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LakerDynasty6.0
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Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4660
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Oh my! The chowderheads looking to bring back the days of the dominant center a la Bill Russell. Haven't had a big man with ball$ since forever!
Great work chumps! Give up your entire stash of 2016 picks for Okafor and oh, BTW, you can also have Superwuss Dwight while you're at it!!
See ya!
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....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26385
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Problem is that post ups don't really lead to a high number of kick out threes.
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes. |
Memphis was in no danger of ever winning a championship. And we can say that the past five and this years champions will not feature post play.
The Thunder have been using 3 big line ups (Durant/Ibaka/Adams or Durant/Kanter/Adams, etc.). They aren't really a low post team. They score a lot of points. Their bigs are athletic, so it isn't as if they could not be post up players--it simply is not an efficient play. You can wish for a return of inefficient basketball all you want, but it won't happen anytime soon.
Only one player this season used more than 50% of his possessions on post up--Pekovic. He's also terrible in the post. He will give you 67 points for every 100 possessions in the post. Gasol and Randolph use 35+% of their possession on post up. They are both sub 0.9 PPP post up players. The only guy who uses a lot of post ups and gets 1.00 PPP is Aldridge. Only 6 teams this season used more than 9% of their possessions on post ups. Of those, half didn't make the playoffs, and none are currently still in the playoffs. So I don't know what world you are living in--these teams would post up if it worked. It doesn't--which is why Philly wants to ditch Okafor to run a Simmons/Noel front court. If Boston becomes a low post team, they are not going to get any further in the playoffs (especially with Okafor giving up more than he gets on the other side...). |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Yup. The key is getting a post up center that can play defense and rebound so he's not completely useless on the floor when he isn't getting post touches. Kristaps has big potential due to this very reason.
If Okafor develops defensively he will be a nightmare.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Simmons was speculating that it was Kevin Love, but that makes no sense at all.
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Problem is that post ups don't really lead to a high number of kick out threes. |
Yup. The Sixers' top three 3pt shooters, Covington, Thompson, and Canaan, each shot over 5% WORSE from 3 when Okafor was on the floor with them. |
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67703
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
But they are a one and done.
My reason for saying Boston is rebuilding faster is because we haven't made the playoffs in 3 years. We started our skid 2013-14 same year as Boston. They've made the playoffs last two years.
I like what I'm seeing in rebuilding. We have a good young nucleus, decent veterans, cap space, no longer Kobe reliant and the lure of Los Angeles.
What I see from the outside looking in is, Jim may be getting out of Mitch's way, a team heading in the right direction. I believe we'll be contending in 3 4 years, maybe less. Meantime we'll make the playoffs and be exciting. |
You are comparing apples and oranges. A fair comparison would be if Boston had extended Pierce in 2013 to a cap crippling contract, got a coach to appease Pierce, and then spent the last season indulging Pierce while he shot 3-20 or whatever. The timelines are similar, but the circumstances are totally different.
We drafted better than them in 2014 (I'll take Randle over Smart). In 2015 we get DLO and Nance, compared to Rozier and Hunter. And now we're getting the #2 again vs. their #3. Given that our FO was trying to do two polar opposite things at once (Kobe-centrism vs rebuild), I would say that making it past the Kobe era with 3 lottery picks and lots of cap space is a victory. |
Can't argue with reality. Not making the playoffs and them making it clouded my vision of rebuilding. We're in pretty good shape.
| Quote: | | I like what I'm seeing in rebuilding. We have a good young nucleus, decent veterans, cap space, no longer Kobe reliant and the lure of Los Angeles. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Problem is that post ups don't really lead to a high number of kick out threes. |
Yup. The Sixers' top three 3pt shooters, Covington, Thompson, and Canaan, each shot over 5% WORSE from 3 when Okafor was on the floor with them. |
Wow... now that is a stat that, not only I didn't know, I wouldn't have guessed. Thanks. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | What really irks me is the way the Celtics FO is showing better management and rebuilding skills than we are. |
I got used to the idea that "genius" is important while seeing Auerbach and Buss craft so many champions. If we get out-thought by Danny Ainge, it's not from his having any sense of genius; remember, we have idiots steering the ship now. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30698
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Problem is that post ups don't really lead to a high number of kick out threes. |
Yup. The Sixers' top three 3pt shooters, Covington, Thompson, and Canaan, each shot over 5% WORSE from 3 when Okafor was on the floor with them. |
Wow... now that is a stat that, not only I didn't know, I wouldn't have guessed. Thanks. |
Honestly, it kind of corroborates what I saw when we pounded the ball into Bynum. ((DELETED - C'MON MAN. YOU KNOW BETTER - JMK)) There's little rhythm without ball movemen.
*edit* Lol, I swear I edited out the base comments. Not sure what happened. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Okafor will be a 20/10 guy for them. He will never be a "great" defender. But acting like he's a bum or a bust is so far from the truth it makes people sound bitter.
Jahlil in his first NBA year averaged 17/7 with 1.2 blocks per game that's pretty solid. |
Look at his efficiency--most of his plays are post ups and isos. He's about league average at posting up and a little better than average at iso.
Russell is actually much better in the post and in isolation (he actually scores as well as Curry on isos and as good as Towns in the post).
But yes, Okafor is slightly better than average at taking difficult shots, and he is exceptional at making most of his plays really difficult. If you wish to base on offense around a guy taking lots of unnecessarily difficult shots, he's your guy. |
Really sad people think dominant post up centers have no place in "this eras NBA" when the fact of the matter is last year if Memphis actually had three point shooters on their team they could have beaten Golden State last year. It wasn't until Kerr exploited that Tony Allen couldn't shoot with a darn that Golden State was able to take over the series. If Allen was a 37-40% three point shooter the entire series changes.
3 point shooting is a must in today's NBA. But if you build a team correctly such as with defense and 3 point shooting around a post up center it would work just fine. Because the kick outs and such will still lead to wide open threes.
Brad Stevens is a VERY good coach, he'd know how to utilize Okafor as well as get his team wide open threes.
Problem is you don't see it implemented much, there's not many dominant post up bigs in the league, and those bigs that ARE dominant are on crap teams.
Okafor on Boston whom is a playoff team would be fantastic for them, especially with a coach like Stevens who could and would find a way to maximize what Okafor does while not compromising what everyone else does well. |
Problem is that post ups don't really lead to a high number of kick out threes. |
Yup. The Sixers' top three 3pt shooters, Covington, Thompson, and Canaan, each shot over 5% WORSE from 3 when Okafor was on the floor with them. |
Where did this stat come from? |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Stats.nba.com. You can do on off court comparisons by player, either on the same team or different teams. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26385
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Hopefullythe "myth" of "size and big centers have no place in today's NBA" has been put to bed just by what Adams and Kanter have been able to do and the hell they've caused the GSW this series. |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | Shaq in his prime today would eat those two for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. |
Then turn around and eat their children for a midnight snack  |
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