You want democracy, this is what democracy looks like. If you are going to get upset and start ridiculing and calling people names when they have an opinion that differs from yours, maybe democracy isn't for you.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:32 pm Post subject:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
You want democracy, this is what democracy looks like. If you are going to get upset and start ridiculing and calling people names when they have an opinion that differs from yours, maybe democracy isn't for you.
Clinton Cash Full documentary:
I totally support the democratic process and the fact that everyone gets to participate.
However, there's nothing about the democratic process that says people have to sit back and watch morons, xenophobes, racists, bigots and misogynists go unchallenged by not calling them out on such BS when they make their run at gaining powering and ruining the progress the country has made over the last 100 years. OR pointing out the hypocrisy of people pretending they are so "progressive" when really all they are doing is posturing for attention while actually inhibiting progress, or worse yet, sacrificing the progress that has already been made out of selfishness.
Doing so is part of the process as well. If you can't understand that, then it's you who has the problem with understanding democracy. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
Wow, if we could turn the irony in that comment into a fuel source, the nation could be Green forever. :rolls eyes: _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
You want democracy, this is what democracy looks like. If you are going to get upset and start ridiculing and calling people names when they have an opinion that differs from yours, maybe democracy isn't for you.
Clinton Cash Full documentary:
I totally support the democratic process and the fact that everyone gets to participate.
However, there's nothing about the democratic process that says people have to sit back and watch morons, xenophobes, racists, bigots and misogynists go unchallenged by not calling them out on such BS when they make their run at gaining powering and ruining the progress the country has made over the last 100 years. OR pointing out the hypocrisy of people pretending they are so "progressive" when really all they are doing is posturing for attention while actually inhibiting progress, or worse yet, sacrificing the progress that has already been made out of selfishness.
Doing so is part of the process as well. If you can't understand that, then it's you who has the problem with understanding democracy.
Pretty much making my point. So anyone who disagrees with you does not understand the situation and does not understand democracy. Elitist much?
I thought Warren's speech was kinda meh. Didn't have the passion and dynamics of Michelle. I don't recall anything she said. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
You know DMR was a Bernie voter, right? We were BOTH talking about the same people Sarah Silverman (another Bernie voter) was talking about when she said they were being ridiculous. Are they looking down their noses too?
I know DMR was a Bernie voter.
I just think this "ignore what made you vote for Bernie, HRC and her supporters know best" attitude is condescending. At least it is to me. Calling people crying 4 year olds isn't the best way of reaching out, even if some of these people are. You know they aren't going to vote for HRC, so why inflame them further? They'll either come around or they won't.
Taking their flags and whatnot is just bad press. Take the high road.
Definitely a stupid and inflammatory move that I would have thought the party would be above.
As for the first part, no one is saying to ignore what made you vote for Bernie. In fact people are saying exactly the opposite. If you truly care for what Bernie brought to the table, then do what you can to preserve it. If you really care about those values - which are based on the progress this country has already made - then you don't threaten to burn it all down because you're upset your candidate isn't going to win. You don't set the country BACK by going the "I'M taking my ball and going home" route - which is where the very apt "4 years-old" analogy CL made comes in. The attitude of the #NeverHilary crowd is the epitome of childish, cut off your nose to spite your face nonsense. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:56 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
That's a fair point. Of course, it's also fair to say that if you throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming, the grownups are going to tend to look down at you. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
That's a fair point. Of course, it's also fair to say that if you throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming, the grownups are going to tend to look down at you.
Standing up for something you believe in is considered throwing yourself on the floor kicking and screaming? So the grown up thing to do is just to sell out and compromise your morals?
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:06 pm Post subject:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
You want democracy, this is what democracy looks like. If you are going to get upset and start ridiculing and calling people names when they have an opinion that differs from yours, maybe democracy isn't for you.
Clinton Cash Full documentary:
I totally support the democratic process and the fact that everyone gets to participate.
However, there's nothing about the democratic process that says people have to sit back and watch morons, xenophobes, racists, bigots and misogynists go unchallenged by not calling them out on such BS when they make their run at gaining powering and ruining the progress the country has made over the last 100 years. OR pointing out the hypocrisy of people pretending they are so "progressive" when really all they are doing is posturing for attention while actually inhibiting progress, or worse yet, sacrificing the progress that has already been made out of selfishness.
