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The Gr8 Lakes
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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Oladipo is 2 times the player JC is. If that deal was possible with Nick Young as well, im doing it. Victor is an elite defender and a crafty player. I'd love that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j2sct4n Sold
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Megaton
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| The Gr8 Lakes wrote: | I'm sorry Oladipo is 2 times the player JC is. If that deal was possible with Nick Young as well, im doing it. Victor is an elite defender and a crafty player. I'd love that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j2sct4n Sold |
hasn't Clarkson been outplaying Oladipo since the 2nd half of last season and including this season? |
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dood23
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:12 am Post subject: |
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If you're trying to improve the team, you don't start with a trade of Clarkson for Dipo. That's one of our smallest holes.
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Megaton
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | The Gr8 Lakes wrote: | I'm sorry Oladipo is 2 times the player JC is. If that deal was possible with Nick Young as well, im doing it. Victor is an elite defender and a crafty player. I'd love that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j2sct4n Sold |
hasn't Clarkson been outplaying Oladipo since the 2nd half of last season and including this season? |
Yep. Especially scoring and efficiency wise.
That's like the most redundant trade ever.  |
The downside with Clarkson is that he just isn't a good defender at all. I think average is his ceiling in that respect, and that might be nice. It's why I see him in a 6th man/scoring role, ideally, on the next good Laker team. Or as trade bait. |
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rybee
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Wade on Whiteside: "We're all supposed to be in here for one common goal, and sometimes we don't know what he's thinking."
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ainsley
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| rybee wrote: | | Quote: | Wade on Whiteside: "We're all supposed to be in here for one common goal, and sometimes we don't know what he's thinking."
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 That's a pretty damning quote
I really hope we don't throw a max at him this summer, seems like too much of a headcase |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| ainsley wrote: | | rybee wrote: | | Quote: | Wade on Whiteside: "We're all supposed to be in here for one common goal, and sometimes we don't know what he's thinking."
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That's a pretty damning quote
I really hope we don't throw a max at him this summer, seems like too much of a headcase |
Here is how we need to look at this situation regarding Whiteside, at least in my opinion. If we are lucky enough to land Durant, we sign whichever center he wants to play with. Could be Horford, could be Whiteside, could be Biyombo, could be Noah...you just sign that guy. (Same with the coaching situation, by the way.) However, assuming you can't sign Durant, we need an influx of talent. Ideally, proven talent with upside, and I know some may say that Whiteside isn't quite proven. Whatever Whiteside's limitations are though, he has obvious talent. At $21MM per under the new cap, his contract is not going to be amazingly prohibitive anyway. If we don't get Durant, he's the type of player we have to take a chance on. If we could get DeRozan and Whiteside, for example, our talent and athleticism go up exponentially. Think about it: Kobe is playing most of the minutes at the 2, and Hibbert is playing most of the minutes at the 5. There will be an amnesty provision in the next CBA anyway. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: |
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We're not getting Durant.
But now back to Whiteside...
If Upshaw keeps on the straight and narrow and doing a good job remaining clean and showing discipline then I would rather roll the dice on him eventually, and bring him in as our backup 5 next year behind Tarik Black.
Because why not at this point? Instead of throwing max money at Whiteside who seems like his problems may not be worth his blocks. At least Whiteside seems to understand where he is, and where he stands and has respect for the organization. Which is why I really hope he stays on the good path. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | We're not getting Durant.
But now back to Whiteside...
If Upshaw keeps on the straight and narrow and doing a good job remaining clean and showing discipline then I would rather roll the dice on him eventually, and bring him in as our backup 5 next year behind Tarik Black.
