Single Most Imperiled Right(s) at Stake in 2016 Election?
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What is the Single Most Imperiled Right at Stake in 2016 Election?
Women's Rights?
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
Minority Rights?
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
LBGT Rights?
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Voting Rights?
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
2nd Amendment Rights?
18%
 18%  [ 6 ]
4th Amendment Rights?
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Religious Rights?
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Free Speech Rights?
6%
 6%  [ 2 ]
Equal Justice Rights?
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Adult entertainment Rights?
30%
 30%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 33

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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.


How does that even relate?

How about if people didn't need an ID to get a gun? Would that work?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:49 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.


There's no constitutional right to owning and driving a car.

And you do have to go through classes to concealed carry, at least in most places that I'm aware of.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.


How does that even relate?

How about if people didn't need an ID to get a gun? Would that work?


Hey, what a minute! What about transportation costs required in order to physically go and get that gun?
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:04 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.


How does that even relate?

How about if people didn't need an ID to get a gun? Would that work?


Hey, what a minute! What about transportation costs required in order to physically go and get that gun?


My question was pointing out that there are common sense things we could do but are sometimes limited because they are protected by Constitutional rights.

We know that you can go and buy guns at a gun show right now without having an ID.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't get the problem with needing an ID to vote. You need an ID for almost everything you do in life, what is wrong with needing one to vote?


Agreed. If you need an ID to board a plane, why shouldn't one need one to affect the fate of the entire country?


You two realize there are poor people in this country, right?


An ID costs $10


It's $29 just here in California, but that doesn't even get into legal fees due to complications mentioned above, transportation to obtain all correct the documents, or the cost of taking a day off from work. It's basically just a poll tax.


It isn't a poll tax, you need an ID for lots of other things, not just for voting. But if people are too cheap and lazy then I would prefer they not vote.


Is this the same argument gun control advocates make; why can't there be a test for people who want to own a gun? You need to pass a test for many things in this country. If you can't pass a test, I don't want you owning a gun.


That sounds reasonable. In Illinois you had to pass a gun safety course and then you would get a card allowing you to buy ammo and guns. Of course that was more than 20 years ago and things might have changed. If you were poor and couldn't get transportation to the gun store or had to take the day off of work to get that card then you were SOL. Why should voting be different?
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject:

- More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office. Many of them live in rural areas with no public transportation options.

- 1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office.

- Nearly one in five citizens over 65 — about 8 million — lacks a current, government-issued photo ID. people over 65 often give up their license and don't replace it with the state-issued ID that some states offer non-driving residents. People over 65 also are more likely to lack birth certificates because they were born before recording births was standard procedure.

- Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays.

- Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

- More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office. These voters may be particularly affected by the significant costs of the documentation required to obtain a photo ID. Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars.

- Percentage Black and State Driver’s License Offices, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. The map demonstrates that in the areas with the greatest concentrations of rural black voters, no state driver’s license offices are open more than two days per week.

-The map shows that in some areas in Texas with high concentrations of Hispanic voters, there are few or no ID-issuing offices.

- In Texas, for example, the cost of traveling to the nearest Department of Public Safety office, Texas’ version of the DMV, can be burdensome: Of the 254 counties in Texas, 78 do not have a permanent DPS office. In some communities along the Mexican border, the nearest DPS office is between 100 and 125 miles away.
That means a person without a driver’s license is going to have to rely on a family member or a friend to drive them to the DMV (or, in Texas, the DPS) in order to get a photo ID card. Now ask yourself this—would you want to drive your Uncle Bob two hours each way and then stand in line at the DMV for god-knows-how-long to get a photo ID?

-In Texas, in order to get a certified copy of your birth certificate, you need an ID card. And in order to get an ID card, you need a certified copy of your birth certificate. And round and round we go.

- If you’re trying to vote in a state where you live but weren’t born, simply trying to acquire a copy of your out-of-state birth certificate can be prohibitively expensive. one plaintiff testified that Louisiana wanted to charge him more than $80 for a copy of his birth certificate. Another plaintiff decided against obtaining his birth certificate from New Jersey, because that state wanted a $30 fee he didn’t have.

-

Challenge of Obtaining ID
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject:

Quote:
A dozen nuns and an unknown number of students were turned away from polls Tuesday in the first use of Indiana's stringent voter ID law since it was upheld last week by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The nuns, all residents of a retirement home at Saint Mary's Convent near Notre Dame University, were denied ballots by a fellow sister and poll worker because the women, in their 80s and 90s, did not have valid Indiana photo ID cards.