Doing so is part of the process as well. If you can't understand that, then it's you who has the problem with understanding democracy.
Pretty much making my point. So anyone who disagrees with you does not understand the situation and does not understand democracy. Elitist much?
I'm not making your point at all.
It was you who took the "maybe democracy isn't for you" approach to people who you disagree with. I'm just putting out the counter argument to your accusation.
The democratic process is about everyone weighing in and having an opportunity cast their vote equally. I haven't said anything that counters that. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be allowed to participate or that when the votes come in the process shouldn't be respected.
The democratic concept says we have to respect the results. But there is nothing about the democratic process that says someone has to respect the positions and views use to arrive at their vote. We have to respect others' right to vote, but in no way is anyone obligated to respect the way someone else votes, nor does democracy deny the option of expressing that disagreement with that vote - because that is also what democracy is. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 pm Post subject:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
That's a fair point. Of course, it's also fair to say that if you throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming, the grownups are going to tend to look down at you.
Standing up for something you believe in is considered throwing yourself on the floor kicking and screaming? So the grown up thing to do is just to sell out and compromise your morals?
The grown up thing to do iso to admit defeat when you lose, and maybe care more about your principles in the mid terms when your minority but sizable coalition could carry some clout. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
You want democracy, this is what democracy looks like. If you are going to get upset and start ridiculing and calling people names when they have an opinion that differs from yours, maybe democracy isn't for you.
Clinton Cash Full documentary:
I totally support the democratic process and the fact that everyone gets to participate.
However, there's nothing about the democratic process that says people have to sit back and watch morons, xenophobes, racists, bigots and misogynists go unchallenged by not calling them out on such BS when they make their run at gaining powering and ruining the progress the country has made over the last 100 years. OR pointing out the hypocrisy of people pretending they are so "progressive" when really all they are doing is posturing for attention while actually inhibiting progress, or worse yet, sacrificing the progress that has already been made out of selfishness.
Doing so is part of the process as well. If you can't understand that, then it's you who has the problem with understanding democracy.
Pretty much making my point. So anyone who disagrees with you does not understand the situation and does not understand democracy. Elitist much?
I'm not making your point at all.
It was you who took the "maybe democracy isn't for you" approach to people who you disagree with. I'm just putting out the counter argument to your accusation.
The democratic process is about everyone weighing in and having an opportunity cast their vote equally. I haven't said anything that counters that. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be allowed to participate or that when the votes come in the process shouldn't be respected.
The democratic concept says we have to respect the results. But there is nothing about the democratic process that says someone has to respect the positions and views use to arrive at their vote. We have to respect others' right to vote, but in no way is anyone obligated to respect the way someone else votes, nor does democracy deny the option of expressing that disagreement with that vote - because that is also what democracy is.
I have respect for people who want to vote Hillary and for those who do not. From your posts though you seem to detest anyone who feels Jill Stein or another candidate is more representative of their position than Hillary. I never detested people voting against Hillary, only supported those who wish to vote the way they feel best represents themselves.
You just continue to go deeper down your elitist rabbit hole with your disdain for anyone not agreeing with you.
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
That's a fair point. Of course, it's also fair to say that if you throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming, the grownups are going to tend to look down at you.
Standing up for something you believe in is considered throwing yourself on the floor kicking and screaming? So the grown up thing to do is just to sell out and compromise your morals?
The grown up thing to do iso to admit defeat when you lose, and maybe care more about your principles in the mid terms when your minority but sizable coalition could carry some clout.
Hillary is too indebted to her big money donors. I disagree that the grown up thing to do is to blindly support her. The grown up thing to do is to evaluate the field and see who is most consistent with your beliefs. If that is Jill Stein rather than Hillary, it is not the grown up thing to do to vote for Hillary.
Exactly. They were looking to advance their candidate who has been a member of their party as opposed to the outsider who recently and conveniently jumped on board to take advantage of the parties reach.
For someone who claims to be a Bernie voter, you sure have a negative and opportunist viewpoint of the man and his journey. Maybe it is you who supported Bernie because it was the cool thing to do while living in LA's westside.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:56 pm Post subject:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm disappointed with Bernie's opening remarks. It's more about him than supporting Hillary.
