Dare I say it ... Dunn reminds me a lot of Damian Lillard, physically.
Right now Dunn doesn't have that 3 pt shooting like Lillard and does not have the explosiveness at the rim. Dunn does a great job attacking. His game reminds me of a mix between Lillard & Lowry. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate
Well the dream is to land the #1 pick, and trade it for Paul George. Then sign Whiteside. Finish 4th or 5th in the west and give Philly a crappy pick next year. Meanwhile, Philly gets the 3rd pick this year and takes Lassibierre
Grown man playing vs kids. Will have some good options at 32 hopefully (Luwawu, Valentine, Payton, Lucas) _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
Grown man playing vs kids. Will have some good options at 32 hopefully (Luwawu, Valentine, Payton, Lucas)
Luwawu would be a GREAT get at 32/33. He's putting up good numbers this year. Valentine will be a late lotto pick in this draft class IMO. Payton and Lucas would also be good to nab. Payton is a real talent. It's not beyond possibility that he could become starting level talent.
The more these guys play, the more meh I feel about this draft class outside of Simmons. I'd love Dunn if he could shoot.
Same. Simmons is the top pick, Dunn the safest, while Ingram has the highest ceiling (with an associated highest risk). Jaylen is a relatively safe pick with a lower ceiling. Hence my top 4 of Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Brown. I think Zhou Qi just on measurables is going to leap up the draft board at the end of the year due to a lot of the top hs prospects failing to impress in college.
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:14 am Post subject:
AY2043 wrote:
Well the dream is to land the #1 pick, and trade it for Paul George. Then sign Whiteside. Finish 4th or 5th in the west and give Philly a crappy pick next year. Meanwhile, Philly gets the 3rd pick this year and takes Lassibierre
If I make myself Pacer management for a moment, I'm at a loss as to why I would trade a proven franchise player (25 years old, approaching his prime, a scorer and defensive ace) for a run at another similar-looking but unproven college wing ? Nah, not going for that. _________________ “These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
my favorite players in this draft are showing out tonight. dunn ingram and simmons
I caught some of Ingram last night and might be able to be talked into him.
last night he was knocking down open 3s (and some contested 3s) off ball movement vs indiana's 2-3 zone
his game is based on his ability to hit jumpers with his elite size and length, with moderate ability to get to the basket in isolation. hang time and length help him stay in the air a beat longer than defenders to let him finish at the rim. when he hits his shots like last night, he can attack closeouts with a jab step/shot fake . his pet move out of isolation is a spin towards the paint for a midrange jumper that he can finish over the contest , , http://gfycat.com/SickIlliterateChicken.
in transition, has a "long" crossover to get to the rim. similar to KD's crossover that borders on a carry because of how long their arms are
knows how to use his length to his advantage, has a pro jumper with mechanics that project to improve over time. understands his weaknesses and works to improve on them - per coach K gained 23 pounds of muscle in the offseason before the cbb season started https://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/651491581279735808
ingram is all about potential. he's not as developed as some of the other guys but has imo the highest ceiling in the draft.
Last edited by 44TheLogo on Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total
The more these guys play, the more meh I feel about this draft class outside of Simmons. I'd love Dunn if he could shoot.
Same. Simmons is the top pick, Dunn the safest, while Ingram has the highest ceiling (with an associated highest risk). Jaylen is a relatively safe pick with a lower ceiling. Hence my top 4 of Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Brown. I think Zhou Qi just on measurables is going to leap up the draft board at the end of the year due to a lot of the top hs prospects failing to impress in college.
How does Ingram have a higher ceiling than Simmons? Just because a player is more raw and has a ways to go to reach their potential doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling. Simmons could legit be the best NBA player of his generation. That IS the ceiling. Simmons also happens to have a higher floor.
The more these guys play, the more meh I feel about this draft class outside of Simmons. I'd love Dunn if he could shoot.
Same. Simmons is the top pick, Dunn the safest, while Ingram has the highest ceiling (with an associated highest risk). Jaylen is a relatively safe pick with a lower ceiling. Hence my top 4 of Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Brown. I think Zhou Qi just on measurables is going to leap up the draft board at the end of the year due to a lot of the top hs prospects failing to impress in college.
How does Ingram have a higher ceiling than Simmons? Just because a player is more raw and has a ways to go to reach their potential doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling. Simmons could legit be the best NBA player of his generation. That IS the ceiling. Simmons also happens to have a higher floor.
How does Simmons have a higher ceiling than Simmons? Just because a player is more developed doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling. Ingram could legit be the best NBA player of his generation. That IS the ceiling. Ingram also happens to have elite length and size for his position.
The more these guys play, the more meh I feel about this draft class outside of Simmons. I'd love Dunn if he could shoot.
Same. Simmons is the top pick, Dunn the safest, while Ingram has the highest ceiling (with an associated highest risk). Jaylen is a relatively safe pick with a lower ceiling. Hence my top 4 of Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Brown. I think Zhou Qi just on measurables is going to leap up the draft board at the end of the year due to a lot of the top hs prospects failing to impress in college.