Geese, don't those nuns know that God requires an ID upon entry to heaven?

Quote:

Indiana requires voters who come to the polls show a photo ID issued by the state or the federal government. The law does not recognize out-of-state driver's licenses, a problem for college students. Angela Hiss, 19, of suburban Chicago, said she was allowed to register to vote several weeks ago but was turned away Tuesday from a polling site in South Bend, where she attends Notre Dame. Hiss said officials at a local motor vehicles office then would not accept her Illinois license as proof of identification for an Indiana license.


Education at Notre Dame must have really gone down the tubes since even college students can't figure out things like "You're out of state drivers license isn't sufficient to apply for an Indiana license".


Dang Irresponsible No-ID Folks




Quote:
Like many Philadelphians, I don’t drive — an out-of-state license wouldn’t cut it, anyhow — and have never joined the military, worked for the government or an “accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning,” or spent an ample amount of time in a state care facility. In other words, I don’t have any sort of acceptable identification to show a poll worker in the Commonwealth, and in order to vote as a Pennsylvanian this November I first had to go through the state Department of Transportation, known in these parts as PennDOT.

With that in mind, below is a log of the time and money I spent in my efforts to secure an official Pennsylvania ID:

Thursday, August 23

2:15pm Leave the office. The PennDOT Driver’s License Center closes at 4:15pm on weekdays, so I have to skip out of work early to get there with enough time. (It’s not open on Sundays, my only free day.) Total cost in work hours lost: about $42.97.
2:27pm Catch the Route 48 bus to Eighth and Market streets. Fare: $2 (With tokens a bus ride would only cost $1.55, but I’m out and there’s no place nearby in my Brewerytown neighborhood to restock.)
2:47pm Realize I accidentally got on the Route 7 bus, not the 48. Exit at 21st and Market. When I see that another 48 isn’t coming, I run underground and hop on a 36 Trolley to 13th and Market, where I stock up on tokens. I walk the remaining six blocks. Fare before the tokens purchase: $2
3:02pm Arrive at the PennDOT center at Eighth and Arch streets. Estimated wait time: 24 minutes.
4:06pm Number called. At the counter I find out that in addition to my birth certificate and social security card,* I need to show two proofs of my current mailing address, which I don’t have. Leave empty-handed.
4:12pm Catch the 48 bus to 29th and Girard. Fare: $1.55

*I had to have my parents mail both of these items to Philly, since I move often and prefer to keep them where I know they’re safe. Cost for priority shipping with the U.S. Postal Service: $12.95. (If I didn’t have a birth certificate and had been born in Pennsylvania, it would have cost me $10 for a new one.)

Friday, August 31

Thanks to Labor Day weekend and my cushy desk job, I don’t have work today. If I did, I would once again have to sacrifice three hours worth of wages, or about $42.97.
1:49pm Catch the 48 bus to Eighth and Market. Fare: $2 (I’ve used all my tokens since the week before.)
2:20pm Arrive at PennDOT. Given number C996. They are just rounding C890.
4:04pm Number called. Told to go to a different counter.
4:15pm Since this is my first Pennsylvania ID card, I get it for free. If it wasn’t, I’d have to pay a $13.50 fee. Ready take photo. Given number A052. They are rounding A260.
5:18pm Photo taken. Issued temporary state ID card. The real one should arrive in the mail within a few weeks. Catch the 48 bus to 29th and Girard. Fare: $2

Total cost: $65.47

Now, for some statistics: The minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25 an hour, or about $58 a day. The city of Philadelphia has a 26.7 percent poverty rate — bear in mind that the federal poverty level is $11,170 ($46.56 a day) for a single individual, $23,050 ($96.04 a day) for a family of four — on top of a 7.3 percent unemployment rate, according to the most recent census numbers. For many, obtaining an ID means sacrificing at least a day’s wages, probably more.






Quote:
Sutter, a former attorney who worked as a Philadelphia assistant district attorney for more than 10 years, is a registered voter who had tried for years to get photo ID.

Sutter, 61, doesn't drive and her only photo ID is from when she was a college student in 1978. Her Social Security card is under the name Tia Sutter. Her New York-state birth certificate is under the name Christine Sutter. She has been told that she cannot get a state issued ID because her names don't match. "I thought I knew my legal name," she said. "I'm not sure anymore." To change her name on her SS card, she was told she would need a court order, which would cost $400 and would take months.

