it is time to take a backseat.


In particular -- Randle, Clarkson and Russell.

And backseat not in terms of Kobe takes orders from them, but more, they are the focal point of the team.


Kobe played great again tonight, he is polished smooth. Kobe is still a player that always has to be accounted for. The young Lakers can learn a whole bunch from Kobe. Kobe still has moves that others can only dream about. Randle and Kobe have very good chemistry that is a very good sign of respect for each other. Kobe is a leader and it is showing.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject:

evetssteve10 wrote:


See yea we are just on totally ends of the spectrum right now, and that's okay. I just think the complete opposite and that Kobe is going to very positively effect the development of these guys. There is no better player to learn from, and the last thing you want to do is throw our basically 3 rookies into the shark tank right away - their games will benefit so much from the attention Kobe gets and his playmaking abilities when he's with them. Not to mention what the other poster mentioned about his preparation and everything else.

Not only that but we will have a chance to win more games period, and that is always good when developing guys. You want them to be a part of a winning environment as early as possible. Kobe has also proven throughout his career that he will adapt his game to the personel and situation around him. People can't say that Shaq had more to do with our three peat while also saying Kobe is a gunner.

Kobe easily could have averaged 40 on those teams but he toned his game down for the sake of the team and fulfilled the Jordan and pippen role. The only reason we saw the Kobe he was from last year was because of the situation around him and that's also a big part of the reason why his efficiency was terrible.

So yea, not only do I think the young guys can develop with Kobe I would actually say it's essential that they do.


It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I think we are going to be near the bottom of the league in defense, rebounding and 3-point shooting. So there's potential for a lot of double-digit losses, especially early in the season.

Hopefully, that doesn't create an environment where everyone becomes so frustrated that everything goes haywire. Personally, I think all that matters is the patient development of the young players. But I think, this being the Lakers, there's going to be a lot of impatience, and a lot of frustration when people process that the young guys aren't going to be all-stars out of the box.

Not sure how Kobe will react to the poor play and young teammates who are going to be up and down. Assuming he stays healthy, I wouldn't be shocked to see him having one of those up and down years where one night he's Mr. Facilitator and the next night he tries to take over the game.

But I think everyone better strap on their flack jackets and get ready for a rough season.
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