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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Gatekeeper wrote: | Yea or Nay, Puig for Archer? |
I think we can get a better haul for him. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Rays would laugh the Dodgers off the phone if we offered Puig for Archer. Even in a down year, Archer's peripherals are still there, he's 27, and he's on a very friendly contract though 2021. He simply has more value than Yasiel Puig, who, by the way, hurt himself again today. We have to accept the fact that Yasiel Puig's first season and a half in the big leagues was the exception rather than the rule. He hasn't been a difference-making hitter since the middle of the 2014 season. I realize that Archer is a Ray and his ERA doesn't look good right now, but he's the type of high-upside starting pitcher that we would be lucky to get for Puig. I was hoping to use Puig last fall as a way to get Carrasco or Salazar from the Indians. Archer moving to the NL would play well IMO.
Also, Puig can be controlled through 2019, while Archer can be controlled through 2021. Archer's team option in 2021 is only worth $8.25MM. The value of a starting pitcher with his upside and contract is just worth more than Puig at the moment, and Puig has less control left, too.
We would have to give up more than just Puig for Chris Archer. We would almost certainly have to part with a top pitching prospect and Puig. Obviously not Urias and probably not even De Leon, but we have plenty of good pitching prospects we could offer.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "king's ransom" that the White Sox turned down for Chris Sale from an unnamed team was a ransom from the Dodgers. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2733
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Man, we must lead the league in striking out with a runner on third with less than two outs...
Hell, just make contact and you'd likely get a run in... |
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Gatekeeper Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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oasisdude77 wrote: | Man, we must lead the league in striking out with a runner on third with less than two outs...
Hell, just make contact and you'd likely get a run in... |
Justin Turner hits a 1 run HR in the top of the 9th to give us the lead....
...and Jansen promptly blows the save.
Question: What's the abbreviation for blown saves on baseball reference? |
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Gatekeeper Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | oasisdude77 wrote: | Man, we must lead the league in striking out with a runner on third with less than two outs...
Hell, just make contact and you'd likely get a run in... |
Justin Turner hits a 1 run HR in the top of the 9th to give us the lead....
...and Jansen promptly blows the save.
Question: What's the abbreviation for blown saves on baseball reference? |
Off of Oh no less. Not a good day to be the closer. _________________ Character
Manchester United | Greatest European Moments
Fabric of United - Our Belief |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17196 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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damn we needed to win this game |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | damn we needed to win this game |
Yeah wasted a great outing by Mccarthy AND a clutch hr by Turner. |
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2733
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting tired of Jansen giving away these games. That's at least four he's given away. I know he can't be perfect, but I'm just sick of this crap already |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm so sick of this bleep. The Dodgers have made a habit out of losing games that they should have won for like 20 years now. It's really frustrating being a Dodger fan. Constantly lesser than the sum of their parts. Year after year. The one team that I really felt was going to win the Series was in 2013. We had so many things going for us and we were hot at the right time, and then Joe Freaking Kelly goes and breaks Hanley Ramirez's ribs in the first at-bat of Game 1 of the NLCS. Hanley was the best hitter in baseball at that time.
But I digress. I'm just frustrated. Jansen is almost unhittable, his ERA is under 1.50, his WHIP is under .75, and the league isn't even hitting .160 off of him, and yet he's given up almost all of his runs this season in big spots. And I don't know if this says more about me or about the Dodgers, but I was half expecting Jansen to blow the save in the bottom of the 9th. I really was.
I had to take 2 Excedrin after he gave up that homer to Gyorko. SMH. |
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2733
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | damn we needed to win this game |
One out away from being only three back from the Giants.
Thanks Kenley.... |
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2733
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | I'm so sick of this bleep. The Dodgers have made a habit out of losing games that they should have won for like 20 years now. It's really frustrating being a Dodger fan. Constantly lesser than the sum of their parts. Year after year. The one team that I really felt was going to win the Series was in 2013. We had so many things going for us and we were hot at the right time, and then Joe Freaking Kelly goes and breaks Hanley Ramirez's ribs in the first at-bat of Game 1 of the NLCS. Hanley was the best hitter in baseball at that time.
But I digress. I'm just frustrated. Jansen is almost unhittable, his ERA is under 1.50, his WHIP is under .75, and the league isn't even hitting .160 off of him, and yet he's given up almost all of his runs this season in big spots. And I don't know if this says more about me or about the Dodgers, but I was half expecting Jansen to blow the save in the bottom of the 9th. I really was.
I had to take 2 Excedrin after he gave up that homer to Gyorko. SMH. |
I hear ya man.
Without his blown saves, we're have 5 more wins and are leading the NL is West |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | On the bright side, if this continues, Kenley's price will plummet. |
He's still going to get 4 or 5 years and probably something close to $15MM per year. I wonder if the Dodgers will think it's good business to pay that for a closer. I mean, is Frankie Rodriguez as good as Kenley? Of course not. Yet he's blown less saves this season. There's only so much that a closer can do. They don't pitch a ton of innings, obviously. A lot of teams simply wouldn't ever pay that much for a 70-80 inning pitcher. But if Papelbon could get 4 years and $50MM, and that was a few years ago, Jansen will exceed that for sure.
The problem is that if you don't retain Kenley, you obviously have to replace him. Unless you think that Frankie Montas can be a closer or something. |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17196 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:28 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | I'm so sick of this bleep. The Dodgers have made a habit out of losing games that they should have won for like 20 years now. It's really frustrating being a Dodger fan. Constantly lesser than the sum of their parts. Year after year. The one team that I really felt was going to win the Series was in 2013. We had so many things going for us and we were hot at the right time, and then Joe Freaking Kelly goes and breaks Hanley Ramirez's ribs in the first at-bat of Game 1 of the NLCS. Hanley was the best hitter in baseball at that time.