"My roots and my future are all in Pennsylvania," Sutter said, choking up with emotion. "It's hurtful to me that this is now a question of 'papers please.' If your papers aren't in order, you can't vote."


Even a former attorney can't figure out these myriad of restrictions to getting ID



Quote:
Danny Rosa, 63, of West Chester is the son of a Puerto Rican woman and was born in New York. He doesn't know why his birth certificate identifies him as Danny Guerra, his grandmother's maiden name. But since he was a boy, he has always gone by the surname Rosa, the name of his stepfather who raised him. Rosa was the name on his night school diploma and it was the name on his Air Force honorable discharge certificate, which hangs on a wall in his living room.

A regular voter, he wanted to comply with the new law. So he spent the better part of a day gathering his paperwork and making two trips to the local PennDOT driver's license center where he waited about an hour each time. (He doesn't drive and had to get a ride.) "I showed him (the technician) my birth certificate and he told me my name's no good," Rosa said.

"I served in the service for four years," Rosa said. "I don't do it (vote) just for kicks. It means something special to me. I think it should be important for everybody."


You can go off and serve you country in the military, get an honorable discharge, but now can't vote because even though the government knows you by your real name, some paperwork filed 63 years ago by your spanish speaking grandmother doesn't match? Welcome to the New America Danny boy. This isn't your grandfathers Oldsmobile...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Joyce Block, 89, was born in Brooklyn, the daughter of vaudevillians. She married in the 1940s. She is Jewish and her marriage certificate is in Hebrew. Her Social Security card and her birth certificate are in her maiden name, "Joyce Altman." She never got a driver's license "because I felt everyone was safer without me on the road."

Since registering to vote when she was 21 - she voted for FDR - she has not missed an election. In 2010, ill and in the hospital, she was determined she was not going to miss the election and refused to vote by absentee ballot. "I wanted to make sure I voted," she said. "And I carried and carried on until they let me take a wheelchair and I voted."

When she heard about the new law, she had her granddaughter take her to the PennDOT center. She was told that because her Social Security card and birth certificate were in her maiden name, she could not get photo ID. She showed the technician her marriage certificate. He said he couldn't read Hebrew.


Why on earth does a 89 year old Jewish woman have a marriage certificate written in hebrew? That's blasphemy.



Quote:
Bea Bookler, 94, was born one year before the ratification of the 19th Amendment, guaranteeing American women the right to vote.

Today, she seldom leaves her room at the Devon Senior Living Center. She spends her days reading and watching television.The only times she goes out anymore are on rare and special occasions, when her daughter will take her out for lunch. Also, she goes out twice a year to the election polls, which are next door to her home. Bookler is unsteady and shakes during her testimony and says it's just too hard to get around anymore.
Over the years, she has lost her Social Security card and her birth and marriage certificates. While she could sign a form attesting that she has no identification and be granted a special ID used solely for voting, it would still take a trip to PennDOT, something she is physically unable to do.

"It's too hard," she said. "You can see I'm not exactly mobile. I get dizzy and shaky."

During her testimony, Bookler was asked why, if it's so hard, she bothers to go to the polls. The question seemed to confuse her. "I would never not vote," she said.

"How proud I am to live in a country is a real democracy. And anything that prevents people from voting is taking away our democracy.

"Democracy is only real if we all participate."



Friggin lazy old bat. Somebody needs to tell her to get off her arse and get a dang ID because she needs one to do everything she needs to do.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject:

I think what this shows is how much of a pain in the butt it is to do anything with government when ID is involved. When I moved up to Colorado a couple of years ago, one of the first things I needed to do was get a passport for a trip later that fall.

Big mistake. I should have done it in California before I moved.

Because I had recently moved, they wanted all kinds of identifying paperwork -- doctor bills, loan statements, etc going back 10 years. I had an original birth certificate, my Colorado state ID, my SS card, the whole nine yards, but it wasn't enough. Luckily I still had my California ID and a bunch of stuff so I took a half day and went down to the local office of the State Department, but still...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject:

^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


But if folks make the mistake of letting Trump slip into the White House and select a Supreme Court Justice or two, then plenty more folks will come to understand just how heinous these voter id laws truly are. Republicans have made it very clear, that the way they plan to combat shifting demographics is by growing the rolls of those ineligible to vote. With a compliant Supreme Court, democracy will be dead since elections will be decided by fewer and fewer people. There are many powerful people who still believe in the voting restrictiveness in place in this countries 1st century. That the wealthy and land owners are really the only ones who should be selecting government.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
- More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office. Many of them live in rural areas with no public transportation options.

