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Wino
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 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | Quite possibly the greatest offensive season from a player ever.
What's more surprising than the unanimous decision is Russell Westbrook actually getting much more votes than Durant, even CP3. That's an absolute joke. |
Yeah but that is what I want to see because the more disgruntled he is about being passed over, the more likely we get him here.
The thing is, if Durant goes to SA, it will likely mean less recognition for him. He will have to share the spotlight with Kawhi and Aldridge. I think his overall stock goes down, but his odds of winning rings goes up.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLuke wrote: | | Fred Hickman didn't get to vote? |
Apparently, there were no contrarian dheads like Hickman voting. Shoulda been Shaq, but on the other hand, I'm not mad for Steph. Unreal player. I'm glad to see no one hickman the results because he doesn't want an (obviously)* unanimous result.
*obvious to me
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | The thing is, if Durant goes to SA, it will likely mean less recognition for him. He will have to share the spotlight with Kawhi and Aldridge. I think his overall stock goes down, but his odds of winning rings goes up. |
I don't know about that. Anyway you slice it, Durant is a far bigger name than either Aldridge or Kawhi. It's not like he's Bosh teaming up with Lebron and Wade. It's more like he'd be Lebron in that scenario. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | The thing is, if Durant goes to SA, it will likely mean less recognition for him. He will have to share the spotlight with Kawhi and Aldridge. I think his overall stock goes down, but his odds of winning rings goes up. |
I don't know about that. Anyway you slice it, Durant is a far bigger name than either Aldridge or Kawhi. It's not like he's Bosh teaming up with Lebron and Wade. It's more like he'd be Lebron in that scenario. |
Nobody gets recognition in San Antonio anyway and Durant has as much charisma as Tim Duncan; which is to say none. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | The thing is, if Durant goes to SA, it will likely mean less recognition for him. He will have to share the spotlight with Kawhi and Aldridge. I think his overall stock goes down, but his odds of winning rings goes up. |
I don't know about that. Anyway you slice it, Durant is a far bigger name than either Aldridge or Kawhi. It's not like he's Bosh teaming up with Lebron and Wade. It's more like he'd be Lebron in that scenario. |
Nobody gets recognition in San Antonio anyway and Durant has as much charisma as Tim Duncan; which is to say none. |
He might not have a persona per se but he's got light years more charisma than Duncan in interviews. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| I can hear Bill Russell's cackles and MJ's grunts right now. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Steph Curry Officially The League's First Ever Unanimous MVP |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | the association wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Per Woj. Well deserved. |
An appropriate time to announce, too ...
Kudos to Curry. Not a big fan, but he deserved it. 2x MVP ... |
I want to study people in a lab who aren't fans of Steph Curry. It's like not liking pizza. |
Because he's cocky but pretends to be humble. |
Like Derek Fisher? |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Mark Jackson said he didn't think Curry would make it in the NBA, thought he was to small. |
Let's be real here, no one thought Curry was going to be "best player in the league" good. Back 2 back MVPs with a chip to boot? He's a baby face killer. |
I thought he was going to be basically like Mike Bibby. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Steph Curry Officially The League's First Ever Unanimous MVP |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | the association wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Per Woj. Well deserved. |
An appropriate time to announce, too ...
Kudos to Curry. Not a big fan, but he deserved it. 2x MVP ... |
I want to study people in a lab who aren't fans of Steph Curry. It's like not liking pizza. |
Because he's cocky but pretends to be humble. |
Like Derek Fisher? |
Fisher is humble, it's just that there are circumstances that....hey has anyone seen my wife?
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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After thinking about it and watching some highlights, I tend to agree with those who say he's a bit overrated. You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
And I think something is wrong with me because I agree with Colin Cowturd. He said that that perhaps the reason why he won was because of media relatability and not because he truly is the most valuable player. You take Curry out and they're still a top 2 seed. We saw what happened with that already. What happens when you take Kawhi or Lebron of their teams?
Most Valuable Player should be renamed to Most Popular Player, MPP.
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he?
