Nick Young is finally...catch and shooting!?
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Man I used to get attacked for defending Young around here , so I'm really happy to see him turn it around. It was inexplicable how he could drop so far from his last year under MDA. I knew he was capable of playing like this. He did it for an entire season, people just forgot. He has a real coach now.


I hear you but Nick is no innocent bystander here. The questions surrounding Nick were never in regards to his talent or basketball abilities, IMO. But you are correct that a "real coach" is currently making all the difference in terms of bringing out the better part of Nick.


Nick did great MDA and is doing great with Luke. What was different the last 2 years?

Maybe he tried to take over games too much? Didn't have Clarkson there to
remind him to kiss the coaches ass while commenting? Didn't contribute to the garbage cans enough during camp?
We'll never know.


I've always said what he lacked was discipline, and the previous coaching regime wasn't giving it to him. Byron was a hands-off "leader". He'd say things like "Do better or you can sit on the bench". What is a player learning from that?

Young is like a kid with ADD. You have to be very clear and specific what you expect from him, or he'll quickly get out of control. He needs to be managed on a regular basis. It may sound exhausting but that's partly what a coaching staff's job is. (something MDA didn't get enough credit for)

The Nick Young we're seeing now is the one that earned his current contract. This is how he played. Scrappy defense, limited ball handling, timely shooting, even setting the occasional screen here and there. I hope he can keep this up.


If he can keep Swaggy P locked up and far from the team I agree with you. If he maintains his focus he can be a solid player for the Lakers this season.

My concern with Young is when training camp ends and the focus slips a bit. When more free time is available and the opportunities to be a TMZ sensation become more likely.

Not trying to be a negative Nancy but Young has earned his knucklehead reputation for a reason. Relying on him for the next 7 months to avoid those moments is a big risk IMO.

I can try to be cautiously optimistic. Just do not share the sentiment some of you have adopted that Young has suddenly become the mature professional we wish he could be.


I agree he earned this reputation, so I understand people's skepticism. I only ask that if he does have a slip, we keep it in perspective. For example, for all the good he's done in the last 2 games, I'm willing to let that little intentional foul go when he thought he was fouled from behind. It was a brief emotional outburst. Kobe did this all the time (Young is no Kobe yadda yadda it's still a mental lapse).

If he's playing like this all season and then he's seen leaving a club with a few playboy bunnies at all-star weekend, so be it. On the other hand, if he's in the tabloids for something more severe, then we can discuss cutting him at that time. I just don't want people to be too quick to judge him because of reputation. Keep it in perspective. If anything else, he's at least raising his trade value based on his play.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:30 pm    Post subject:

sonic the laker wrote:


Also, if a player makes a mistake on the floor, it's grounds for automatic punishment. It was a minor mistake, in what has been an impressive preseason for Nick. The proof is in the play, and Walton himself has verified it to reporters. So, if Walton's way of connecting with players is garnering positive results, whats the problem?

You don't punish a player for making a mistake - players make mistakes all the time.
You bench a player like Swaggy when he does something that is blatantly stupid.
There's a difference between making a mistake, and a guy that has a history of bonehead stupidity indulging that stupidity in a game.
You take a guy like Swaggy, and you tell him "you play smart, you stay on the court. You do something blatantly stupid, I'm putting someone in the game that can play smart." Then you back it up.
Even a bonehead will learn that lesson pretty quick.

What he did the other night wasn't a mistake. He intentionally fouled a guy just so he could stop the play and get a chance to yell at the referee.

A mistake was when Nick took that running 3ptr from 6 feet beyond the line, in transition, falling to his left, with only 4 seconds run off the clock. You generally let him play through that and call him on a dumb shot in a timeout, or during film review.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Judah wrote:
P.K. wrote:
fdavid32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I have to give Swaggy credit, but he's stepping it up.

I also agree, why not try Swaggy at starting SG or bring him off the bench as the first SG over Lou, start JC?