- 1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office.

- Nearly one in five citizens over 65 — about 8 million — lacks a current, government-issued photo ID. people over 65 often give up their license and don't replace it with the state-issued ID that some states offer non-driving residents. People over 65 also are more likely to lack birth certificates because they were born before recording births was standard procedure.

- Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays.

- Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

- More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office. These voters may be particularly affected by the significant costs of the documentation required to obtain a photo ID. Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars.

- Percentage Black and State Driver’s License Offices, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. The map demonstrates that in the areas with the greatest concentrations of rural black voters, no state driver’s license offices are open more than two days per week.

-The map shows that in some areas in Texas with high concentrations of Hispanic voters, there are few or no ID-issuing offices.

- In Texas, for example, the cost of traveling to the nearest Department of Public Safety office, Texas’ version of the DMV, can be burdensome: Of the 254 counties in Texas, 78 do not have a permanent DPS office. In some communities along the Mexican border, the nearest DPS office is between 100 and 125 miles away.
That means a person without a driver’s license is going to have to rely on a family member or a friend to drive them to the DMV (or, in Texas, the DPS) in order to get a photo ID card. Now ask yourself this—would you want to drive your Uncle Bob two hours each way and then stand in line at the DMV for god-knows-how-long to get a photo ID?

-In Texas, in order to get a certified copy of your birth certificate, you need an ID card. And in order to get an ID card, you need a certified copy of your birth certificate. And round and round we go.

- If you’re trying to vote in a state where you live but weren’t born, simply trying to acquire a copy of your out-of-state birth certificate can be prohibitively expensive. one plaintiff testified that Louisiana wanted to charge him more than $80 for a copy of his birth certificate. Another plaintiff decided against obtaining his birth certificate from New Jersey, because that state wanted a $30 fee he didn’t have.

-

Challenge of Obtaining ID


Maybe those things would be a bigger hindrance if there was only one election, and people were told they had a week to get an ID.

But there are elections all the time, and people have years to get an ID at any time.

Also, how do these people vote if they can't get anywhere?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:


- Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays.

Challenge of Obtaining ID


Holy crap that is insane
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


Maybe we shouldn't be arguing about getting IDs, but more about how getting one shouldn't be crazy weird.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


Maybe we shouldn't be arguing about getting IDs, but more about how getting one shouldn't be crazy weird.

Identification Reform?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


Maybe we shouldn't be arguing about getting IDs, but more about how getting one shouldn't be crazy weird.


Yep. Agreed. But that would defeat the point of these laws, which are crystal clear in their intentions. The crafters know EXACTLY who they're disenfranchising with these laws. That's why they are written with the precise restrictions in place that they are. It's not a mistake. They are getting their desired result. It's also why they've taken care to shut down specific Licensing offices, to make it as difficult as possible for their targets to comply.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


Maybe we shouldn't be arguing about getting IDs, but more about how getting one shouldn't be crazy weird.

Identification Reform?


That's how we got here. The Real ID Act of 2005.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
^^^^^ Yeah, it's obvious that most folks think these Voter ID laws are more benign than they are. They don't seem to understand that many of these laws were purposely written to be very restrictive and make it as hard as possible to obtain proper identification, knowing that less savvy folks would just give up under all the senseless hoops they try to make them jump through. The crafters of these laws knew good and well that many people would predictable assume that getting an ID now is as easy as it was when they got theirs. The states that require an id to get a birth certificate,and a birth certificate to get an id - are a real crack up.


But if folks make the mistake of letting Trump slip into the White House and select a Supreme Court Justice or two, then plenty more folks will come to understand just how heinous these voter id laws truly are. Republicans have made it very clear, that the way they plan to combat shifting demographics is by growing the rolls of those ineligible to vote. With a compliant Supreme Court, democracy will be dead since elections will be decided by fewer and fewer people. There are many powerful people who still believe in the voting restrictiveness in place in this countries 1st century. That the wealthy and land owners are really the only ones who should be selecting government.


So you're opposed to IDs in general?

Or you're opposed to IDs but only because they are a pain?

If it's the latter, then we may as well abolish ID requirements for anything at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject:

Social Security is a government mandated program that every worker is required to participate in. When enrolled, the government assigns a citizen an individual ID number and provides them with a no fee membership card.


Medicare and Medicaid are government programs. When enrolled, the government assigns a citizen an individual ID number and provides them with a no fee membership card.