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | The thing is, if Durant goes to SA, it will likely mean less recognition for him. He will have to share the spotlight with Kawhi and Aldridge. I think his overall stock goes down, but his odds of winning rings goes up. |
I don't know about that. Anyway you slice it, Durant is a far bigger name than either Aldridge or Kawhi. It's not like he's Bosh teaming up with Lebron and Wade. It's more like he'd be Lebron in that scenario. |
Nobody gets recognition in San Antonio anyway and Durant has as much charisma as Tim Duncan; which is to say none. |
Charisma is in the eye of the beholder, of course. You can't dispute that Durant has a huge Q rating (which measures how well known and liked a celebrity is), and he is second in the league in endorsements.
Hard to imagine moving from Oklahoma City to San Antonio would change any of that, since it's not like OKC is some media mecca.
And I don't see how sharing the spotlight with Aldridge or Kawhi would be any different than sharing the spotlight with Westbrook, who is a bigger public figure than either of them.
So I don't see any basis for your reasoning here. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he? |
Yeah, if you took away Curry's three-point shooting he'd still be a star. But, as you said, why would you take away a key part of anyone's game? It's like saying would Kobe still be a star if he was not allowed to shoot inside the 3-point circle or would Iverson have been a star if he was not allowed to dribble the ball. |
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he? |
Yeah, if you took away Curry's three-point shooting he'd still be a star. But, as you said, why would you take away a key part of anyone's game? It's like saying would Kobe still be a star if he was not allowed to shoot inside the 3-point circle or would Iverson have been a star if he was not allowed to dribble the ball. |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do?
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RG73
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do? |
They're still a playoff team, but they don't win the championship. How's that? You are going to be hard pressed finding an MVP who plays on a team that would literally be in the lottery without that player.
No Lebron? Cleveland still makes the playoffs. No Durant? Westbrook powers the Thunder in. No Westbrook? Durant does it. No Leonard? Spurs still get in.
This is always part of the calculation, explicitly or not--how many wins above average do you get from that player? In Steph's case, it's probably in the 20s. Put him on this Lakers team last season and they probably sniff 40 wins. Someone probably has the actual data to prove this.
I don't even know why anyone is bothering to debate this anymore. The man is better at basketball than everyone else, the end. If you have some weird aesthetic reasons to not like the 3 point play, I'm sure you can find some great NBA games from the 70s to watch. If you have some aesthetic reason to prefer watching lumbering giants waste the shot clock taking high degree of difficulty post up shots, great. The 90s got your back. But to knock the man because he has mastered the game under the current rules is just silly.
And the whole meme of Steph/Warriors are just a 3 pint shooting team is dumb, dumb, dumb. If that was it, and it was so easy, then everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do? |
They're still a playoff team, but they don't win the championship. How's that? You are going to be hard pressed finding an MVP who plays on a team that would literally be in the lottery without that player.
No Lebron? Cleveland still makes the playoffs. No Durant? Westbrook powers the Thunder in. No Westbrook? Durant does it. No Leonard? Spurs still get in.
This is always part of the calculation, explicitly or not--how many wins above average do you get from that player? In Steph's case, it's probably in the 20s. Put him on this Lakers team last season and they probably sniff 40 wins. Someone probably has the actual data to prove this.
I don't even know why anyone is bothering to debate this anymore. The man is better at basketball than everyone else, the end. If you have some weird aesthetic reasons to not like the 3 point play, I'm sure you can find some great NBA games from the 70s to watch. If you have some aesthetic reason to prefer watching lumbering giants waste the shot clock taking high degree of difficulty post up shots, great. The 90s got your back. But to knock the man because he has mastered the game under the current rules is just silly.
And the whole meme of Steph/Warriors are just a 3 pint shooting team is dumb, dumb, dumb. If that was it, and it was so easy, then everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? |
it's because of the bolded that riles people up, especially those who are familiar with multiple eras. And by those, i also include several if not the majority of the old school veterans.
Curry is not the best basketball player the end. He's the best long distance shooter right now, and while that may be obvious, there are a few in the league who can do the same. You don't see it because of the other point you dismiss, which is the warriors have a team full of reliable 3 point shooters. On top of it, their offensive strategy is definitely the best in the league. Their placement of players, passing, etc. similar to the old triangle when executed well, and the spurs.
