|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| STiG909 wrote: | | Some of these posts are ridiculous. Randle just played his rookie season with a repaired tibia. For a 21yo kid who took a year off, he's well on his way to becoming a special player. How some of you write him off, it's disturbing. I think LO and Randle are incomparable in styles because both have two very different body types. In my opinion, Randle has a higher ceiling if he can become a threat from 3(and the 3 spot). |
I'm not speaking for others, but the concerns I have re: Randle's upside have a lot to do with issues I've observed with his gross motor movements. I'm not a neuroscientist, so I may be completely missing the mark here. However, I believe that elite athletes tend to possess an abundance of finer motor movements to help control their game. Moreover, I'm pretty certain that Randle has long since passed the age at which such gifts would have expressed themselves.
So unless Julius develops a game built around really, really, really strong fundamentals, I just don't see the scenario where he becomes better than prime Lamar Odom (at least insofar as positively impacting the game). That said, I have doubts that he can bring to bear the focus and determination to make this happen because I think this level of commitment would be akin to the level we saw for 15 - 20 years with Kobe. And I just don't see the pathway where Julius starts devoting himself to the game in the same way that Kobe did for almost two decades. But I think it will require that level of commitment to reach (and probably exceed) prime Lamar Odom play. Therefore, I don't see it happening (but I'll be happy to be proven otherwise) ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dlofan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 395
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Truck Turner wrote: |
What Kobe said was that Julius was Lamar Odom is Zach Randolph's body.
I think people are short selling Julius' court vision and passing. One of the first things that stood out to me about Julius during his first summer league was his court vision.
Sometimes I read comments about Julius and I think a lot of people didn't actually watch him very much throughout the entire season. A lot of the things people are saying he can't do or can't improve on are things he did during his best games of the season. Some people just aren't willing to give Julius time, even though most knew he'd be a project. |
Kobe is spot on imo
Randle will probably never be the post player that ZBO is. He's not nearly as physical. However, he has better perimeter skills than ZBO. This brings us to Odom. Randle is nowhere near the athlete that Odom was. He doesn't jump as high, isn't as quick, and doesn't have his body control. In part because as Kobe alluded to, he has ZBO's body. I think with Randle you have some combination of the 2. A poor mans ZBO in the post along with some of the all around skills of Odom, which is still a very good basketball player |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2-3 years
_________________
Dominating every day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJ_LA
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 121
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Give Kobe's work ethic and drive to Lamar, and Lamar becomes a superstar. Do the same with Randle, he becomes an all-star. To answer the OPs question though, Randle in his prime will be about as good as Lamar in his prime, which is saying a lot.
I'm predicting a breakout year for Randle. New start in a new system. The injury is not in his head anymore. His confidence is growing everyday, and playing against Team USA should be a great boost going into the regular season.
I've already said that we're winning 41 games and fighting for the playoffs, that's how optimistic I am. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Anapolis
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 3331
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Realistically? Probably atleast 4-5 years. From 2007-2011 which are by far Odom's best years he was a staple of defense and offensive efficiency. I would say Randle is a year or two away from 24 year old Odom (his last year in Mia).
Defensively he may never be better? Offensively maybe because he is aggressive. He has to be efficient though like shoot well over 55%. Idk?
I find it very hard to judge any of the young guns. I think we are still 3-4 years away from that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23903
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
The more I think about the Odom/Randle comparison, the more I dislike it.
Odom used to get compared to Magic. A big who can handle the ball, distribute, run point, shoot a little, and play positions 1-5 if you need him to. Ultimately he fell way short but he was smooth and skilled on the court. Randle is very raw and rigid so far.
Randle is a left handed player with Zach Randolphs body, not his game. You can tell that he has always been bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone so he never had to learn secondary post moves, up and unders, etc. He never had to learn how to create shots from outside so he could keep defenders off balance. Once he got to the NBA, he no longer had that size advantage and the lack of fine tuned basketball skills was very evident. His current game is more suitable for pickup games and doesn't have a clean fit in a team format. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43986
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Treble Clef wrote: | The more I think about the Odom/Randle comparison, the more I dislike it.