Ok Byron, we have something that is working, we have to tinker with it so that it breaks.


What the heck?


The real swaggy P will show up sometime in the season, I don't buy into this new swaggy p look. Once a clown, always a clown. Yes, Lakers should start him, give him all the 3 point looks he can handle and trade his arse for some value.

No doubt.
But, supposedly Luke had a talk with him and told him no more stupidity.
If Luke backs this up by benching Young everytime he does something stupid, Young will quickly learn there's a penalty for acting stupid. I'd suspect you'd cure him of it in the first 20 games of the season.
And he should have benched immediately last night after that Moz push/Nick fouled just so he could complain to the ref.

Oh please. You're so blinded by your stark bitterness that, amazingly, you lack the insight to even realize that this kind of cold, unnecessarily harsh attitude and short leash crap that you're proposing to Luke is the very reason why Byron failed so horribly in two years to get any production from him. He treated Swag (and every single player he didn't like, really) like a child.

Luke is actually treating him like a person. That's the difference. Luke is making no complaints about his easygoing, fun-loving personality because he realizes it's nothing to bemoan. Wisdom demands you to want him to keep that attitude because that's when he's at his best. He's actually committed on both ends. It was ironic how Billy Mac and Stu were giving him credit for his defense and then, right on cue, he blocked a shot....on CJ MCCOLLUM of all people.

Byron, the self-proclaimed defensive maestro, could never figure out how to get this kind of play out of Nick in two full seasons. Great coaches know how to connect with their players. They know how to reach them. You do it by talking to them, not at them. Always being uptight, harsh, and making bold threats to try to scare players into submission doesn't work. That's not how you control a locker room. It's how you lose one. It doesn't make your players buy in. It makes them tune you out. Coaching has so much more to it than being a guru at x's and o's. There's a character/personality aspect to it that's just as important as the x's and o's. Great coaches don't ignore that. It's something that they recognize and take seriously. Byron didn't, and well....yeah. Look where it got him. Worst coaching record in the history of the league and an irreversibly bad reputation. A stink that he'll never be able to get rid of because no one will ever off him another coaching job in the NBA.

It's amazing that you could sit through two years of watching him employ the self-destructive approach you're proposing things and can still be as radically oblivious to it as he was.

Quote:
But, supposedly Luke had a talk with him and told him no more stupidity.

^Please provide a link to back this up in the exaggerated way you're trying to spin it. Just by way of common sense, the way you're trying to spin it is intentionally inaccurate since that was Byron's approach for the last two years, yet he never got this kind of production out of Nick. A big reason why he's thriving under Luke is because Luke isn't doing things that way.
Quote:
And he should have benched immediately last night after that Moz push/Nick fouled just so he could complain to the ref.

Seriously? No, seriously? Do you know why you realized that Mozgov ran into him and he didn't? BECAUSE YOU WERE WATCHING AND HAD FULL VIEW OF THE PLAY. He didn't. He was taking the shot and Mozgov ran into him from behind. Unless you have eyes in the back of your head, you would've had no way of knowing that it was your own teammate that hit you any more than he did. It was somewhat boneheaded on Mozgov's part, a strange play that we don't see that often. I mean, players usually don't expect their own teammates to foul them. It was no big deal. Once one of his teammates told him Mozgov was the one that hit him he just laughed it off and let it go. Again, no big deal. So what in the world was Luke supposed to bench him for exactly? Camera didn't show, but if anything I'm sure Luke and the coaches probably got a kick out of it, too. It was funny. You do know it's okay sometimes to just laugh at things, right? Don't worry, it won't cause your face to explode or make your hair fall out.

1. Uhm...the announcers said words to that effect (paraphrased) during the game the other night.

2. Moz ran into him from behind. Then Nick almost immediately fouled and opposing player, and immediately after that turned to the ref and started complaining about a supposed foul - that wasn't actually a foul.

that's 2 stupid, very very stupid, dumb things in a row. There is no was to suger coat that and make it look like anything other then stupid.

