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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject:

Ya to have Russell go through to the other corner and have Kobe fill his role on that play would have made that much smoother,quicker. More time on the shot clock and having someone as a shooter in the corner would also be beneficial there. right on.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
24 wrote:
Randle needs that jumper to pick and pop, which also opens up the delayed roll/cut, and the swing pass for a face up attack.

Just for fun, with Randle's handling and passing skills, would be interesting to see him be the ballhandler on some unconventional pick and roll actions.


He and Hibbert ran one pick n roll last night. Randle missed a small window for a throw over the top, then brought the ball back out and drove/kick to Russell for an open 3. https://vine.co/v/e216uWHzZ9Y


Good find. Yeah, I noticed the Lakers this season borrowing several of the simpler sets that the Clippers run, which is slightly encouraging. Of course, this particular screen isn't exclusive to the Clippers, as we used to run it with Pau.

I wish they would go further with the borrowing and modernize their motion sets, like the one above.



For example, this play would be much better if:

1) Russell pushed the ball quickly up the floor and cut to the weak side in a thru action immediately after throwing it to Randle on the wing.

2) Hibbert came to the top as the trailer to receive the pass from Randle

3) Kobe uses the Clarkson screen under the basket to take the ball handler role

4) Either Russell or Clarkson fills the corner 3 area for either a direct pass or a potential swing pass.

You buy yourself ten extra seconds on the shot clock, and you get all five players involved on the play. The players are also already spotted up at the three point line rather than just on their way there.

Look how much time is left on the clock when the Clippers finish this thru action:
https://streamable.com/nghx


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject:

^ Yup, if they had Kobe run that route instead, he'd actually have a lane, or at least force help off the corner.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
^ Yup, if they had Kobe run that route instead, he'd actually have a lane, or at least force help off the corner.


Which is where Kobe should go after he sets the screen.

These things are frustrating to me. Points are being left on the floor because of basic schematic flaws.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
^ Yup, if they had Kobe run that route instead, he'd actually have a lane, or at least force help off the corner.


Which is where Kobe should go after he sets the screen.

These things are frustrating to me. Points are being left on the floor because of basic schematic flaws.


Kobe only shot 85.7% on threes from that corner last year. Lets not ruin the opportunity for him to get his 41% on 2 point attempts from the post (while getting in the way).
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject:

Half Court Hoops put up a preliminary video playbook for the Lakers:



Starting to watch it now. Maybe mod's can embed it in a post in this thread.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
^ Yup, if they had Kobe run that route instead, he'd actually have a lane, or at least force help off the corner.


Which is where Kobe should go after he sets the screen.

These things are frustrating to me. Points are being left on the floor because of basic schematic flaws.


Kobe only shot 85.7% on threes from that corner last year. Lets not ruin the opportunity for him to get his 41% on 2 point attempts from the post (while getting in the way).


I love you two so much for the bball knowledge you drop!

But dang if it isn't depressing reading how much we screw up the easy stuff when I read this thread.

I don't understand how no one is doing anything about this
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Half Court Hoops put up a preliminary video playbook for the Lakers:



Starting to watch it now. Maybe mod's can embed it in a post in this thread.


I tried, but can't get it to embed properly
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:57 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Half Court Hoops put up a preliminary video playbook for the Lakers:



Starting to watch it now. Maybe mod's can embed it in a post in this thread.


I tried, but can't get it to embed properly


noob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
24 wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Half Court Hoops put up a preliminary video playbook for the Lakers:



Starting to watch it now. Maybe mod's can embed it in a post in this thread.


I tried, but can't get it to embed properly


noob


PM me with how you did that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:15 am    Post subject:

It was great seeing the effort from the team and especially Randle clawing back the lead against the Jazz second unit.

There were some things against the Jazz first unit that concerned me though. It was too easy to shut down our offense, and we fell in a big hole early. The Jazz had already played us once and knew how to counter our stagnant offense. They pressured the initiator to take time off the clock and then denied the first option of lot of our predictable sets.

Often, our first pass was with around 16 seconds left on the clock or less, with us wasting time first calling the play and then walking the ball up the floor. With limited time, poor counters, and no angles, we either put up bad shots or turned it over, letting them run against our poorly weak (albeit slightly better than the other night) transition defense.



In our own half court defense, we offered no resistance to the PG taking the ball off the court, jogging up to our side, and letting them get into their offense quickly. Generally they had twice as time as we do to run their offense. We had a lot of unwise switches on D that got us in trouble. Some of our switches are good, but often times they were forced in order to cover up for gambles, and left holes in our help defense that they exploited.