But I digress. I'm just frustrated. Jansen is almost unhittable, his ERA is under 1.50, his WHIP is under .75, and the league isn't even hitting .160 off of him, and yet he's given up almost all of his runs this season in big spots. And I don't know if this says more about me or about the Dodgers, but I was half expecting Jansen to blow the save in the bottom of the 9th. I really was.
I had to take 2 Excedrin after he gave up that homer to Gyorko. SMH. |
Dodgerbro, I feel your pain. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | damn we needed to win this game |
Yeah wasted a great outing by Mccarthy AND a clutch hr by Turner. |
And a loss by the Giants with MadBum on the mound |
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sickside323 Star Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2008 Posts: 1454 Location: East Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:07 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | rwongega wrote: | On the bright side, if this continues, Kenley's price will plummet. |
He's still going to get 4 or 5 years and probably something close to $15MM per year. I wonder if the Dodgers will think it's good business to pay that for a closer. I mean, is Frankie Rodriguez as good as Kenley? Of course not. Yet he's blown less saves this season. There's only so much that a closer can do. They don't pitch a ton of innings, obviously. A lot of teams simply wouldn't ever pay that much for a 70-80 inning pitcher. But if Papelbon could get 4 years and $50MM, and that was a few years ago, Jansen will exceed that for sure.
The problem is that if you don't retain Kenley, you obviously have to replace him. Unless you think that Frankie Montas can be a closer or something. |
They have to pay him, no ifs, ands or buts. He is the only bullpen arm that is consistently good, year in and year out. I'll lose my **** if they don't retain him. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: |
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sickside323 wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | rwongega wrote: | On the bright side, if this continues, Kenley's price will plummet. |
He's still going to get 4 or 5 years and probably something close to $15MM per year. I wonder if the Dodgers will think it's good business to pay that for a closer. I mean, is Frankie Rodriguez as good as Kenley? Of course not. Yet he's blown less saves this season. There's only so much that a closer can do. They don't pitch a ton of innings, obviously. A lot of teams simply wouldn't ever pay that much for a 70-80 inning pitcher. But if Papelbon could get 4 years and $50MM, and that was a few years ago, Jansen will exceed that for sure.
The problem is that if you don't retain Kenley, you obviously have to replace him. Unless you think that Frankie Montas can be a closer or something. |
They have to pay him, no ifs, ands or buts. He is the only bullpen arm that is consistently good, year in and year out. I'll lose my **** if they don't retain him. |
I'm not convinced that they do. They let Greinke go. Many teams simply don't value closers that highly. With all of Jansen's incredible peripherals, he's blown 5 saves. You take any closer than can get the job done--Sam Dyson, Steve Cishek, Francisco Rodriguez, etc.--and put them on the Dodgers this season, and are the Dodgers any worse off? That's the thing. Jansen is probably more of a sure thing than any of those guys, but the sample size is far less for a closer. They don't pitch 200+ innings. And although Kenley has been really good for a few years now, relievers usually have short shelf-lives. Now, as I said, they would certainly have to replace Kenley if they don't shell out the big bucks. But I'm not convinced that they will sign him. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, I will also point out that I have been among the most vocal about the fact that I think we screwed up in backing out of the Chapman deal. Is anyone talking about his domestic violence stuff now, as the trade deadline approaches? Of course not. They are talking about the fact that he's throwing 105 MPH pitches. The Reds were selling low, and we should have taken advantage of that. Now the Yankees are probably going to sell high. |
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leor_77 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 21920
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | By the way, I will also point out that I have been among the most vocal about the fact that I think we screwed up in backing out of the Chapman deal. Is anyone talking about his domestic violence stuff now, as the trade deadline approaches? Of course not. They are talking about the fact that he's throwing 105 MPH pitches. The Reds were selling low, and we should have taken advantage of that. Now the Yankees are probably going to sell high. |
I agree with you, but our bullpen wasn't entirely the issue last night. They took us 16 innings. It was our hitting with RISP that (bleep) us over. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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leor_77 wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | By the way, I will also point out that I have been among the most vocal about the fact that I think we screwed up in backing out of the Chapman deal. Is anyone talking about his domestic violence stuff now, as the trade deadline approaches? Of course not. They are talking about the fact that he's throwing 105 MPH pitches. The Reds were selling low, and we should have taken advantage of that. Now the Yankees are probably going to sell high. |
I agree with you, but our bullpen wasn't entirely the issue last night. They took us 16 innings. It was our hitting with RISP that (bleep) us over. |
Sorry, but when your closer is in the game with a 1-run lead and 2 outs and nobody on and the league is batting .160 off him, that's a game you have to win. Particularly when you just get a huge HR in the top of the 9th. Sure, we should've been up by more than a run considering how many men we had on base and how many they had on base in the game. But Jansen has to close that game out. Just has to. They talk about "shutdown innings", which is when your team scores, you need your starting pitcher to go out there and shut down the opposing team from answering back in their next turn at bat. Well, that 9th inning was the ultimate shutdown inning. We needed it and didn't get it. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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This could qualify as HUGE news...
Chris Sale has been scratched from his scheduled start today for the White Sox.
Ken Rosenthal is saying that it's because he thinks Sale is ill, but the timing is pretty coincidental, with reports recently coming out that they might be willing to listen. Let the speculation begin! |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31783 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
Oh my. Rosenthal now reporting that Sale is NOT ill. Repeat, he's not ill.
Wow.
Texas, Houston, Boston, and the Dodgers would appear to be the best matches on paper, as contending teams that have a lot of high-end prospects. I suppose you could include the Cubs, but they already have a great rotation and are not likely to give up their best prospects for another starter IMO. |
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