If Curry were on another team, or another era, or different rules, etc. his stock would go down significantly. He definitely is not the best player if he gets crowded or defended physically. So when you compare him to guys like Kobe and MJ, that's where all these arguments explode. MJ and Kobe could deal with phyiscal and adverse situations. Curry needs to be in a situation where he is wide open to either get the shot off, or enough space to use his herky moves. But he wouldn't be able to do that in another situation. He has only shown this kind of success in very advantageous situations for his style.
The difference is with others...like kobe and mj, they played spectacularly when their teams were the worst. Curry has only shown this goat level play when his team was the best. That's the difference. He can't do it without the best team, and that's why he shouldn't be considered the best ever, or whatever hyperbole is being used about him now. He's not a Shaq or anything close. Shaq turned teams into championship contenders just by being there, wherever he went, in whatever configuration or era the teams were in.
and the comment of if it was so easy everyone would do it is more dumb dumb dumb than others. That's a fan comment, not taking into account all the business of basketball. First you need the right group of players, then you need the right coach, then the right strategy, the right support, etc. That's not easy. It's hard enough getting the right 1 or 2 players, let alone a bunch of them. And once you gain that kind of momentum it's hard to lose. Remember west had to fight to keep klay and curry together because of his knowledge. this stuff is not as simple as you make it seem.
and this is not a knock on curry. saying this doesn't make him any worse or whatever. if anything it's a knock on the extreme hype around him and people thinking he's some kind of alien that is matrix-hacking the game of basketball. he's a very good player with huge hype and has perfected long range shooting. he's not the best at other aspects of the game. now, dont go overboard and take that as he sucks at other things. but he's not the best. he's the best at basically one thing. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Steph Curry Officially The League's First Ever Unanimous MVP |
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| ocho wrote: | | the association wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Per Woj. Well deserved. |
An appropriate time to announce, too ...
Kudos to Curry. Not a big fan, but he deserved it. 2x MVP ... |
I want to study people in a lab who aren't fans of Steph Curry. It's like not liking pizza. |
Not really. Golden State is getting extra love in here because our team is irrelevant and people here hate the Clippers. If the Warriors started knocking the Lakers out of the playoffs and the Clippers were in the lottery then I'm sure people would start getting annoyed with them and start looking for reasons to hate.
Last edited by Steve007 on Thu May 12, 2016 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do? |
They're still a playoff team, but they don't win the championship. How's that? You are going to be hard pressed finding an MVP who plays on a team that would literally be in the lottery without that player.
No Lebron? Cleveland still makes the playoffs. No Durant? Westbrook powers the Thunder in. No Westbrook? Durant does it. No Leonard? Spurs still get in.
This is always part of the calculation, explicitly or not--how many wins above average do you get from that player? In Steph's case, it's probably in the 20s. Put him on this Lakers team last season and they probably sniff 40 wins. Someone probably has the actual data to prove this.
I don't even know why anyone is bothering to debate this anymore. The man is better at basketball than everyone else, the end. If you have some weird aesthetic reasons to not like the 3 point play, I'm sure you can find some great NBA games from the 70s to watch. If you have some aesthetic reason to prefer watching lumbering giants waste the shot clock taking high degree of difficulty post up shots, great. The 90s got your back. But to knock the man because he has mastered the game under the current rules is just silly.
And the whole meme of Steph/Warriors are just a 3 pint shooting team is dumb, dumb, dumb. If that was it, and it was so easy, then everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? |
He chucks up 3 point shots and makes them at a ridiculous rate. It's amazing, I'll admit but, that type of play won't age with him well. Just like Lebron. You can only run people over at will for so long until you have to adapt. I don't know. I guess I'm more partial to guys who can do it all AND guard multiple positions like Kawhi or even Durant. Just like a 5 tool player in baseball. Ok, great you can hit 50 home runs but can you field? Lay down a bunt if needed? Steal? etc. I'm not trying to offend anyone or be a contrarian. I don't dislike Curry. I just don't salivate over his game like most of yous do. This is coming from someone who thought Pippen was more valuable to the Bulls than Jordan.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he? |
You look at his dribble moves (which are actually effective in separating himself from defenders and not just for show), he looks like a fish. He freaks mofos like MJ did. Steph does it with a bizarre amount of ease at times. He threw in about 3 daggers on queue to put POR out. That's superstar stuff, no denying.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do? |
They're still a playoff team, but they don't win the championship. How's that? You are going to be hard pressed finding an MVP who plays on a team that would literally be in the lottery without that player.
