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PICKnPOP
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 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | He's not a scoring threat at all |
He can become one. Ball-handling/size/athleticism combinations are great indicators for scoring ability. |
Yeah, I think he can be too. Right now he has all the physical traits but I'm concerned that he hasn't even started working on a pet move. I think he's taken 2 jump shots this season so he has no confidence in his jumper. I'm not saying that he won't be a good player because I think he could be a triple double threat right now in the NBA, I guess I'm thinking about fit. I think Ingram can be that 20 ppl scorer but it may take 3-4 years. He's a full year younger than Simmons! |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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If we're going to compare Simmons to Randle, we have to look at their collegiate play. Not Simmons collegiate play to Randle's pro play. Randle was a proven stud in college. Simmons is getting there. Waay to early in either's career to call anything, but with a gun to my head I'd take Randle.
At the moment if we wound up with #1 overall I'd be shopping it for players like
George
Butler
Giannis
Gobert
Even WCS |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | LSU kinda blows. They are no longer in the 25 and they are losing to some questionable teams. The decision to go there may just blow up in Simmons face...especially if they don't make the tourney. |
Honestly I don't think Simmons really cared that much about winning a tourney in College. He's the number 1 pick regardless of where he goes so in his case, he just goes to the School he likes the most regardless of actually winning. |
I doubt that's how experts will look at it. I think they were a tourney team without hm last season and look like a worst team with him. |
Kevin Durant playing on a team that wasn't that good didn't have any impact on him. |
Durant was a scoring monster. Wasn't hard to see how he would translate. He could also score in a variety of ways. |
And it's hard to see how Simmons will translate? |
i don't think he's worth the top 3 pick. I don't see the difference between him and odom. He can rebound and push, run the PnR and prefers to pass. At least randle can go get you a bucket on top of all of that. |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| I think the NBA will send Simmons to Boston and in 5-6 years we will see Boston vs LA in the finals again. Randle vs Simmons |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| The Nets will win some games. They have too. I think they will have more wins then PHI,LA,DEN,SAC. |
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loseyourname
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
Feel for the game is almost impossible to develop. A jumper on the other hand... |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
Feel for the game is almost impossible to develop. A jumper on the other hand... |
That's true...but they can work on his decision making. A good coach like Walton would help Randle tremendously. Someone who will drill it n his head to make those extra passes and keep the ball moving. That's something that comes naturally to guys like Simmons or Russell. That's why combining them is so appealing to lakers fans. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
And who in this draft can be a #1 guy if not Simmons? |
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Roon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Everyone can improve their feel of the game. It's about learning how to play basketball better. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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To say that Randle doesn't have a feel for the game is inaccurate IMO. Tremendous feel for the game IMO. He does savvy stuff already at an early age. Like throwing the ball off players butt's when inbounding the ball under full court pressure lol
From reading your posts I think you mean more so processing information faster.
But you can't compare that between the two yet because Simmons has yet to play professionally. |
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iimarshon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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take Simmons and keep Randle..
Simmons can develop a shot and be a SF
any way Simmons grows into an extra 20-30 pounds and is a center?
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | To say that Randle doesn't have a feel for the game is inaccurate IMO. Tremendous feel for the game IMO. He does savvy stuff already at an early age. Like throwing the ball off players butt's when inbounding the ball under full court pressure lol
From reading your posts I think you mean more so processing information faster.
But you can't compare that between the two yet because Simmons has yet to play professionally. |
Yes and No. I agree that the game is fast for Randle right now and he isn't processing information as quickly as I think he should but I also think his feel for the team game is terrible. just little things like setting screens, boxing out, making those extra passes come naturally for some players and it doesn't for Randle. His first thought is how do I score over my man lol there's nothing wrong with that but I think ideally it should happen as a last resort |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
And who in this draft can be a #1 guy if not Simmons? |
Dunn looks the part
Ingram looks like he's a few years away but he has the potential. Just turned 18 in September and has a 7'4 wingspan for a SF that's elite! drafting him is basically like drafting a kid right out of highschool. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | loseyourname wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: |
The mentality between the two makes a huge difference. And Odom would be the #1 pick in this draft if you switched out Simmons for him. |
Totally this. Odom was an extremely talented guy. He went 4th overall in a pretty good draft in spite of having to sit out an entire year of college for NCAA violations. He put up 17/10/4 his rookie year, which is a lot better than we've gotten out of anybody. He'd have been a star if he cared enough and wasn't in and out of drug suspensions the first half of his career. He'd easily be #1 in this draft if he was available. |
When I compare Simmons to odom I'm not trying to insult him becAuse odom was my favorite player on the lakers for years. I'm just saying that I don't think he can be a number 1 guy without adding some go to moves. Right now Simmons is getting by on pure athleticism. When his team needs a basket he drives into the paint and hope for whistle.
I think the difference between Randle and Simmons is the mentality. Randle is a scorer with some Point forward skills, Simmons is a pure point forward who is opportunistic about getting buckets. So the question is would it be easier to develop Randles feel for the game/decision making and jumper or Simmons ability to create his own shot/ jumper? |
And who in this draft can be a #1 guy if not Simmons? |
Dunn looks the part
Ingram looks like he's a few years away but he has the potential. Just turned 18 in September and has a 7'4 wingspan for a SF that's elite! drafting him is basically like drafting a kid right out of highschool. |
Ingram is sooo far away and can't shoot 3s. If he doesn't develop a 3 point shot he's just another MKG.
Dunn is good. But Simmons is putting up better numbers and is 2 years younger. Dunn is also not looking good from three point range. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | 22 wrote: | To say that Randle doesn't have a feel for the game is inaccurate IMO. Tremendous feel for the game IMO. He does savvy stuff already at an early age. Like throwing the ball off players butt's when inbounding the ball under full court pressure lol
From reading your posts I think you mean more so processing information faster.
