OFFICIAL Kobe Bryant P&M Thread
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Dave20
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Some crazy stats...

- Kobe's usage rate this season is great than 13 of his 19 prior seasons

- Kobe is averaging more field goal attempts per game than points. That just seems really absurdly rare.

- Someone did a comparison of his FG% vs Starters, compared to his FG% vs Bench and apparently the latter was great but the former was abysmal. We'll never bench Kobe but it's some food for thought.
Those stats are mind boggling.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Kobe Top 5!!

LakersLegacy24 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
LakersLegacy24 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
LakersLegacy24 wrote:
Y'all are some serious haters.

Kobe is still no doubt a top 5 player in the league when healthy, its obvious he is injured right now. When he gets healthy and is dropping 35 a game again I don't want to hear a peep from any of you.

Next year when he is recovered and with the development of the new players Kobe will be getting #6 and passing Jordan as the all time GOAT. Its that simple.



You won't be laughing when he is holding up #6 next year. It's not Kobes fault that he has to play with the dumpster fire that is our roster and Byron the potato head as the coach.


You need to get back in to your time machine. It's 2015. Not 2011. You ok over there?

Kobe's retiring. Just thought you'd want to know.

Give Kobe a better supporting cast and he is shooting 45% with 25-5-5 and the Lakers are making the playoffs. Management is sabatoshing him and I can't believe y'all cant see it.

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bonkers
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject:

bonkers wrote:
Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes


Are the Lakers paying men or children?
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:33 pm    Post subject:

bonkers wrote:
Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes

That's why Pau and Shaq were so good for Kobe. Neither was afraid to call Kobe out in the press. These guys are more Lamar like, especially Russ, in that they defer far too easily to Bryant. Pau OTOH while also not the alpha personality, was definitely not afraid to tell Bryant that he needed to pass the the ball to him.

Anyway, next season it'll be a completely different situation.
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bonkers
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes

That's why Pau and Shaq were so good for Kobe. Neither was afraid to call Kobe out in the press. These guys are more Lamar like, especially Russ, in that they defer far too easily to Bryant. Pau OTOH while also not the alpha personality, was definitely not afraid to tell Bryant that he needed to pass the the ball to him.

Anyway, next season it'll be a completely different situation.


What about Ron?
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Some crazy stats...

- Kobe's usage rate this season is great than 13 of his 19 prior seasons

- Kobe is averaging more field goal attempts per game than points. That just seems really absurdly rare.

- Someone did a comparison of his FG% vs Starters, compared to his FG% vs Bench and apparently the latter was great but the former was abysmal. We'll never bench Kobe but it's some food for thought.


He's also taking a career high number of 3PAs (7 per game) despite shooting a career low in percentage (if you don't count the 6 games from 2013).
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zeroakuma
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Even if Kobe Bryant was healthy, he would still be shooting under 40 percent while attempting 20 plus shots. There is no system established to assist the future of the Lakers; the current roster is filled with rookies, someone's trash, and Kobe Bryant, a selfish and washed up player.

If Kobe wants to help build a positive direction for the team, he should come off the bench, ask the management to strictly manage his playing time under 20 minutes, and provide guidance to our youngsters.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Kobe Top 5!!

jodeke wrote:
LakersLegacy24 wrote:
Y'all are some serious haters.

Kobe is still no doubt a top 5 player in the league when healthy, its obvious he is injured right now. When he gets healthy and is dropping 35 a game again I don't want to hear a peep from any of you.

Next year when he is recovered and with the development of the new players Kobe will be getting #6 and passing Jordan as the all time GOAT. Its that simple.
Welcome to LG LL. LINK


Yeah, his first day here hasn't really revealed him to be an asset. It's fine to have an opinion, but to come charging in with an antagonistic attitude is another. My guess is if he keeps it up, "welcome" will become "adios" soon enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
If experiencing now is a byproduct of the excellence he gave us for 2 decades all is good. Unfortunately it's our coach who is making us unwatchable not Kobe.


Sums it up well quite succinctly.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Some crazy stats...

- Kobe's usage rate this season is great than 13 of his 19 prior seasons

- Kobe is averaging more field goal attempts per game than points. That just seems really absurdly rare.

- Someone did a comparison of his FG% vs Starters, compared to his FG% vs Bench and apparently the latter was great but the former was abysmal. We'll never bench Kobe but it's some food for thought.


He's also taking a career high number of 3PAs (7 per game) despite shooting a career low in percentage (if you don't count the 6 games from 2013).


Good add. Last count, I think his 3PM percentage was an abysmal 19.5%. For perspective, Steph Curry's career average is 7 3PA per game, and he has never shot below 42% in any season from that mark.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Former greatness juxtaposed with merely pedestrian and all the complaining associated with such a drop is the normal arch of all the greats and sort of a badge of honor.

People shouldn't feel guilty about complaining and criticizing Kobe's current pedestrian/bad play. This is just a normal stage of greatness and testimony to the heights he once reached. Complaining about the late career sub par performance of former greats is just part of the wild ride. Enjoy it and don't let anybody shame you into not participating.
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes

That's why Pau and Shaq were so good for Kobe. Neither was afraid to call Kobe out in the press. These guys are more Lamar like, especially Russ, in that they defer far too easily to Bryant. Pau OTOH while also not the alpha personality, was definitely not afraid to tell Bryant that he needed to pass the the ball to him.