Because why not at this point? Instead of throwing max money at Whiteside who seems like his problems may not be worth his blocks. At least Whiteside seems to understand where he is, and where he stands and has respect for the organization. Which is why I really hope he stays on the good path. |
We cannot just keep punting cap space. It's not going to happen. We need to be in the business of acquiring assets/talent. Upshaw is so far off the radar at this point, at least as a meaningful player. If he pans out eventually, wonderful. We are going to try to spend money this offseason, and if we don't, it will be because nobody of consequence wanted to come play for us, and that would mean a bunch of placeholder contracts again. I will concede that I don't know about Whiteside's potential issues as well as others may. But I will say that I'm not in favor of just going with a strict youth movement with Black/Upshaw. We need to pursue talent upgrades on this roster. And a 26-year-old with Whiteside's kind of upside is going to warrant a serious, serious look. His $21MM max won't be that far off, in terms of cap value, to what Hibbert's contract for this year looks like. Big men are always at a premium and you're going to see big-time money thrown at mediocre bigs this summer. Especially if we strike out on Durant (the likely outcome), I would rather spend $7-8MM more on Whiteside's upside than a guy like Biyombo. But that's just me. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | MJST wrote: | We're not getting Durant.
But now back to Whiteside...
If Upshaw keeps on the straight and narrow and doing a good job remaining clean and showing discipline then I would rather roll the dice on him eventually, and bring him in as our backup 5 next year behind Tarik Black.
Because why not at this point? Instead of throwing max money at Whiteside who seems like his problems may not be worth his blocks. At least Whiteside seems to understand where he is, and where he stands and has respect for the organization. Which is why I really hope he stays on the good path. |
We cannot just keep punting cap space. It's not going to happen. We need to be in the business of acquiring assets/talent. Upshaw is so far off the radar at this point, at least as a meaningful player. If he pans out eventually, wonderful. We are going to try to spend money this offseason, and if we don't, it will be because nobody of consequence wanted to come play for us, and that would mean a bunch of placeholder contracts again. I will concede that I don't know about Whiteside's potential issues as well as others may. But I will say that I'm not in favor of just going with a strict youth movement with Black/Upshaw. We need to pursue talent upgrades on this roster. And a 26-year-old with Whiteside's kind of upside is going to warrant a serious, serious look. His $21MM max won't be that far off, in terms of cap value, to what Hibbert's contract for this year looks like. Big men are always at a premium and you're going to see big-time money thrown at mediocre bigs this summer. Especially if we strike out on Durant (the likely outcome), I would rather spend $7-8MM more on Whiteside's upside than a guy like Biyombo. But that's just me. |
The only difference is 4 years at 21m is a considerable investment. To be honest, I'm sure the Lakers will be interested in Whiteside, but maybe hesitant to invest long term on him.
Plus, I don't see him as a guy that KD tells the Lakers to get in order for him to come to LA for example.
I could easily see the Lakers spending a part of the "punt space" (i.e. 15-18m) on a 1 year center, and spending a little on a younger and bouncier big man.
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HumanVictoryCigar
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: |
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like Wade never did anything when he was younger... pfft...
Sounds like Byron is the PERFECT coach to recruit Whiteside. Byron will sidle up to Whiteside and say, "smashmouth" and then poke him in the ribs, "man up" and Whiteside will be like... I'M HOME! |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not an oladipo fan at all really |
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Among the many 'meh' young SGs around the league (including Clarkson) he's one of the more palatable because he can distribute a bit and he defends, but he's going to be expensive to trade for and he's about to be overpaid on the promise that he'll eventually learn how to shoot.
I'd take him for Clarkson, though. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not an oladipo fan at all really |
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Among the many 'meh' young SGs around the league (including Clarkson) he's one of the more palatable because he can distribute a bit and he defends, but he's going to be expensive to trade for and he's about to be overpaid on the promise that he'll eventually learn how to shoot.
I'd take him for Clarkson, though. |
Yeah. On offense, it's a wash b/w the two but on defense, it's unquestionably Oladipo.
But agree that he'd be expensive to obtain. Would be something like JC/other young asset (maybe 2016 2nd rounder too) AND the Lakers eating a long-term contract. And I'm sure there are better deals out there.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | MJST wrote: | We're not getting Durant.
But now back to Whiteside...