I don't know where you learned to play basketball, but most coaches would immediately bench a player that does a "payback" foul for absolutely no reason and then compounds it by (bleep) at the referee - about a foul that wasn't.
BTW: Nick didn't even try to disguise what he did...He immediately fouled that guy because he didn't get a call...not because he was making a play on the ball...because he didn't get a call
that is incredibly stupid.

1. No offense but you're not exactly an unbiased source, so I don't trust your recollection of what they said or how they said it for a second.

2. Again, Nick clearly didn't know that Mozgov was the one that hit him because Mozgov was behind him. You're acting like he knew it was Mozgov and was complaining to the refs anyway. He didn't. Honest mistake. I've seen players make that mistake a number of times. As a coach you don't overreact to it. Maybe you sort of roll your eyes at it, but it's not even close to being something worth benching a player over, especially when they're having a terrific game, their confidence is high, and they've been doing everything you've asked of them since the season started. But you'd rather ignore all of those things and actually go as far as yanking him from the game over one mental lapse? That's absurd beyond comprehension. Again, that kind of stuff is how coaches lose their teams quickly, and easily. It's not discipline. It's just an uptight, panicky overreaction.

Players give it their all for a coach when they genuinely believe that the coach has their back, not when they're just standing there with some stern look with their arms folded, waiting for them to mess up so they can yank them out of the game to "send a message." Coaches who take that approach should stick to coaching high school ball, maybe even middle school.

And please save your "most coaches would bench a player for doing what Nick did" nonsense because that's not accurate either. Just more exaggeration on your part, unfortunately. Players commit fouls out of frustration fairly often in the NBA if they feel like the official missed a blatant call on the other end. Even Wade did it in the ASG a few years back against Kobe. That's how he got the broken nose and had to wear the face mask. It happens. You say "most coaches" but it sounds like you're describing high school, not the NBA. NBA coaches typically don't overreact to things like that. Well, at least not the good ones. And I'm thankful that Luke is nothing like the way you're advocating:

“Believe it or not, going back to Coach Kerr from Luke, it was different....I shoot a bad shot, I’m hearing from coach Kerr. I shoot a bad one with Luke, he might tell me when I come to the sideline like, “Ay, we can get a better one.”" - Draymond Green

^Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the kind of coach we have, so you might as well just get used to it.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject:

all of these criticisms of nick are just soooo ridiculous. the core of the issue is that he cheated on his gf, got caught, and now there are a lot of very vocal fans that are scrutinizing his every move. get him off the team, etc. this is just shill politics.

all his on court "mistakes" are so minor, everyone does it.

the only time he has really played badly during his career is during the tank. and honestly, it wasn't that bad. everyone played badly. go back and look. this board criticized everyone in the org top to bottom during the tank, past legends included. nobody was left out. nance and jc have come away relatively unscathed. nick seems to be getting the worst of it...his personality is like a magnet for sjw stuff.

now the tank is over, and magically nick is playing well again. but people just can't let it go yet. by december i'm hoping we will be past all this.
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ch3cky0selff00
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:36 pm    Post subject:

I'm just glad people are (albeit slowly) coming around to Nick Young. I've been saying he'll have a good season all off-season. I'm glad he's proving me right lol.

He didn't even play that bad last few seasons. ANYBODY under those circumstances would be playing poorly and then throw in a terrible offense and that's a recipe for disaster.

Nick is who he is.. and Luke is telling him to go out there and be himself while also challenging him on defense because Nick has the tools to be a good defender.

Let's not forget that Nick Young is shooting 60% on 3 pointers. But yeah, no, let's cut him. He clearly is a bad influence on younger players like Jordan Clarkson who he's seemingly very close with.

I believe the Lakers will eventually trade Lou Williams and keep Nick Young. I don't see Young as the starter but I see him as an important person off the bench.

I'm conflicted about the shooting guard position though. I think having Calderon, Clarkson, and Young all off the bench (all good shooters) is a major, major weapon off the bench.