Once they started to put the ball in the basket, we couldn't score and then the ball started going downhill for them with their transition opportunities and early offense. The second unit couldn't exploit these things quite as well, because we had better players on the floor, and played with more energy- but it could be a recurring weakness against other teams.

We should be getting the ball up the court quickly, and either developing better counters to denial, or quickly going to some of the sets that we have better suited to dealing with pressure.



We should also look at extending the ball pressure on the opposing PG rather than hanging back all the time, as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:48 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
It was great seeing the effort from the team and especially Randle clawing back the lead against the Jazz second unit.

There were some things against the Jazz first unit that concerned me though. It was too easy to shut down our offense, and we fell in a big hole early. The Jazz had already played us once and knew how to counter our stagnant offense. They pressured the initiator to take time off the clock and then denied the first option of lot of our predictable sets.

Often, our first pass was with around 16 seconds left on the clock or less, with us wasting time first calling the play and then walking the ball up the floor. With limited time, poor counters, and no angles, we either put up bad shots or turned it over, letting them run against our poorly weak (albeit slightly better than the other night) transition defense.



In our own half court defense, we offered no resistance to the PG taking the ball off the court, jogging up to our side, and letting them get into their offense quickly. Generally they had twice as time as we do to run their offense. We had a lot of unwise switches on D that got us in trouble. Some of our switches are good, but often times they were forced in order to cover up for gambles, and left holes in our help defense that they exploited.

Once they started to put the ball in the basket, we couldn't score and then the ball started going downhill for them with their transition opportunities and early offense. The second unit couldn't exploit these things quite as well, because we had better players on the floor, and played with more energy- but it could be a recurring weakness against other teams.

We should be getting the ball up the court quickly, and either developing better counters to denial, or quickly going to some of the sets that we have better suited to dealing with pressure.



We should also look at extending the ball pressure on the opposing PG rather than hanging back all the time, as well.
Byron has got to see this. They bottled us up pretty good in the 1st quarter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:52 am    Post subject:

Yeah. What's the point of all the killer training camp conditioning if you're walking it up? I thought we were trying to run and gun more ergo the need for conditioning.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.


and honestly, even if he did flare to the corner three, that's roy hibbert with the ball at the top of the key. he ain't making a good pass. gotta put a better passer in that role. no idea why gobert is even guarding roy that far out
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:47 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.


and honestly, even if he did flare to the corner three, that's roy hibbert with the ball at the top of the key. he ain't making a good pass. gotta put a better passer in that role. no idea why gobert is even guarding roy that far out


It's Russell's pass to make, not Hibbert's on that play.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.


and honestly, even if he did flare to the corner three, that's roy hibbert with the ball at the top of the key. he ain't making a good pass. gotta put a better passer in that role. no idea why gobert is even guarding roy that far out


It's Russell's pass to make, not Hibbert's on that play.


I don't think we're talking about the same play. GT was referencing the first play in the video where Hibbert has the ball at the top of the key and Burke cheats.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject:

I don't have the time or means to do a detailed breakdown, but we're over-helping on the weak side and getting burned from deep as a result.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.


and honestly, even if he did flare to the corner three, that's roy hibbert with the ball at the top of the key. he ain't making a good pass. gotta put a better passer in that role. no idea why gobert is even guarding roy that far out


It's Russell's pass to make, not Hibbert's on that play.


I don't think we're talking about the same play. GT was referencing the first play in the video where Hibbert has the ball at the top of the key and Burke cheats.


Ah my bad- I thought you were talking about Kobe not going to corner instead of Russell not fading back on that play.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


That play is schematically flawed because both posts are occupied, one by Kobe, one by Hibbert. Russell had the advantage on the handoff, but there's no route to the basket, even aside from Gobert's hedge.

On the first play in that video, Russell needs to read the defender and fade to the corner for the 3. Can't let Burke meet up with him on the wing like that.


and honestly, even if he did flare to the corner three, that's roy hibbert with the ball at the top of the key. he ain't making a good pass. gotta put a better passer in that role. no idea why gobert is even guarding roy that far out


It's Russell's pass to make, not Hibbert's on that play.


I don't think we're talking about the same play. GT was referencing the first play in the video where Hibbert has the ball at the top of the key and Burke cheats.


Ah my bad- I thought you were talking about Kobe not going to corner instead of Russell not fading back on that play.


To play devil's advocate, it might have been a broken sequence based on a read of how Hood was playing the screen cuz Kobe tried to backdoor Hood (a lob to the rim for a younger Kobe as soon as D'angelo got the ball on the handoff would have been an alleyoop yam).