Voting is a right. When registering, the government assigns a citizen a voter ID with no enrollment fee. If the government desires anything in addition to that Voter ID card, then it should furnish the card it desires with no membership fee just as it does when issuing a Social Security card, A Medicare/Medicaid card, and a Voter ID card. Someone should not have to jump through any additional hoops to get any of those government provided pieces of identification.

People lose their 'papers all the time'. If someone arrives at a polling place without identification, then you simply sit them down at a kiosk and have them answer questions asked of them as they input their information. The government already routinely does this when a citizen desires access to a myriad of government programs. When you log onto the Social Security website to check your earnings records, it syncs up with a Consumer Credit reporting agency and presents you with a series of question that relate specifically to your consumer profile that presumably only you should know the answers to. Once verified, you are able to log onto you specific information profile. The government already utilizes this identification mechanism. Having a kiosk to do it at a voting site should be no issue what so ever. In 2016, it's exceedingly easy to satisfactorily identify Americans.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Do you really think there are no fees involved with getting social security or Medicare? There are, my mom paid for years into social security and pays monthly out of her social security for Medicare.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Do you really think there are no fees involved with getting social security or Medicare? There are, my mom paid for years into social security and pays monthly out of her social security for Medicare.


There are no fees involved with getting a Medicare card, nor a Social Security Card. If the government also desires to mandate an ID card for voting, there should be no fees involved with getting that card either. Driving is a privilege, so I've no problems with assessing fees for that privilege. But if the government decides to require a specific identification for access to the right to vote, then they need to provide that required identification free of charge just as they do with Social Security and Medicare cards. The easiest way to do this would be to simply include a photo on the Voter ID cards they already furnish for free. Even 3rd world nations and Banana Republics provide this simple piece of identification.


Sample Voter ID Card #1


Sample Voter ID #2

Sample Voter ID Card #3
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
In mid-September, the Georgia State Conference of the NAACP, Asian Americans Advancing Justice and the Georgia Coalition for the People’s Agenda sued Kemp’s office over a policy that required information on voter-registration applications to exactly match data in state driver’s license or Social Security records. A simple clerical error, such as a misplaced hyphen or transposed letters or numbers, could trigger a mismatch and result in an application being rejected. Voters would have 40 days to correct the discrepancies but would not be told specifically what needed to be fixed.

The lawsuit noted that out of 34,874 people whose applications were canceled between July 2013 and July 2016, 64 percent were black, compared with 14 percent who were white.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Donald Trump’s unfounded allegations of voter fraud are alarming voting rights activists who fear broader ballot access crackdowns — and his remarks are also emboldening groups that champion more stringent voting requirements.

The president-elect took to Twitter on Sunday to baselessly tee off on “serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California,” and to misleadingly assert without evidence that he “won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”

Independent election experts say those claims are false, and advocates for expanded voting access fear that such comments will further motivate some conservatives to push for more barriers to the ballot.

“The false notion that voter fraud is something that we are contending with in our country is an invitation for lawmakers to act,” warned Kristen Clarke, president and executive director of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, a nonprofit organization that is a leader of the nonpartisan Election Protection coalition, which includes several labor unions aligned with Democrats.

In addition to taking the White House and expanding control of Capitol Hill, Republicans racked up bigger majorities in state legislatures and took on new governorships on Nov. 8, giving some conservative groups and lawmakers that want to push for stricter voting requirements more avenues for doing so. In New Hampshire, for example, incoming Republican Gov. Chris Sununu, who took over from Democratic Gov. Maggie Hassan, has already said he wants to get rid of Election Day registration.

Activists and voting rights experts fear that Trump has motivated anti-voter fraud groups to recommit to legislative pushes on the issue. It’s a commitment that these experts say is misplaced, arguing that there are few real instances of fraud.

“At the state level, the worries are, when the president-elect is claiming massive voter fraud, people who are unscrupulously seeking to push politically motivated restrictions will jump on those statements, and use them to justify efforts to roll back voting rights even further,”

There was already a major push beginning in 2011 to enact more stringent voter ID laws by Republican-controlled statehouses across the country. Some of those efforts were quashed in court. But Democrats and some nonpartisan voting experts say that in states like North Carolina, where early voting access was curtailed and problems at polling sites continued through Election Day, minority communities were disproportionately affected, bolstering Trump’s lead in the state.


The Coming Tide
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject:

Feel free to post this in the political thread.
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