Pierce had a better overall game IMO, and I feel he was a clutch player at clutch moments for a long time, even for some blah teams and for a club making repeated playoff runs.
Carmelo may be the better pure scorer than Pierce (Pierce the better perimeter shooter however), but I lump Melo in with Dominique, Alex English and George Gervin: leading scorers on n'er do well teams, not innovators or inspirational players or difference makers.
Yeah, that's how I see it too. Really good scorer, but miscast as a #1 option who could lead the team to the championship.
Pierce was able to do that (albeit with a really good crew that included KG/Allen/Rondo) as the lead guy.
Not so sure about that. I think it's a hard argument to make that Garnett wasn't clearly the best player on that championship team. Garnett finished 3rd in MVP voting. Pierce finished 14th, not to mention Garnett was DPOY. In the Finals though, Pierce had a considerably more favorable matchup, going against the iron curtain that was Vlad Radmanovic.
Prior to being maimed by Pierce in the Finals, Radman did a pretty good job defensively versus a certain Denver SF during the WCFs.
My vote goes to Pierce. Much more efficient scorer, successfully modulated his game to accommodate Allen/KG and Rondo. Perhaps Carmelo will be given a similar opportunity someday, I just haven't seen it yet.
It's not really that meaningful IMO. Carmelo played much better against the 09 Lakers which was a major reason the team got Artest (with Pierce being the other major reason). Also Pierce had a far superior supporting cast in 08.
I haven't voted yet because I don't know. It's too close to call for me.
What do you guys think of this video? It compares Melo in the Olympics to Melo on the Knicks. It defends him and uses the "he needs better teammate" argument, but I have wondered myself why he looks much more clutch and effective in the Olympics.
I think if Pierce didn't get the good fortune of playing with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen this conversation would be viewed as a little silly. Winning championships doesn't appear to be as important to Carmelo as some other things. That's his right, but it does open him up to fan conversations like this.
I think Melo would definitely have won a championship or two with KG, Allen and Rondo. But, Pierce was no slouch. They have similar stats lines, even if you look at Per 36, the main difference is Melo's 4 PPG advantage. But Melo also needed 4 FGA per game to get there.
Pierce was a better defender as well.
Pierce was certainly no slouch. But if Pierce's career (which was actually pretty similar to Melo's before the KG/Allen trades) had played out the way it was going before the big trades, I don't think anyone would think Pierce was better. Rings do that for you.
Lots did. I did. Pierce seemed like more of a leader, less of a ball hog, better defender, won a few playoff rounds. I should repeat, way better defender. And definitely strong mentally, knowing game like Kobe when to strike, when to lay back when to go for the kill. Until later, it felt Melo was learning while Pierce had learned already.
And I think Melo was pretty formidable overall. Kobe and he would have worked out eventually IMO.
Pierce won playoff rounds playing in the East though. I still remember 2002 when the Celtics were in the conference finals playing the Nets and I couldn't believe how pathetic that conference was. In my opinion the Lakers beat better teams than those two in the first, second, and third round.
Lol it's not about the team drafting him. He was so impatient to get out of Denver that he couldn't wait to join the Knicks. As a result the Knicks gutted their young prospects and the Knicks/Melo has had several mellow to below average seasons as a result.
And? The Knicks still could have waited to sign him. It wasn't like "if ya'll don't trade for me I'm never coming!" situation with Carmelo.
The Knicks could have easily waited for the off-season and signed Carmelo out right. It was THEIR call to make that trade, no matter what Carmelo felt.
You're blaming Carmelo for the Knicks GM making a stupid move to gut their entire team for a guy they could have signed in the off-season just as easily.
I think the Celtics would not have won anything with Melo instead of Pierce. KG would probably have killed him anyway for his lazy arrogant scorer attitude.
Pierce probably wouldn't have made Denver win it all. But I don't think they would have been worse. I think pierce is one of those players that make a team better without putting up crazy numbers. Managing, leading, knowing when to turn it up. Actually thinking about it - Andre Miller and Pierce could have been a very intriguing combination.
Lol it's not about the team drafting him. He was so impatient to get out of Denver that he couldn't wait to join the Knicks. As a result the Knicks gutted their young prospects and the Knicks/Melo has had several mellow to below average seasons as a result.
And? The Knicks still could have waited to sign him. It wasn't like "if ya'll don't trade for me I'm never coming!" situation with Carmelo.
The Knicks could have easily waited for the off-season and signed Carmelo out right. It was THEIR call to make that trade, no matter what Carmelo felt.