If Upshaw keeps on the straight and narrow and doing a good job remaining clean and showing discipline then I would rather roll the dice on him eventually, and bring him in as our backup 5 next year behind Tarik Black.
Because why not at this point? Instead of throwing max money at Whiteside who seems like his problems may not be worth his blocks. At least Whiteside seems to understand where he is, and where he stands and has respect for the organization. Which is why I really hope he stays on the good path. |
We cannot just keep punting cap space. It's not going to happen. We need to be in the business of acquiring assets/talent. Upshaw is so far off the radar at this point, at least as a meaningful player. If he pans out eventually, wonderful. We are going to try to spend money this offseason, and if we don't, it will be because nobody of consequence wanted to come play for us, and that would mean a bunch of placeholder contracts again. I will concede that I don't know about Whiteside's potential issues as well as others may. But I will say that I'm not in favor of just going with a strict youth movement with Black/Upshaw. We need to pursue talent upgrades on this roster. And a 26-year-old with Whiteside's kind of upside is going to warrant a serious, serious look. His $21MM max won't be that far off, in terms of cap value, to what Hibbert's contract for this year looks like. Big men are always at a premium and you're going to see big-time money thrown at mediocre bigs this summer. Especially if we strike out on Durant (the likely outcome), I would rather spend $7-8MM more on Whiteside's upside than a guy like Biyombo. But that's just me. |
The only difference is 4 years at 21m is a considerable investment. To be honest, I'm sure the Lakers will be interested in Whiteside, but maybe hesitant to invest long term on him.
Plus, I don't see him as a guy that KD tells the Lakers to get in order for him to come to LA for example.
I could easily see the Lakers spending a part of the "punt space" (i.e. 15-18m) on a 1 year center, and spending a little on a younger and bouncier big man. |
I am not seeing the same "Whiteside must be signed at all costs" necessity as some others. He had some serious negatives with his upside. Not sure they can all be overlooked. I agree with the comment that if Durant was truly thinking of building his own Big 3 in LA that Whiteside is part of that vision.
I also think their are other viable options. Not as flashy or sexy but an upgrade. Mozgov would be a solid player to consider IMO.
Also think risks and suitable contracts could be worked out with a couple of centers. Possibly even a RFA like Drummond, Zeller with a Noah, Jefferson or even Hibbert type for depth. Much can happen with the cap if not dividing it between three AllStars.
This is not even taking draft or trades into account. Center position (and SF!) needs to improved. Just think there are more options then most seem to be considering as the only way. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, Ian Begley (ESPN NY) says that Knicks have been informed that their chances of landing KD would be influenced by hiring Scott Brooks (non-Triangle coach).
Some have postulated that Brooks may be a Lakers coaching candidate. Would you hire him, just for the chance that it would get KD? OR would it be conditional on KD saying he would come to the Lakers IF we did it...i.e. simultaneously hiring Brooks/signing KD?
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DoubleClutch
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Ian Begley (ESPN NY) says that Knicks have been informed that their chances of landing KD would be influenced by hiring Scott Brooks (non-Triangle coach).
Some have postulated that Brooks may be a Lakers coaching candidate. Would you hire him, just for the chance that it would get KD? OR would it be conditional on KD saying he would come to the Lakers IF we did it...i.e. simultaneously hiring Brooks/signing KD? |
Not for me. Brooks didn't look great in OKC, not sure he'd do better here. I'd rather hire Luke or even Ollie and try to sell Durant on their talents.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Ian Begley (ESPN NY) says that Knicks have been informed that their chances of landing KD would be influenced by hiring Scott Brooks (non-Triangle coach).
Some have postulated that Brooks may be a Lakers coaching candidate. Would you hire him, just for the chance that it would get KD? OR would it be conditional on KD saying he would come to the Lakers IF we did it...i.e. simultaneously hiring Brooks/signing KD? |
Depends on what the Lakers really think of Brooks as a HC. Hiring "just" to increase the odds of Durant signing seems a bit desperate and not the message I would want to send to the League.
