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funkthesuns
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Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 331
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 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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U can still tank and spin it off to the fans that it was because we have a rookie coach and all young players, learning a new system. Young teams and teams implementing a new system are known to struggle.
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panamaniac
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Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11239
Location: PTY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| With the hiring of Walton and the infusion of young talent, I fully expect this team to be on the upswing and improve significantly. Tanking next season would be a huge disappointment. |
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Goldenwest
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2801
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Got to think of the fans and selling tickets too. People are not stupid. The fans, specially the ones with bucks will stop shelling out their cash for tickets if the team continues to tank. Specially since Kobe is gone. People will pay to see a young team on the rise, not a young team of no names tanking. Staples would become half empty by the all star break. |
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Kooper 21
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Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as they have fun like the Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel era im happy. The past few years were brutal mostly due to Kobe's overbearing personality. I like Kobe but his presence on the team was like having your in laws over stay their welcome. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 28 wins would be an eleven game improvement over last year. It would also put us in 4th in the tank standings last year. That would give us a 38% chance of keeping our pick. |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | what's a tank? If we win 25 games this year is that considered tanking? Personally i expect 30 or better. And i think the Lakers FO expects much more than 30. I think they expect to be in the playoff hunt late in the season. |
No. Tanking to me is a concerted decision to lose games to enhance the number of lotto balls.
A team can try its best to win and fall short with 28 wins and not be tanking. |
Then the Lakers never tanked. They were trying their best; they just didn't have enough talent or the right coach. I don't think that they purposely lost. The fans may have started hoping that the Lakers lose games to enhance their draft position, but I don't think the players ever purposely lost. Byron never **purposely** lost. Kupchak wouldn't plan to lose. Laker management thought that they would make the playoffs this year.
The only place where "the tank" existed was for Laker fans trying to give some positive meaning to a very bad year. If the Lakers start 0-15, the tank will be back on--not because anybody in the Lakers organization has decided to get more lotto balls but rather as fans start talking about whom the Lakers might be able to draft.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25083
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | what's a tank? If we win 25 games this year is that considered tanking? Personally i expect 30 or better. And i think the Lakers FO expects much more than 30. I think they expect to be in the playoff hunt late in the season. |
No. Tanking to me is a concerted decision to lose games to enhance the number of lotto balls.
A team can try its best to win and fall short with 28 wins and not be tanking. |
Then the Lakers never tanked. They were trying their best; they just didn't have enough talent or the right coach. I don't think that they purposely lost. The fans may have started hoping that the Lakers lose games to enhance their draft position, but I don't think the players ever purposely lost. Byron never **purposely** lost. Kupchak wouldn't plan to lose. Laker management thought that they would make the playoffs this year.
The only place where "the tank" existed was for Laker fans trying to give some positive meaning to a very bad year. If the Lakers start 0-15, the tank will be back on. |
Whatever people want to call it... It's over!the goal is no longer top 3 draft pick, the goal is playoff spot |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | what's a tank? If we win 25 games this year is that considered tanking? Personally i expect 30 or better. And i think the Lakers FO expects much more than 30. I think they expect to be in the playoff hunt late in the season. |
No. Tanking to me is a concerted decision to lose games to enhance the number of lotto balls.
A team can try its best to win and fall short with 28 wins and not be tanking. |
Then the Lakers never tanked. They were trying their best; they just didn't have enough talent or the right coach. I don't think that they purposely lost. The fans may have started hoping that the Lakers lose games to enhance their draft position, but I don't think the players ever purposely lost. Byron never **purposely** lost. Kupchak wouldn't plan to lose. Laker management thought that they would make the playoffs this year.
The only place where "the tank" existed was for Laker fans trying to give some positive meaning to a very bad year. If the Lakers start 0-15, the tank will be back on. |
Whatever people want to call it... It's over! The goal is no longer top 3 draft pick, the goal is playoff spot |
To the best of my knowledge, nobody in the Lakers organization ever had a goal of having the second worst record. At the beginning of the season, Laker management talked about making the playoffs. There never was a goal to have this poor of a season.
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“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25083
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | what's a tank? If we win 25 games this year is that considered tanking? Personally i expect 30 or better. And i think the Lakers FO expects much more than 30. I think they expect to be in the playoff hunt late in the season. |
No. Tanking to me is a concerted decision to lose games to enhance the number of lotto balls.
A team can try its best to win and fall short with 28 wins and not be tanking. |
Then the Lakers never tanked. They were trying their best; they just didn't have enough talent or the right coach. I don't think that they purposely lost. The fans may have started hoping that the Lakers lose games to enhance their draft position, but I don't think the players ever purposely lost. Byron never **purposely** lost. Kupchak wouldn't plan to lose. Laker management thought that they would make the playoffs this year.