You're blaming Carmelo for the Knicks GM making a stupid move to gut their entire team for a guy they could have signed in the off-season just as easily.
IIRC, it was Melo pushing for the immediate trade. I live out here in the NY area and it was a "big deal" back then. Of course it takes 2 to tango (3 including the Nuggets), but that is just one example of how a talented scorer/player like him just missed the big picture in the NBA.
There was no doubt he's wanted to live in the NY market with its glamour and such. The fact he couldn't wait 3 months ruined what could have been a pretty good Knicks team with him on it. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Lol it's not about the team drafting him. He was so impatient to get out of Denver that he couldn't wait to join the Knicks. As a result the Knicks gutted their young prospects and the Knicks/Melo has had several mellow to below average seasons as a result.
And? The Knicks still could have waited to sign him. It wasn't like "if ya'll don't trade for me I'm never coming!" situation with Carmelo.
The Knicks could have easily waited for the off-season and signed Carmelo out right. It was THEIR call to make that trade, no matter what Carmelo felt.
You're blaming Carmelo for the Knicks GM making a stupid move to gut their entire team for a guy they could have signed in the off-season just as easily.
IIRC, it was Melo pushing for the immediate trade. I live out here in the NY area and it was a "big deal" back then. Of course it takes 2 to tango (3 including the Nuggets), but that is just one example of how a talented scorer/player like him just missed the big picture in the NBA.
There was no doubt he's wanted to live in the NY market with its glamour and such. The fact he couldn't wait 3 months ruined what could have been a pretty good Knicks team with him on it.
Kobe's desire and push to be off the Lakers was 10 times worse than Carmelo's desire and push to be off the Nuggets AND Kobe was in the media throwing the organization under the bus in between times.
Did the Lakers trade him to the Pistons or the Bulls? no, they didn't. They stood pat despite all of that. Just like the Knicks could have when it comes to signing Carmelo that off-season.
Again, like I said, that was the Knicks idiotic move, there's been MANY times a player has wanted to leave a team or NOT wanted a team to re-sign them and didn't see the 'big picture' because the team had success afterwards or vice versa.
At the end of the day, the Knicks made the stupid decision to trade all their depth for Melo as opposed to just signing Melo in the off-season WITH their depth already in place.
No matter what the controversy was as to whether Melo wanted to go to the Nets or the Knicks, it was nothing, NOTHING compared to the [expletive]storm Kobe created the off-season right before we contended for a championship that season.
So no matter what Melo wanted, if he wanted it THAT bad, the Knicks could have just signed him in the off-season. But the reality is the Knicks didn't really care about winning as they did just bringing in Melo to the Garden so they could make money off him even if the team was terrible and that's precisely what they did. Their dumb decision, but winning was never their goal. Dolan couldn't care less about it.
I like Melo, and was hoping we'd trade for him back in the day to have a team of:
Fisher
Kobe
Melo
LO
Pau
But I have to hand it to Pierce, on that Celtics squad that beat us, he was a closer and killer. Who knows maybe Melo does the same on that kind of team, but he seems to never have that killer edge. Seems content to be really good but not great in the NBA.
As much as KG kicked Pierce's butt into gear, I think Kobe could have done the same for Melo. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35853 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
We are taking this way off topic.
I like Melo, and was hoping we'd trade for him back in the day to have a team of:
Fisher
Kobe
Melo
LO
Pau
But I have to hand it to Pierce, on that Celtics squad that beat us, he was a closer and killer. Who knows maybe Melo does the same on that kind of team, but he seems to never have that killer edge. Seems content to be really good but not great in the NBA.
As much as KG kicked Pierce's butt into gear, I think Kobe could have done the same for Melo.
That would have been a disaster defensively. Three of those players (Fisher, Carmelo, and Pau) were atrocious defenders at the time and Kobe would have been as well two seasons from then. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I like Melo, and was hoping we'd trade for him back in the day to have a team of:
Fisher
Kobe
Melo
LO
Pau
But I have to hand it to Pierce, on that Celtics squad that beat us, he was a closer and killer. Who knows maybe Melo does the same on that kind of team, but he seems to never have that killer edge. Seems content to be really good but not great in the NBA.
As much as KG kicked Pierce's butt into gear, I think Kobe could have done the same for Melo.
That would have been a disaster defensively. Three of those players (Fisher, Carmelo, and Pau) were atrocious defenders at the time and Kobe would have been as well two seasons from then.
Sure. But the alternative we had was worse all around with Nash/Howard. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
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