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jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30708
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 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | MIZ83 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | MIZ83 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | Draymond Green is good ... he's just GREAT because of the system. |
IMO Draymond is a huge reason why the system works so great and not the other way around. It's not easy to make the reads and passes that they do while still playing at an extremely fast pace. You have to get the right players to do it. |
Yes, to duplicate GS's success, all you have to do is go find the most prolific 3 point scorer of all time, pair him with the 2nd most prolific 3 point scorer in the league, then find a non-guard who can hit 3's, also, and drop dimes at a rate that only a handful of non-guards have ever done. Oh, and make sure that every starter is a solid to great defender. The system is great, and it allows the players' strengths to shine, but you are right, the players also are making the system look better than it is. |
So easy, lets go sign those guys in FA ... oh wait can't find them. Gotta wait for another Steph Curry.
Like I said, Draymond Green is a good player. Well rounded, he'll be good on any other team.
Put him on the Warriors and he becomes GREAT.
Or put it this way, if Draymond Green came to the Lakers would he improve our team by 20-30 wins? |
No he needs a #1 scorer next to him just like most #1 scorers need a guy like him. He's the best of all the guys who fill the role he does. Again, #1 scorers can help a bad team more than him but he can help average to good teams be great more so than a lot of #1 scorers. Obviously Durant, Kobe, Curry, Lebron and guys that good would do more than him for any team but they are 4 of the best of all time. |
That is a balanced position, and I think an accurate one. Every team needs one or two guys that can get a bucket even when guarded closely. Green has a knack for getting key scores, but not when the defense is loaded up to stop him. He also has a knack for getting key rebounds, and key stops. He is a winner, and worth a top 3 pick in most drafts.
The irony I see in much of this discussion is that Magic was the #2 scoring option until his 8th season in the league, playing along side the 6 time MVP and all time scoring leader. At the end of close games, Magic knew where the entry pass should go. Against a set defense, KAJ was still going to score. So, it is a little surprising to see how low a value many have placed on Green, when one of the all time Laker greats was elite because of passing, rebounding, and winning, rather than scoring as a #1 option. |
He's also leading the team with over 7 assists from the PF/C position. That would be an all-time high number by a big gap. |
1966-1967 Wilt Chamberlain: 24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG, 8.6 APG, .595 FG%. |
Good find. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30708
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| MIZ83 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | MIZ83 wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | You guys are right
Draymond Green = Magic Johnson |
No one said that he was Magic. A comparison was made to make a point. By the argument that some of you are using, Magic couldn't have been a franchise player because he was not the prototypical franchise type player. Most seasons, he scored less than 20 ppg. He was a miserable outside shooter for the first part of his career, although he did improve during the second half of his career. He was not the most dominant scorer on the team. Utility guy, right? |
Disagree. While he was a facilitator first, he still hovered around 20ppg despite having 2 other 20ppg guys behind him.
That would be the equivalent of Draymond averaging 5 more ppg. That's huge.
There were times during Magic's career where he had to prove he could score. What, like a 20 year old Magic scoring 42 points in the Finals wasn't enough? Do people really think Draymond could score 42?
It's a whole different level of glue guy/franchise player. When Kareem retired, he was still around 20ppg. |
Disagree with what? I did not say that Green was in the ballpark of Magic. I made the point that it is ironic that Lakers fans, of all people, cannot appreciate the greatness of a player that is all about winning and excels at things besides scoring that contribute to winning.
In spite of one iconic game, Magic was not an elite scorer. He was a good scorer, but not elite. |
You really shouldn't even have to make that caveat, it's pretty clear your intent. It's like the other thread regarding Dlo. There was a stat tying Lebron/Dlo together and automatically it becomes this absurd knee-jerk "So Dlo is now Lebron". Holy hell people. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53836
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I see this is getting off the rails a bit. Draymond isn't Lamar Odom and he isn't Magic Johnson. The question posed was the value of Draymond in relation to a Top 3 pick, which is most likely going to be Brandon Ingram or Dragon Bender if we happen to keep it. That's a no-brainer, and GSW would laugh and hang up the phone if it were offered. But everyone always is seduced by what's in the mystery box. |
Based on the arguments in here, some believe that w/o Green then Steph Curry wouldn't be the player that he is now.
I'm just saying Green is a good player but I wouldn't say the success of the Warriors rest and lay on his shoulders alone. |
I don't think anybody is arguing any of that. There's a number of reasons the Warriors are special. It doesn't have to just be one thing. But having Green allows them to do things with small lineups that other teams can't do which is a gigantic advantage. Nobody else has a 6'7 guy who can rim protect and defend every position, rebound and score, and act like a PG from the center position. This says nothing of the leadership qualities he has, or his swagger and confidence. I think downplaying or ignoring his contributions all over the court because he scores 15 PPG (on 11 attempts) instead of 20 is very short sighted. There's a very good reason why the Warriors would never even consider this hypothetical deal, and it doesn't only have to do with fit. |
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MIZ83
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 400
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | MIZ83 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | MIZ83 wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | You guys are right
Draymond Green = Magic Johnson |
No one said that he was Magic. A comparison was made to make a point. By the argument that some of you are using, Magic couldn't have been a franchise player because he was not the prototypical franchise type player. Most seasons, he scored less than 20 ppg. He was a miserable outside shooter for the first part of his career, although he did improve during the second half of his career. He was not the most dominant scorer on the team. Utility guy, right? |
Disagree. While he was a facilitator first, he still hovered around 20ppg despite having 2 other 20ppg guys behind him.
That would be the equivalent of Draymond averaging 5 more ppg. That's huge.
There were times during Magic's career where he had to prove he could score. What, like a 20 year old Magic scoring 42 points in the Finals wasn't enough? Do people really think Draymond could score 42?
It's a whole different level of glue guy/franchise player. When Kareem retired, he was still around 20ppg. |
Disagree with what? I did not say that Green was in the ballpark of Magic. I made the point that it is ironic that Lakers fans, of all people, cannot appreciate the greatness of a player that is all about winning and excels at things besides scoring that contribute to winning.
In spite of one iconic game, Magic was not an elite scorer. He was a good scorer, but not elite. |
You really shouldn't even have to make that caveat, it's pretty clear your intent. It's like the other thread regarding Dlo. There was a stat tying Lebron/Dlo together and automatically it becomes this absurd knee-jerk "So Dlo is now Lebron". Holy hell people. |
Thank you, sir! |
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