The only place where "the tank" existed was for Laker fans trying to give some positive meaning to a very bad year. If the Lakers start 0-15, the tank will be back on. |
Whatever people want to call it... It's over! The goal is no longer top 3 draft pick, the goal is playoff spot |
To the best of my knowledge, nobody in the Lakers organization ever had a goal of having the second worst record. At the beginning of the season, Laker management talked about making the playoffs. There never was a goal to have this poor of a season. |
Good, so everybody is on the same page. Push for a playoff spot, run an offense, have a defensive scheme... Just not like whatever it was last year |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | 28 wins would be an eleven game improvement over last year. It would also put us in 4th in the tank standings last year. That would give us a 38% chance of keeping our pick. |
hmmm. so you're saying there's a chance |
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JJin77
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 499
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the tank is over. Whether we land big fish through FA or not, we are finally moving forward.
KD was never on my wish list.
Harford is another FA we need to stop waist our time on.
Both Derozen and Batum look like will stay with their own team.
I would love to add Whiteside or Biyombo, but I understand that the competition for their service will be tough as so many teams with better roster can offer same money.
It seems very unlikely that Lakers will lure FAs on their A list, or even B list.
I advise not to set yourself up for a huge let down after a high hopes from this Draft.
However I am so much more excited about this team upcoming season than
past few seasons.
Naturally progression from Dlo, Randle, Clarkson, LNJ alone will net us
+5~6 games from last season. Without Kobe displaying most horrific chuck fest
in the history of NBA(probably even in YMCA level) and B. Scott secretly masturbating on the sideline, I believe 28 wins is a minimum we can achieve even without significant FA signnings. I have been a faithful Kobe defender since Eddie Jones trade(even through shaq break up and colorado incident).
and I believe his 60 pts game has a lot of sentimental value, but it doesn't justify his shameless/selfish embarrassment of entire season. Kobe will be huge addition by subtraction. I am so glad he has retired because now I can adore and respect my favorite player/legend again.
On top of that, we got rid of B.Scott with Luke. We know nothing about Luke the head coach, but we do know that B. Scott is one of the worst NBA coach of all time (and I'm being nice).
Considering all above,
I think it's not impossible to get 33~38 wins with adding few Brandon Basses of the world(not a big name but solid vets). If Mitch misses on his A or B list of players, signing solid vets like Jured Dudely, Noah, M.Williams, Mihimi, Deng etc might help us to get there. It won't make Lakers playoff contender. But I expect this team will be exciting team with full of energy and most of all, we will see the progress in individuals and as team.
We don't need to panic at all.
Last edited by JJin77 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | With the hiring of Walton and the infusion of young talent, I fully expect this team to be on the upswing and improve significantly. Tanking next season would be a huge disappointment. |
I am sure that when discussing the coaching job with Luke, one thing that was said was that the FO is going to do everything they can to build a winner. That would include not tanking.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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dogstar
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Posts: 564
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Deathstroke wrote: |
It's funny because all of us on LG thought we'd win 30-35 games last season after free agency. Then we tanked hard. And now this year without even a final roster this thread is declaring the tank is dead  |
As they like to say, "Hope springs eternal!" |
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dogstar
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Nordvader wrote: | | I'm willing to change my opinion if we bring in actual talent, if we don't are you willing to change yours? |
About tanking? Absolutely not. The team, if they lose, will be b/c they're actually trying.
I mean do I have to define the difference between "tanking" and "trying but losing" for you? |
By playing rookies and second year players mostly, that is the equivalent of tanking.
29 wins got you #5 last year.
Can lakers this year get 29 wins or how many more than that? |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup, no more tanking. If we have a good season, miss the playoffs, and magically land in the top 3 again, so be it. |
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Megaton
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dogstar
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I think this is a bit premature (we don't know free agency will go yet). What happens if this team starts 1-10? We really didn't want to tank going into last season, until we realized Byron was clueless and Kobe had nothing left.
I'm all for shutting down the tank and actually rooting for wins again, but if things get ugly early I can see LGers looking to rev up that engine again. |
I just think philosophically the team has moved on from the tank.
If we start off 1-10, armed with plenty of trade assets, I see a trade to improve the team, etc.
I genuinely don't see the Lakers embracing a concerted and planned movement to lose games in the hopes that the lotto balls fall in their favor. We've benefitted enough from the past 3 years from that IMO and that saga is thankfully closed. |
On the other hand you guys do realize the 2017 draft is gonna be epic as in possibly the best draft in a decade with a load of potential stars including a potential Kobe replacement superstar level SG. Hmmmmm.
Last edited by dogstar on Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Venom
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Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 35
Location: Planet of Symbiotes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kooper 21 wrote: | | As long as they have fun like the Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel era im happy. The past few years were brutal mostly due to Kobe's overbearing personality. I like Kobe but his presence on the team was like having your in laws over stay their welcome. |
Those 90's teams were really fun. |
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Venom
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Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 35
Location: Planet of Symbiotes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dogstar wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I think this is a bit premature (we don't know free agency will go yet). What happens if this team starts 1-10? We really didn't want to tank going into last season, until we realized Byron was clueless and Kobe had nothing left.