No Lebron? Cleveland still makes the playoffs. No Durant? Westbrook powers the Thunder in. No Westbrook? Durant does it. No Leonard? Spurs still get in.
This is always part of the calculation, explicitly or not--how many wins above average do you get from that player? In Steph's case, it's probably in the 20s. Put him on this Lakers team last season and they probably sniff 40 wins. Someone probably has the actual data to prove this.
I don't even know why anyone is bothering to debate this anymore. The man is better at basketball than everyone else, the end. If you have some weird aesthetic reasons to not like the 3 point play, I'm sure you can find some great NBA games from the 70s to watch. If you have some aesthetic reason to prefer watching lumbering giants waste the shot clock taking high degree of difficulty post up shots, great. The 90s got your back. But to knock the man because he has mastered the game under the current rules is just silly.
And the whole meme of Steph/Warriors are just a 3 pint shooting team is dumb, dumb, dumb. If that was it, and it was so easy, then everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? |
He chucks up 3 point shots and makes them at a ridiculous rate. It's amazing, I'll admit but, that type of play won't age with him well. Just like Lebron. You can only run people over at will for so long until you have to adapt. I don't know. I guess I'm more partial to guys who can do it all AND guard multiple positions like Kawhi or even Durant. Just like a 5 tool player in baseball. Ok, great you can hit 50 home runs but can you field? Lay down a bunt if needed? Steal? etc. I'm not trying to offend anyone or be a contrarian. I don't dislike Curry. I just don't salivate over his game like most of yous do. This is coming from someone who thought Pippen was more valuable to the Bulls than Jordan. |
The thing is though about that analogy, is that in baseball, none of those aspects from an individual player even comes close to the impact that 50 homeruns has. Steals and bunts (which are often not worth the out) will never come close to the run creating impact of homeruns, and an individual fielder will never prevent enough runs to come close to the value of 50 homeruns. It may not require as much "guile" as those other skills, but it does have the most impact (by far) on actual wins. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe had a higher scoring game this year than the first unanimous mvp. |
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lakersken80
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Wino
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he? |
Totally agree Ocho. His passing almost reminds me of Magic, not so much in the deceptive quality of the pass but the quickness and pinpoint accuracy. One second he looks to be going for a shot and the next tenth of a second and the he has passed it to a man in perfect position.
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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classic ...... I would love be to see what Curry would put up with fifty shots. Hell, kinda hard to hit 50 points when you're resting half of the three td and the entire 4th
Last edited by doughboy90650 on Sun May 15, 2016 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | You take away the 3 point shot and what do you have? I think it's just the product of the hype train.
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I mean this sincerely: Have you seen him play much?
He's an elite finisher at the rim. He's an elite playmaker. He leads the league in steals. He's 3rd in the league in Assists Per 48min. He has 50/45/90 shooting splits. He's 2nd in the league in rebounds at his position. Exactly what else would you like him to do?
His 3 point shooting is incredible, but it's hardly the only thing that makes him a great player. And since when do we discredit people by taking away their best quality? Is Shaq overrated because take away shots near the rim and what is he? |
Yeah, if you took away Curry's three-point shooting he'd still be a star. But, as you said, why would you take away a key part of anyone's game? It's like saying would Kobe still be a star if he was not allowed to shoot inside the 3-point circle or would Iverson have been a star if he was not allowed to dribble the ball. |
Ok. Fair enough. But, I still have a different definition of an MVP than most here. I ask myself, "take away that player, how does the team do? |
Some people do use that definition. But not too many, because it's so completely subjective. I mean, it's anyone's guess how GS would do over a whole season without Curry. So anyone could use that definition to justify any opinion, even completely contradictory ones -- that's the nature of woulda coulda should scenarios. You can claim any outcome you want and no one can prove whether you're right or wrong. |
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