How does Ingram have a higher ceiling than Simmons? Just because a player is more raw and has a ways to go to reach their potential doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling. Simmons could legit be the best NBA player of his generation. That IS the ceiling. Simmons also happens to have a higher floor.
How does Simmons have a higher ceiling than Simmons? Just because a player is more developed doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling. Ingram could legit be the best NBA player of his generation. That IS the ceiling. Ingram also happens to have elite length and size for his position.
I think you meant Ingram.
I'm saying Simmons is better now AND has a higher ceiling. Just like when LeBron and Durant entered the league.
To put some numbers on it, I'd say Simmons is an 8 out 10 now, with his ceiling being a 10. I think Ingram is a 6.5 out of 10 now, with his ceiling being a 9. Higher floor, higher ceiling for Simmons.
I don't see Ingram being a transcendent talent, but he'll be a very good player.
I'm saying Simmons is better now AND has a higher ceiling. Just like when LeBron and Durant entered the league.
To put some numbers on it, I'd say Simmons is an 8 out 10 now, with his ceiling being a 10. I think Ingram is a 6.5 out of 10 now, with his ceiling being a 9. Higher floor, higher ceiling for Simmons.
I don't see Ingram being a transcendent talent, but he'll be a very good player.
You are missing my point entirely. The last two posts you have made have literally zero content that I can respond to. I could say the exact same things right back to you and there would be nothing gained whatsoever. I'm trying to get you to raise the level of discourse here.
For example: to put some numbers on it, I'd say Simmons is a 8 out of 10 now with his ceiling being a 9. I think Ingram is a 7 out of 10 now with his ceiling being a 10.
This conversation leads literally nowhere. I provided some analysis of Ingram above.
What do you see Simmons developing? Because I look at Ingram and I see the potential for a 25 point per game scorer with the length to be elite on defense and the athleticism to be a good rebounder. I look at Simmons and see limitations in his half court offensive potential due to his absolutely broken jump shot. Further, he projects as a 4 but doesn't have the elite length or elite athleticism to really dominate at that position - he's the number one pick right now because he's more of a sure thing at the moment, but he's got clear holes in his game. Ingrams main weakness is his frame, which will get stronger over time - his athleticism, ball handling, and shooting all project to be solid at the pro level and when coupled with his length, I do believe that he has more potential than Simmons does.
Don't take this as me (bleep) on Simmons, I still have him rated #1 thanks to his versatility, passing, court vision, and physical development. But it's close.
I'm saying Simmons is better now AND has a higher ceiling. Just like when LeBron and Durant entered the league.
To put some numbers on it, I'd say Simmons is an 8 out 10 now, with his ceiling being a 10. I think Ingram is a 6.5 out of 10 now, with his ceiling being a 9. Higher floor, higher ceiling for Simmons.
I don't see Ingram being a transcendent talent, but he'll be a very good player.
You are missing my point entirely. The last two posts you have made have literally zero content that I can respond to. I could say the exact same things right back to you and there would be nothing gained whatsoever. I'm trying to get you to raise the level of discourse here.
For example: to put some numbers on it, I'd say Simmons is a 8 out of 10 now with his ceiling being a 9. I think Ingram is a 7 out of 10 now with his ceiling being a 10.
This conversation leads literally nowhere. I provided some analysis of Ingram above.
What do you see Simmons developing? Because I look at Ingram and I see the potential for a 25 point per game scorer with the length to be elite on defense and the athleticism to be a good rebounder. I look at Simmons and see limitations in his half court offensive potential due to his absolutely broken jump shot. Further, he projects as a 4 but doesn't have the elite length or elite athleticism to really dominate at that position - he's the number one pick right now because he's more of a sure thing at the moment, but he's got clear holes in his game. Ingrams main weakness is his frame, which will get stronger over time - his athleticism, ball handling, and shooting all project to be solid at the pro level and when coupled with his length, I do believe that he has more potential than Simmons does.
Don't take this as me (bleep) on Simmons, I still have him rated #1 thanks to his versatility, passing, court vision, and physical development. But it's close.
Here's my thing about Ingram. When was the last time you saw a five-star freshman come in being touted as a top three pick and not be the best player on his team? Right now that player is Grayson Allen, who is a borderline lotto pick at best.
You put both of them in the NBA right now, and it's not even close, Simmons is the superior player. Which is insane considering Simmons still has room to grow as a shooter. I don't think Ingram has the all around game that Simmons does, and I don't think he'll ever consistently fill up the box score like Simmons. That's why I'm so high on Big Ben. Higher floor, higher ceiling. If you disagree, then you disagree. I have a feeling most NBA scouts are in my camp, however. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I also have to say that length for length's sake is vastly overrated and one of the reasons people liked Vonleh over Randle. Granted Ingram is a much better basketball player than Vonleh, but he's not using his length to his advantage on the boards like Durant did his freshman year. Ingram projects to be a modest rebounder at the next level. Hell, he's not even grabbing more boards than Russell did at Ohio State.
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