But you can't compare that between the two yet because Simmons has yet to play professionally. |
Yes and No. I agree that the game is fast for Randle right now and he isn't processing information as quickly as I think he should but I also think his feel for the team game is terrible. just little things like setting screens, boxing out, making those extra passes come naturally for some players and it doesn't for Randle. His first thought is how do I score over my man lol there's nothing wrong with that but I think ideally it should happen as a last resort |
Disagree, but that's not "feel for the game".
If he didn't have a feel for the game he would be lost and look awkward. You're talking more of his willingness to do the dirty work.
Feel for the game issues are what you see with guys like Upshaw, Character, and Darius Morris. Where mentally it just doesn't seem to quick and they're always a step or two behind.
I think he's just fine in that regard (for a rook) and is improving. Getting him out of B Scott's offense alone would go a long way (as it would for our other players as well) |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | take Simmons and keep Randle..
Simmons can develop a shot and be a SF
any way Simmons grows into an extra 20-30 pounds and is a center? |
Simmons is never going to a SF in today's NBA. He'd be a PF. One of the two would have to come off the bench and Randle would spend sometime as a small ball center. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | take Simmons and keep Randle..
Simmons can develop a shot and be a SF
any way Simmons grows into an extra 20-30 pounds and is a center? |
Simmons is never going to a SF in today's NBA. He'd be a PF. One of the two would have to come off the bench and Randle would spend sometime as a small ball center. |
Agreed - their skill sets and body types overlap quite a bit. They can likely play together for stretches, but eventually one of them would be shipped out for experienced talent that fits a need. It would be a great problem for the Lakers to have. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have only see a little wee bit of Simmons game - and I haven't watched an actual game. But my initial reaction was Shawn Marion with better guard skills. Sort of like LBJ - elite athleticism with guard skills, just not the same of course.
That's a 22/11/5 player and a perennial all-star in an uptempo offense. People are overlooking how hard it is to find a guy that will bring impact every night at an elite level. Yes he won't likely be a 25-30 ppg alpha of the team, but he'd blow away anyone on the current Lakers roster, easily, IMO.
Worrying about Randle's position is what led the Lakers to think twice to draft Okafor (5 with suspect team D) or Zinger (likely a starting 4 who moves to 5). You don't worry about your current talent at hand. You draft BPA.
Again I'm no expert and my analysis on this is probably premature and without enough study, but I think Simmons is a no brainer #1 pick. Haven't seen athleticism like that with guard skills - that combination since LBJ in 2003. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I have only see a little wee bit of Simmons game - and I haven't watched an actual game. But my initial reaction was Shawn Marion with better guard skills. Sort of like LBJ - elite athleticism with guard skills, just not the same of course.
That's a 22/11/5 player and a perennial all-star in an uptempo offense. People are overlooking how hard it is to find a guy that will bring impact every night at an elite level. Yes he won't likely be a 25-30 ppg alpha of the team, but he'd blow away anyone on the current Lakers roster, easily, IMO.
Worrying about Randle's position is what led the Lakers to think twice to draft Okafor (5 with suspect team D) or Zinger (likely a starting 4 who moves to 5). You don't worry about your current talent at hand. You draft BPA.
Again I'm no expert and my analysis on this is probably premature and without enough study, but I think Simmons is a no brainer #1 pick. Haven't seen athleticism like that with guard skills - that combination since LBJ in 2003. |
Says who WPL? That's a giant assumption.
They took DLO even though they had Clarkson. I think we do/did draft BPA.
Me personally I'd still take DLO #2 overall again |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Randle has an Alpha mentality, Simmons doesn't. He's the type of player that would be fine being a 3rd option. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | He's not a scoring threat at all |
He can become one. Ball-handling/size/athleticism combinations are great indicators for scoring ability. |
Yeah, I think he can be too. Right now he has all the physical traits but I'm concerned that he hasn't even started working on a pet move. I think he's taken 2 jump shots this season so he has no confidence in his jumper. I'm not saying that he won't be a good player because I think he could be a triple double threat right now in the NBA, I guess I'm thinking about fit. I think Ingram can be that 20 ppl scorer but it may take 3-4 years. He's a full year younger than Simmons! |
If we're talking fit, then Jaylen Brown.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | Everyone can improve their feel of the game. It's about learning how to play basketball better. |
Wesley Johnson and DeAndre Jordan lack feel. Still veterans.
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Runway8
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I have only see a little wee bit of Simmons game - and I haven't watched an actual game. But my initial reaction was Shawn Marion with better guard skills. Sort of like LBJ - elite athleticism with guard skills, just not the same of course.
That's a 22/11/5 player and a perennial all-star in an uptempo offense. People are overlooking how hard it is to find a guy that will bring impact every night at an elite level. Yes he won't likely be a 25-30 ppg alpha of the team, but he'd blow away anyone on the current Lakers roster, easily, IMO.
Worrying about Randle's position is what led the Lakers to think twice to draft Okafor (5 with suspect team D) or Zinger (likely a starting 4 who moves to 5). You don't worry about your current talent at hand. You draft BPA.
Again I'm no expert and my analysis on this is probably premature and without enough study, but I think Simmons is a no brainer #1 pick. Haven't seen athleticism like that with guard skills - that combination since LBJ in 2003. |
You're making an assumption based on the sentiments expressed here on LG. I've never heard any Laker official discuss how Okafor/Randle chemistry, but I did hear them discuss about how they believe Russell can play with Clarkson. Which means they did draft BPA regardless of their current roster. |
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