BUT Clarkson is playing so well and the starting unit isn't playing so hot outside of D'Angelo Russell lol.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject:

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I'm just glad people are (albeit slowly) coming around to Nick Young. I've been saying he'll have a good season all off-season. I'm glad he's proving me right lol.

He didn't even play that bad last few seasons. ANYBODY under those circumstances would be playing poorly and then throw in a terrible offense and that's a recipe for disaster.

Nick is who he is.. and Luke is telling him to go out there and be himself while also challenging him on defense because Nick has the tools to be a good defender.

Let's not forget that Nick Young is shooting 60% on 3 pointers. But yeah, no, let's cut him. He clearly is a bad influence on younger players like Jordan Clarkson who he's seemingly very close with.

I believe the Lakers will eventually trade Lou Williams and keep Nick Young. I don't see Young as the starter but I see him as an important person off the bench.

I'm conflicted about the shooting guard position though. I think having Calderon, Clarkson, and Young all off the bench (all good shooters) is a major, major weapon off the bench.

BUT Clarkson is playing so well and the starting unit isn't playing so hot outside of D'Angelo Russell lol.

keep saying it, not enough people seeing it this way.

i've noticed that this board or laker fans i guess react pretty negatively towards players that like to shoot. they want more lebron, less kobe in the players. i don't get this in real life from hardcore fans, but on the internet it is almost the opposite (gee i wunder why).

look at the two guys people are really aching to trade: nick and lou. why? they are selfish, they don't play team ball, etc. really, all it is is that they are shooters who, unlike the other people, can make their shots a lot more. so...that's what they do.
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Lakerpark
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject:

I would rather have NYoung playing than Lou Williams.

People say that Nick won't change. Metta changed from a thug into an model citizen and he was probably worse off...clinically crazy...So why can't people believe that Nick can change into a serious and productive player?

I think under the circumstances of last season, most people would regress.
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Tark the Shark
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:42 am    Post subject:

Ingram's inconsistent pre-season- He's young and has a future ahead of him. You can't judge him by a few pre-season games.

Young's good pre-season - He's corrected 9 years of boneheadedness and below average to average play in a few pre-season games.

^Metta in his prime was always a better player than Young who is now over 30 and on the decline. Metta was crazy but Young is plain dumb. Like I've said before, you can't fix stupid and Young is about as stupid as they come.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Another good game by Young. Makes AB pointless.


Batguano wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Afrosho wrote:
Tark the Shark wrote:
Typical LG overreacting. Judging Young on 3 preseason games when he has 576 regular season games over 9 seasons to look back at.

I don't see any overreaction. Nobody is really emerging in the roster as our undisputed starting SG, so the conversation is open.
You talk about Young's career, but the Nick we had under MDA for example can definitely start in this team.
Our starting unit hasn't been very convincing so far, and part of it, I think, is its lack of perimeter defense and athleticism. Young does bring those two things.


Someone just said Nick Young makes Anthony Brown "pointless".

NY is 31 years old and a chucker/scorer. AB is 24 years old and in his 2nd season. Yes. Overreaction sounds about right.


If AB can't produce (and he's an old 2nd year player, and the expectation was that he'd produce right away), and Young is playing well, why should the coaching staff eschew Young for the less productive AB?


So then you agree it makes AB redundant...?


At some point, actual production trumps 'potential.' AB has shown very little production, a reason why Swaggy P, he of DLO-beef fame, is getting playing time.

If anything, Luke has been true to his word that he will give everyone a clean slate and fair chance. AB hasn't produced, end of story.


Basing anything on 3 preseason games (especially when it comes to a 2nd year player) is an overreaction. Plane and simple. No one is arguing he should play over Young. It's this stunted attitude LG takes whenever one player has a decent game it automatically makes another player on the team "redundant" or trade fodder for "precious 2nd round picks".


I hope AB the best of luck.
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