I think Brooks is good HC. He has his strengths and weaknesses as most coaches do. But is he really the future rebuilder of the Lakers whether Durant signs or not? Tough call.
Kind of goes to the point of another thread. How much of this type of back room deals can realistically be done. Lakers need to have some fairly strong assurances by multiple players of a strong interest in a free agent super team or it might be another year of begging and miscues waiting for elite free agents to accept any Laker offers. Being used as bargaining tools by agents and watching some solid players sign elsewhere is getting tiresome. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| DoubleClutch wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Ian Begley (ESPN NY) says that Knicks have been informed that their chances of landing KD would be influenced by hiring Scott Brooks (non-Triangle coach).
Some have postulated that Brooks may be a Lakers coaching candidate. Would you hire him, just for the chance that it would get KD? OR would it be conditional on KD saying he would come to the Lakers IF we did it...i.e. simultaneously hiring Brooks/signing KD? |
Not for me. Brooks didn't look great in OKC, not sure he'd do better here. I'd rather hire Luke or even Ollie and try to sell Durant on their talents. |
I understand the criticisms against Brooks, and I agree with them.
But my question is, if hiring Brooks meant you'd get Durant (100% guarantee), the Lakers would have to do that, no?
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Dave20
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | The Gr8 Lakes wrote: | I'm sorry Oladipo is 2 times the player JC is. If that deal was possible with Nick Young as well, im doing it. Victor is an elite defender and a crafty player. I'd love that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j2sct4n Sold |
hasn't Clarkson been outplaying Oladipo since the 2nd half of last season and including this season? |
Yep. Especially scoring and efficiency wise.
That's like the most redundant trade ever. :lol: |
It's mind boggling how the same few posters want to trade the best player on the team. Clarkson isn't going anywhere. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Ian Begley (ESPN NY) says that Knicks have been informed that their chances of landing KD would be influenced by hiring Scott Brooks (non-Triangle coach).
Some have postulated that Brooks may be a Lakers coaching candidate. Would you hire him, just for the chance that it would get KD? OR would it be conditional on KD saying he would come to the Lakers IF we did it...i.e. simultaneously hiring Brooks/signing KD? |
Depends on what the Lakers really think of Brooks as a HC. Hiring "just" to increase the odds of Durant signing seems a bit desperate and not the message I would want to send to the League.
I think Brooks is good HC. He has his strengths and weaknesses as most coaches do. But is he really the future rebuilder of the Lakers whether Durant signs or not? Tough call.
Kind of goes to the point of another thread. How much of this type of back room deals can realistically be done. Lakers need to have some fairly strong assurances by multiple players of a strong interest in a free agent super team or it might be another year of begging and miscues waiting for elite free agents to accept any Laker offers. Being used as bargaining tools by agents and watching some solid players sign elsewhere is getting tiresome. |
Right, but if KD says, "I'm willing to sign right now if you hire Brooks," I don't think the Lakers have a choice.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | The Gr8 Lakes wrote: | I'm sorry Oladipo is 2 times the player JC is. If that deal was possible with Nick Young as well, im doing it. Victor is an elite defender and a crafty player. I'd love that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j2sct4n Sold |
hasn't Clarkson been outplaying Oladipo since the 2nd half of last season and including this season? |
Yep. Especially scoring and efficiency wise.
That's like the most redundant trade ever. |
It's mind boggling how the same few posters want to trade the best player on the team. Clarkson isn't going anywhere. |
Is being the best player on an 11-43 team something that makes a player untradeable?
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Dave20
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Hiring Brooks doesn't guarantee getting Durant. Brooks offense is mostly iso ball. You hire the best coach to get the best out of the young core which is Thibs or Walton. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Hiring Brooks doesn't guarantee getting Durant. Brooks offense is mostly iso ball. You hire the best coach to get the best out of the young core which is Thibs or Walton. |
I wouldn't either. But if Durant said he'd sign the contract right now if you hired Brooks, I'd have to do it.
(then fire Brooks right after). 
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