They had to soothe the hurt feelings of the boo-birds first and make them feel important.
The problem is that they already feel self-important.
It's like when you offer a crying 4-year old a cookie if they'll stop crying.
And we wonder why Bernie voters are pissed maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
That's a fair point. Of course, it's also fair to say that if you throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming, the grownups are going to tend to look down at you.
Standing up for something you believe in is considered throwing yourself on the floor kicking and screaming? So the grown up thing to do is just to sell out and compromise your morals?
The grown up thing to do iso to admit defeat when you lose, and maybe care more about your principles in the mid terms when your minority but sizable coalition could carry some clout.
Hillary is too indebted to her big money donors. I disagree that the grown up thing to do is to blindly support her. The grown up thing to do is to evaluate the field and see who is most consistent with your beliefs. If that is Jill Stein rather than Hillary, it is not the grown up thing to do to vote for Hillary.
Actually, the grown up thing is to recognize nuanced differences between all and nothing. Fortunately, you live in California, so you can afford to waste a protest vote I suppose, but let's not pretend it's something it isnt. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Dont let anyone ever tell you this country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again, because this right now is the greatest country on earth- Flotus
I thought Warren's speech was kinda meh. Didn't have the passion and dynamics of Michelle. I don't recall anything she said.
It was a tamer Warren speech, but she did have to follow Michelle
Strong hint to me that there was a larger goal among the speakers to not resemble the RNC freakshow, especially after the castigation of the right's behavior by Hillary backers like Liz. Fine by me because she'll eventually go back to her other role of attack dog once away from the attempted civility of this convention (save for the booers).
Problem with youthful zeal of fighting the power is that they don't know what to do other than to boo and block. That's not just the more vocal Bernie peeps either. That's about the best I can do to cut them some slack. Same thing afflicts other protest campaigns with a large contingent of 20-somethings. They have a lot of zeal and passion and energy. Functionally, they have healthy bodies that allow them to walk for many blocks. You ain't gonna see too many white hairs going the distance with them even if they wanted to. They just lack the historical perspective and ability to think beyond their cause and maybe that's largely a function of not having to worry about the future of kids of their own. These younger protesters ARE someone's kids. In some cases, they don't even seem capable of doing things to actually make their demands come to fruition. They'd just rather yell and march. It's not all them, either, that's true. There are some older heads among the booers too. Their personal issues are probably a lot more permanent than any that a 21 yr old has. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
We're supposed to be mad at the Russians because the DNC was rigged?
This the sort of bombast I keep seeing in media headlines. The fact that none of the e-mails actually support it deters no one.
The emails showing they wanted to attack Bernie as much as possible doesn't support that?
All of the ideas they speculated about using were shot down within the same email chain. They never actually used any of the ideas to do anything. The worst you could say is they wanted to make Bernie look bad but they didn't follow it up by actually doing anything. So again, how did they rig anything? The voters voted. HRC got more votes and it had nothing to do with how the DNC staffers felt about it.
If you would provide the link to that, I'd greatly appreciate the effort.
Thanks.
Here's a good summary with links to specific emails. Link
We're supposed to be mad at the Russians because the DNC was rigged?
This the sort of bombast I keep seeing in media headlines. The fact that none of the e-mails actually support it deters no one.
The emails showing they wanted to attack Bernie as much as possible doesn't support that?
All of the ideas they speculated about using were shot down within the same email chain. They never actually used any of the ideas to do anything. The worst you could say is they wanted to make Bernie look bad but they didn't follow it up by actually doing anything. So again, how did they rig anything? The voters voted. HRC got more votes and it had nothing to do with how the DNC staffers felt about it.
If you would provide the link to that, I'd greatly appreciate the effort.
Thanks.
Here's a good summary with links to specific emails. Link
That's some good stuff, that I couldn't find, so a big thanks. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
I honestly think those email leaks a day before the DNC could cost Clinton the election. I think a good amount of Bernie supporters feel so hurt and betrayed they will vote for third party or stay home. CNN had a poll today that said 64% of Bernie supporters will vote for Clinton. That was a lot higher a few weeks ago. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.
Last edited by 32 on Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
maybe it's every HRC voter looking down their noses at them?