Anyway, next season it'll be a completely different situation.


You're expecting the rookie to confront Kobe?

I'm curious if Swaggy is speaking only for himself or on behalf of other teammates.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
If experiencing now is a byproduct of the excellence he gave us for 2 decades all is good. Unfortunately it's our coach who is making us unwatchable not Kobe.


Sums it up well quite succinctly.


I would rather not see decades of dominance self destruct in front of our eyes and delay the future of the team with it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject:

What happened to Kobe showing us his post moves?
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Chad09 wrote:
What happened to Kobe showing us his post moves?


The footwork is still there but you can't shoot the Jordan fall away when your legs are gone.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject:

BennyLava wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Halflife wrote:
If experiencing now is a byproduct of the excellence he gave us for 2 decades all is good. Unfortunately it's our coach who is making us unwatchable not Kobe.


Sums it up well quite succinctly.


I would rather not see decades of dominance self destruct in front of our eyes and delay the future of the team with it.


Yeah. I'm not sure how any of what we're seeing is "good".
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Chad09 wrote:
What happened to Kobe showing us his post moves?


They're still there on Youtube.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Quote:
Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina
Lakers have not talked to Kobe about shot. N. Young: "It’s hard to talk to somebody who’s a 5-year champ. You don’t want to step on his toes

That's why Pau and Shaq were so good for Kobe. Neither was afraid to call Kobe out in the press. These guys are more Lamar like, especially Russ, in that they defer far too easily to Bryant. Pau OTOH while also not the alpha personality, was definitely not afraid to tell Bryant that he needed to pass the the ball to him.

Anyway, next season it'll be a completely different situation.


You're expecting the rookie to confront Kobe?

I'm curious if Swaggy is speaking only for himself or on behalf of other teammates.


The damn coach can't even confront Kobe. It can only be Mitch or Jim at this point.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:07 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Chad09 wrote:
What happened to Kobe showing us his post moves?


They're still there on Youtube.


I was just watching them. Now all we get is crappy 3's.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kobeslaker wrote:
You have to think other aspect. If your coach and management don't talk to you and work with you to define your role, then how Kobe can suddenly be a role player?

We don't have any offensive strategy, so even when Kobe doesn't play, we still see a lot guys play ISO ball. It's not like Kobe taking chances from young players, it's coach and management don't create an environment that players can work well with each other, instead, they just throw players on the court and let them died.

Kobe plays really bad, that is the truth, but the lakers didn't do anything helpful. You have to define players' role and tell everyone how to do it, put them in the right position.

Just look at Bass and Lou, they are good players before come to lakers, then Scott put Bass at five, make him look like scrub, and tell a shooting guard like Lou to be a facilitator, that's what really went wrong.

The coach and management are a mess, they don't even know what are they doing, that's why players look lost on the court, because no one knows what they should do.


I don't think anyone "blames" Kobe for just being bad at this point.

The issue, is if you're bad at this point, why are you taking more shots than anyone? Why demand the ball when you know damn well you're going to get whatever you ask for on the court? If Kobe were 2-6 bad every night, not as big of a deal.


I think Kobe is trying to shoot himself out of it. He's less secure about his offense than he would be if he were only 2-6 and he looks a little too hasty to break out of the slump. When he gets criticized for shooting, he will dig in even harder sometimes. He once missed 30 shots in a single game, at age 23, not 37. He ain't bashful on offense, never has been. The worst thing he could do is have one of those games where he intentionally doesn't shoot to send a message to complainers. The furor would be much greater than it is for a 1/14 gm. A few yrs back, he was getting irritated by talk of his shot selection and shooting and he went on a prolonged streak as a set-up man. Iirc, that was shortly after he started off a game 0 for 13-15. I'd like to see him in that role until he's passed the worst of the storm.

That said, what he's shooting is moot. The franchise is driving the tank off into the horizon again.
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject:

I don't see why appreciating what Kobe has done in the past has to be lumped in with how he's playing in the present.

Heck, I appreciated what Byron did for this franchise in the past but I'm hating what he's doing to it in the present.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Chad09 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Chad09 wrote:
What happened to Kobe showing us his post moves?


They're still there on Youtube.


I was just watching them. Now all we get is crappy 3's.


As I've said before. It's not a surprise that Kobe is struggling. Ever since the achilles tear, I've felt he'd be done mainly because of his age and mileage on top of the devastating injury.

What irks me to no end, is the refusal to accept he is a shell of his former self and dial back a bunch. His usage rate is still higher than nearly 70% of every season of his career. Why, why, why, when you're maybe 5% of the player you've been for your career??
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject:

I would like to see Kobe embrace a new role. Sadly, it doesn't appear that is going to happen and as a result this season is doomed, not that it wouldn't be even if he did accept the new "facilitator" role I envision.
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
I would like to see Kobe embrace a new role. Sadly, it doesn't appear that is going to happen and as a result this season is doomed, not that it wouldn't be even if he did accept the new "facilitator" role I envision.


The only way to make an alpha dog become one of the pack is to put him with more alpha dogs. Unfortunately, we don't have any at the moment.
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