Odom used to get compared to Magic. A big who can handle the ball, distribute, run point, shoot a little, and play positions 1-5 if you need him to. Ultimately he fell way short but he was smooth and skilled on the court. Randle is very raw and rigid so far.
Randle is a left handed player with Zach Randolphs body, not his game. You can tell that he has always been bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone so he never had to learn secondary post moves, up and unders, etc. He never had to learn how to create shots from outside so he could keep defenders off balance. Once he got to the NBA, he no longer had that size advantage and the lack of fine tuned basketball skills was very evident. His current game is more suitable for pickup games and doesn't have a clean fit in a team format. |
Odom was nothing like Magic. You should educate yourself.
1980 · 1981 · 1982 · 1983 · 1984 · 1985 · 1986 · 1987 · 1988 · 1989 · 1990 · 1991
I don't think Randle is that far off, since Odom set the bar that low.
Odom always went left. He had some of the dumbest offensive charges I have ever seen. I am still "salty" about the Sac loss. His man defense was bad, scrubs like Melvin Ely would cut him up in the post. He blew more point blank layups than I want to try to remember. Odom did have length to close out on perimeter shooters. I remember him blocking Rashard Lewis corner 3's on late close outs. I suppose that is this perceived "defense" gap? Close out against stretch 4's? I prefer better man defense in the post. Randle has quick hands and feet. I prefer Randle attend the Karl Malone school of defense. Garnett 2003: 27.0 PPG (51.4%) 15.7 RPG 5.2 APG
Garnett 2004: 23.7 PPG (46.3%) 13.5 RPG 4.5 APG
Duncan 2003: 28.0 PPG (52.9%) 11.8 RPG 4.8 APG
Duncan 2004: 20.7 PPG (47.3%) 12.2 RPG 3.3 APG https://j.gifs.com/kRk0zX.gif  .
Karl contained both Duncan and Garnett at age 40 playing on a bad wheel.
Last edited by JUST-MING on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ^ He said he fell way short of Magic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kobeandgary
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Randle is to Odom as Odom is to Magic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23903
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | The more I think about the Odom/Randle comparison, the more I dislike it.
Odom used to get compared to Magic. A big who can handle the ball, distribute, run point, shoot a little, and play positions 1-5 if you need him to. Ultimately he fell way short but he was smooth and skilled on the court. Randle is very raw and rigid so far.
Randle is a left handed player with Zach Randolphs body, not his game. You can tell that he has always been bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone so he never had to learn secondary post moves, up and unders, etc. He never had to learn how to create shots from outside so he could keep defenders off balance. Once he got to the NBA, he no longer had that size advantage and the lack of fine tuned basketball skills was very evident. His current game is more suitable for pickup games and doesn't have a clean fit in a team format. |
Odom was nothing like Magic. You should educate yourself.
1980 · 1981 · 1982 · 1983 · 1984 · 1985 · 1986 · 1987 · 1988 · 1989 · 1990 · 1991
I don't think Randle is that far off, since Odom set the bar that low.
Odom always went left. He had some of the dumbest offensive charges I have ever seen. I am still "salty" about the Sac loss. His man defense was bad, scrubs like Melvin Ely would cut him up in the post. He blew more point blank layups than I want to try to remember. Odom did have length to close out on perimeter shooters. I remember him blocking Rashard Lewis corner 3's on late close outs. I suppose that is this perceived "defense" gap? Close out against stretch 4's? I prefer better man defense in the post. Randle has quick hands and feet. I prefer Randle attend the Karl Malone school of defense. Garnett 2003: 27.0 PPG (51.4%) 15.7 RPG 5.2 APG
Garnett 2004: 23.7 PPG (46.3%) 13.5 RPG 4.5 APG
Duncan 2003: 28.0 PPG (52.9%) 11.8 RPG 4.8 APG
Duncan 2004: 20.7 PPG (47.3%) 12.2 RPG 3.3 APG https://j.gifs.com/kRk0zX.gif .