I'm all for shutting down the tank and actually rooting for wins again, but if things get ugly early I can see LGers looking to rev up that engine again. |
I just think philosophically the team has moved on from the tank.
If we start off 1-10, armed with plenty of trade assets, I see a trade to improve the team, etc.
I genuinely don't see the Lakers embracing a concerted and planned movement to lose games in the hopes that the lotto balls fall in their favor. We've benefitted enough from the past 3 years from that IMO and that saga is thankfully closed. |
On the other hand you guys do realize the 2017 draft is gonna be epic-ly as in possible the best draft in a decade with a load of potential stars including a potential Kobe replacement superstar level SG. Hmmmmm. |
How do you know about the 2017 draft prospects? Is there a site I can go to to find out about the talent? |
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PurpleAndGOAT
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1351
Location: City of Angels
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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It's not over until the fat lady sings but hopefully she starts humming
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys do realize we have TWO first round picks on the line this season. If we do not get in to the top 3 this year, we lose 2017 and 2019. If we get in to the top 3, we keep 2017 and 2019, losing only 2018. The 2019 picks gets converted to two second round picks. This is what the tank has been training for. |
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dogstar
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Venom wrote: | | dogstar wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I think this is a bit premature (we don't know free agency will go yet). What happens if this team starts 1-10? We really didn't want to tank going into last season, until we realized Byron was clueless and Kobe had nothing left.
I'm all for shutting down the tank and actually rooting for wins again, but if things get ugly early I can see LGers looking to rev up that engine again. |
I just think philosophically the team has moved on from the tank.
If we start off 1-10, armed with plenty of trade assets, I see a trade to improve the team, etc.
I genuinely don't see the Lakers embracing a concerted and planned movement to lose games in the hopes that the lotto balls fall in their favor. We've benefitted enough from the past 3 years from that IMO and that saga is thankfully closed. |
On the other hand you guys do realize the 2017 draft is gonna be epic-ly as in possible the best draft in a decade with a load of potential stars including a potential Kobe replacement superstar level SG. Hmmmmm. |
How do you know about the 2017 draft prospects? Is there a site I can go to to find out about the talent? |
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/24/11936178/nba-mock-draft-2017-preview-loaded
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dukes-latest-one-and-done-phenom-is-no-1-in-way-too-early-2017-nba-mock-draft/
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16451657/2017-nba-draft-preview-chad-ford-josh-jackson-harry-giles-markelle-fultz-more
There's one more really good article i ran into but i cant find it now. |
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Venom
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Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Posts: 35
Location: Planet of Symbiotes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| dogstar wrote: | | Venom wrote: | | dogstar wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I think this is a bit premature (we don't know free agency will go yet). What happens if this team starts 1-10? We really didn't want to tank going into last season, until we realized Byron was clueless and Kobe had nothing left.
I'm all for shutting down the tank and actually rooting for wins again, but if things get ugly early I can see LGers looking to rev up that engine again. |
I just think philosophically the team has moved on from the tank.
If we start off 1-10, armed with plenty of trade assets, I see a trade to improve the team, etc.
I genuinely don't see the Lakers embracing a concerted and planned movement to lose games in the hopes that the lotto balls fall in their favor. We've benefitted enough from the past 3 years from that IMO and that saga is thankfully closed. |
On the other hand you guys do realize the 2017 draft is gonna be epic-ly as in possible the best draft in a decade with a load of potential stars including a potential Kobe replacement superstar level SG. Hmmmmm. |
How do you know about the 2017 draft prospects? Is there a site I can go to to find out about the talent? |
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/24/11936178/nba-mock-draft-2017-preview-loaded
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dukes-latest-one-and-done-phenom-is-no-1-in-way-too-early-2017-nba-mock-draft/
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16451657/2017-nba-draft-preview-chad-ford-josh-jackson-harry-giles-markelle-fultz-more
There's one more really good article i ran into but i cant find it now. |
Thank you. |
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krisobe
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3309
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Orlando did it in 1992-1993, 41-41 losing the tie breaker for 8th. Imagine we go 41-41 missing the playoffs then getting #1 next years draft. Draft Josh Jackson for our starting SG.
DLO
JACKSON
INGRAM
RANDLE
WHITESIDE |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43986
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | You guys do realize we have TWO first round picks on the line this season. If we do not get in to the top 3 this year, we lose 2017 and 2019. If we get in to the top 3, we keep 2017 and 2019, losing only 2018. The 2019 picks gets converted to two second round picks. This is what the tank has been training for. |
You shouldn't have anything to worry about. They don't have the talent to win more than 20 games. If they sign Whiteside, then maybe 30 wins is a possibility. The only way they make the playoffs is if they sign Durant and Whiteside.
That's how far away they are from even being in the hunt.
It's also the reason Luke hasn't even designed a system for this team. They have nothing to build around...
Last edited by JUST-MING on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:20 am; edited 3 times in total |
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