Then again Utah defended well and Kobe is old and that pass is probably impossible for even the most brilliant passer in the world to make...so meh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject:

OK, regarding the defensive issues against the Raptors, I'll try to go through the opposing team's highlights to point out the breakdown. There are some moving parts in there, depending on the particular scheme, so others may have different interpretations on the plays.

Kyle Lowry & DeMarre Carroll highlights


Play 1: Randle is on Carroll on a switch. He overcommits to go help on the roll man, leaving his man an open three one pass away. I think it should have been Kobe going into the middle of the paint, ready to close back out two passes away.

Play 2: I don't like Clarkson's stance while Kobe is still there. Makes it harder for him to close out quickly. Despite not even helping in the paint, Kobe is still a step slow on his own closeout. He should have already been moving back out when the first pass was in the air. I think Swaggy should have been there on the roll man while Nance plays safety on both weak side shooters.

Play 3: Nance on Carroll on a switch with Kobe. He does a poor job in getting over the screen after he ices it, leaving Carroll open for the mid range shot. He should turn and run around over the top, rather than trying to slide through it.

Play 4: Metta is can't recover from his close out and Nance is maybe a step late on the help. Not as bad as the other plays.

Play 5: Lou loses focus completely and gets caught on the screen, giving up an open 3.

Play 6 (0:49): Upshaw late in stepping up. Notice that Metta does pick up his man in the paint this time.

Play 7: Three guys try to track the ball handler in transition, giving up the corner 3.

Play 8: Just a good move by the Raptors center over Hibbert

Play 9: Again, I'd much rather have Randle plant himself in the middle of the paint than Clarkson helping one pass away with no hope of recovering. We saw way too much of this last season.

Play 10: Swaggy gets caught on off ball screens

Play 11 (1:35): Lowry fools Clarkson on the cut. But at the same time Nance doesn't need to leave the paint to track a backpedaling Patterson.

Play 12: Clarkson gets nailed getting over the screen and Lowry draws a foul on Upshaw. He looked completely unaware it was coming, so it could have been Upshaw's fault for not calling it.

Play 13: Lowry bulls in for a foul on Nick

Play 14 (2:18): Clarkson has a decent tag on the roll man, and then goes to close out on Lowry. Where he goes wrong is that he should have already shifted toward Randle's man on the pass, so he doesn't need to cover as much ground on the help. When he does go to help, he has no chance of recovering back to his man, and it's another open 3 one pass away.

Play 15: Lowry takes Clarkson 1 on 1 in the paint. Doesn't look like he has good balance there.

Play 16: Kobe does a decent job getting around the pindown screen, but just better offense from Carroll.

Play 17: Good misdirection kickout pass from Lowry there, though Kobe probably should have been in a better stance.

Play 18: Good attack by Lowry. But Clarkson probably could have done a better job getting around the screens and staying somewhat attached to him on the handoff. He needs to improve on those, but at the same time the Raptors center sets pretty good screens.

Play 19 (3:06): Lou does a poor job getting around the screen but Lowry elects to pull back and isolate on him. Lou is overmatched, but Upshaw could have been a step in a better position to help.

Play 20: Upshaw not in a good position to either hedge or drop on Lowry. Nick distracted by a potential backdoor cut and doesn't step in to help.

There's also a Cory Joseph video, although much of that was of him exploiting Upshaw's mistakes. Overall, the game showed the flaws in our perimeter defenders and the inexperience in our young interior guys. Our help rotations have problems as well, but it's hard to tell whether that is a schematic issue or an execution issue because they weren't consistent from play to play.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject:

Notice one thing you don't mention: Hibbert.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:56 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Notice one thing you don't mention: Hibbert.


The drop off defensively from Hibbert to Upshaw was massive.

I also think the perimeter help defense would have been better with Russell on the nail rather than Clarkson and Jabari.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
24 wrote:
Notice one thing you don't mention: Hibbert.
The drop off defensively from Hibbert to Upshaw was massive.

I also think the perimeter help defense would have been better with Russell on the nail rather than Clarkson and Jabari.
Thanks for your revealing and informative breakdowns.

With Jabari Brown likely to be cut, that will be one problem solved

The other situations appears to be the kids learning their strengths on playing D and utilizing them

Upshaw's previous dependence on his own physical skills and talent to be successful (in his limited PT) in college is not enough for the NBA - he has admitted that.

He has the great potential to meet a strong need to have a rim protector. Bass and Black provide other things. His lack of knowledge and experience in handling the various defensive schemes can only be addressed on the court
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject:

Here's a nice listing of smart NBA writers and content providers who can help expand everyone's knowledge on the league:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3olt67/the_nba_phd_program_year_2/
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