Karl contained both Duncan and Garnett at age 40 playing on a bad wheel. |
I'm not sure if you read any of my post  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Treble Clef wrote: | The more I think about the Odom/Randle comparison, the more I dislike it.
Odom used to get compared to Magic. A big who can handle the ball, distribute, run point, shoot a little, and play positions 1-5 if you need him to. Ultimately he fell way short but he was smooth and skilled on the court. Randle is very raw and rigid so far.
Randle is a left handed player with Zach Randolphs body, not his game. You can tell that he has always been bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone so he never had to learn secondary post moves, up and unders, etc. He never had to learn how to create shots from outside so he could keep defenders off balance. Once he got to the NBA, he no longer had that size advantage and the lack of fine tuned basketball skills was very evident. His current game is more suitable for pickup games and doesn't have a clean fit in a team format. |
It's not about what his game can do for the team right now it's about development and what he can do in the future if the coaching staff develop him correctly. What we do know of Randle is that he can handle ball, he can pass a bit in the half court and he's fast. What he becomes later on is up to him and how we develop him to suit our system. I don't see why we need to mention what he brings to the team right now as if he's a completed player. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If we are going to actually wait until he gets into his prime then it makes this whole thread null and void.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
At his best, he will be a poor man's Barkley. 17/12/3.
_________________
Dominating every day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NYCLaker
Sixth Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Randle is more like Ron artest when he got jacked than Lamar odom. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | The more I think about the Odom/Randle comparison, the more I dislike it.
Odom used to get compared to Magic. A big who can handle the ball, distribute, run point, shoot a little, and play positions 1-5 if you need him to. Ultimately he fell way short but he was smooth and skilled on the court. Randle is very raw and rigid so far.
Randle is a left handed player with Zach Randolphs body, not his game. You can tell that he has always been bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone so he never had to learn secondary post moves, up and unders, etc. He never had to learn how to create shots from outside so he could keep defenders off balance. Once he got to the NBA, he no longer had that size advantage and the lack of fine tuned basketball skills was very evident. His current game is more suitable for pickup games and doesn't have a clean fit in a team format. |
Odom was nothing like Magic. You should educate yourself.
1980 · 1981 · 1982 · 1983 · 1984 · 1985 · 1986 · 1987 · 1988 · 1989 · 1990 · 1991
I don't think Randle is that far off, since Odom set the bar that low.
Odom always went left. He had some of the dumbest offensive charges I have ever seen. I am still "salty" about the Sac loss. His man defense was bad, scrubs like Melvin Ely would cut him up in the post. He blew more point blank layups than I want to try to remember. Odom did have length to close out on perimeter shooters. I remember him blocking Rashard Lewis corner 3's on late close outs. I suppose that is this perceived "defense" gap? Close out against stretch 4's? I prefer better man defense in the post. Randle has quick hands and feet. I prefer Randle attend the Karl Malone school of defense. Garnett 2003: 27.0 PPG (51.4%) 15.7 RPG 5.2 APG
Garnett 2004: 23.7 PPG (46.3%) 13.5 RPG 4.5 APG
Duncan 2003: 28.0 PPG (52.9%) 11.8 RPG 4.8 APG
Duncan 2004: 20.7 PPG (47.3%) 12.2 RPG 3.3 APG https://j.gifs.com/kRk0zX.gif .
Karl contained both Duncan and Garnett at age 40 playing on a bad wheel. |
I think what you've said about Odom's defense (on the perimeter better, around the post, poorer) provides a good contrast to Randle's game. Randle's the opposite, a strength player suited for defense around the rim rather than a mover/slider who could close out on shooters with length. I think Randle's game won't develop in the direction of Odom's game at all. Evem on offense, Randle's ballhandling is primitive compared to Odom. Their strengths, weaknesses, physicality and best uses are entirely different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NYCLaker wrote: | | Randle is more like Ron artest when he got jacked than Lamar odom. |
If only he defended like Ron.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilkes52
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
Location: Far from home
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Julius seemed to be a slightly better Tristan Thompson at season's close, with better potential than TT to improve further as his career rolls on. He's ferocious going after both loose balls and caroms of missed shots. Those are probably his best game strengths. As driver or pull up shooter or passer, he's got a ways to go. I hope for improvements in this off-season.
_________________
“These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wilkes52 wrote: | | Julius seemed to be a slightly better Tristan Thompson at season's close, with better potential than TT to improve further as his career rolls on. He's ferocious going after both loose balls and caroms of missed shots. Those are probably his best game strengths. As driver or pull up shooter or passer, he's got a ways to go. I hope for improvements in this off-season. |
Tristan doesn't fancy himself as a ball handling big man who tries to score on isos. I hope that iteration of Jules is in the past.
TT is a beast b/c he does all the blue collar work (rebounding, defense, screens).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bonkers
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 6071
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Opposing fan viewpoint of Julius  :
| Quote: | | tritan thompson if Tristan didn't play any d... That's not a rotation player |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
underdogsgv
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 124
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Terry Cummings is a good comparison to Julius, I think. Cummings could handle the ball a little, was never that great defensively, had a high motor, scored in similar ways to Julius, had lots of offensive moves (which Julius will probably develop).
Not sure about Barkley comparisons. Barkley had such a soft touch around the basket, was one of the best finishers ever. Julius is an above avg ball handler for a big forward, but Barkley handled the ball like a guard. Bullied people despite being 6'4". That knack Barkley had for making contested shots around the basket is not easy to learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| underdogsgv wrote: | Terry Cummings is a good comparison to Julius, I think. Cummings could handle the ball a little, was never that great defensively, had a high motor, scored in similar ways to Julius, had lots of offensive moves (which Julius will probably develop).
Not sure about Barkley comparisons. Barkley had such a soft touch around the basket, was one of the best finishers ever. Julius is an above avg ball handler for a big forward, but Barkley handled the ball like a guard. Bullied people despite being 6'4". That knack Barkley had for making contested shots around the basket is not easy to learn. |
Did Terry Cummings like to iso? Honestly, I forget. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cummings didn't persevere through contact - nor initiate it around the rim - as much as Randle has tended to.
Terry also handled the ball better than Randle has done.
TC also had a solid mid-range game as well, set up by a reliable jumper and countered with a good fake-n-drive move. He had a big scorer's game. Randall, not so much in any of these areas so far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30680
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| As a 21 year old rookie, Cummings averaged 24/10.6 on 52% shooting. That's a light year from where Jules' game is at the moment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
underdogsgv
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 124
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cummings' bread and butter was that mid range spot up game, but when you look at all the highlights you see that when isolated versus a defender he was good at putting the ball on the floor and/or getting good shots. If they crowded him he would put the ball on the floor and attack or would make good passes to Moncrief or Pressey or whoever. And he still got a lot of his points by banging down low. On D he was overmatched but in all other facets of his game he was pretty good. Much like what I am _guessing_ Randle's ceiling will be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raijin
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RJ_LA wrote: | Give Kobe's work ethic and drive to Lamar, and Lamar becomes a superstar. Do the same with Randle, he becomes an all-star. To answer the OPs question though, Randle in his prime will be about as good as Lamar in his prime, which is saying a lot.
I'm predicting a breakout year for Randle. New start in a new system. The injury is not in his head anymore. His confidence is growing everyday, and playing against Team USA should be a great boost going into the regular season.
I've already said that we're winning 41 games and fighting for the playoffs, that's how optimistic I am. |
If he does then it's a perfect time to trade him, because his peak doesn't look too promising to me.
Peak: A season or two of being a borderline all star but not making the team.
Solid starter.
_________________
"It was tough," Kobe Bryant said. "But when it got really tough for me, I just checked myself in." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
