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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25549
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: Hollywood Hoops Podcast: Gary Payton Says Lakers Would have Won if Malone was Healthy |
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Hey all,
I had the chance to interview Gary Payton - as did my partner Josh Martin - The Glove in two parts on the Hollywood Hoops Podcast
I also ask him, did he regret teaching Kobe those defensive moves?
https://soundcloud.com/eric-pincus/hollywood-hoops-gary-payton-3-on-3-lakers-clippers-sonics-warriors
We also touch on Seattle, Oakland, the Warriors, Clippers, and the 3-on-3 basketball tournament he's helping to bring to the Olympics.
Thanks,
Eric
PS - I have 4 tickets available for sale for the season opener, hit me with a PM if interested - they're in section 108 row 15. _________________ Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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Startrout Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 2144
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Yep, there's no question in my mind that Malone's freak injury cost us the title. |
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ReaListik Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 6568
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Of course. Malone had rarely been hurt, if ever, before that injury. _________________ "We are the goodest." - Shaq ESPN interview |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39532
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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duh |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22852 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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That's just silly. Put down the homer goggles. I've always thought this idea was ridiculous and Laker fans should let get go. We got waxed. It wasn't a 4-3 series, not even 4-2. It was a 4-1 domination and it took a Kobe buzzer beater for the game we won. To think 41 yr old Malone was going to swing 3 games? Then Shaq and Kobe should be ashamed of themselves. Despite his game winner, that was the worst Kobe had ever performed in the finals. No amount of Malone would have helped him shoot straight in that series. Keep dreaming man, we lost that one.
Even if the Lakers only landed Gary Payton in free agency, and no Malone. The Lakers would have still been the favorites. You, me, everybody would still bet the Lakers against the Pistons. Nobody saw what happened coming. The Malone injury is a pretty weak excuse. We would have been heavy favorites even if he had never signed. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38789
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Malone would've made the series a lot more competitive than 4-1 thats for sure....I remember watching that series and pretty much knew they were doomed. There was just the inevitable feeling that the Pistons would keep it close and just put on the pressure in the 4th quarter to win the game. |
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25549
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Malone and Ho Grant absent - Slava/Cook getting the PF minutes - come on now _________________ Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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Daphanabe Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2768
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:21 am Post subject: |
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There is no way we lose that series with Malone healthy. So many 'What-Ifs' if that had happened.
Still happy with the way it actually turned out, even if losing then was painful. I thoroughly enjoyed rebuilding around Kobe, those insane scoring years, then the Kobe-Gasol-Odom peak. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22852 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:27 am Post subject: |
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emplay wrote: | Malone and Ho Grant absent - Slava/Cook getting the PF minutes - come on now |
10-27
14-27
4-13
8-25
7-21
You know what that is? It wasn't about Malone. You, me, the whole NBA would still take Kobe/Shaq/Slava over the Pistons. You're kidding yourself if you're saying you wouldn't. Nobody saw it coming. The way the Pistons came together. We all thought it was just another anti-climatic finals like the Pacers, Sixers and the Nets. But they played well and they locked the Mamba up. C'mon now, give the Pistons credit. This Malone thing is weak, weak, weak. If that's the case Kobe and Shaq, and the best coach in basketball should trade paychecks with Malone. We needed more than Malone, like the Mamba to be the Mamba, and he just wasn't. He was really funky that finals because of his free agency coming up. You can't talk about this finals and pin it on Malone and not talk about the elephant in the room which was Kobe's terrible play, his desire to no longer be with Shaq, and consequently.. the Shaq trade. These are all factors. That was not a cohesive team. Malone was not going to swing 3 games for that team. Forget about it. |
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kobe_4_mvp Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 3798
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:43 am Post subject: |
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gp was a disgrace that series. one of the worst lakers finals performances. we win with malone healthy AND without billups running circles around payton for 5 games. |
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lakurluv Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 2529
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: |
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No doubt about that... Although their was some tension in the Locker room because they three-peat players didn't like how the new guys came in and stole their thunder and wanted a chance to run their offense that they had won with for three years straight.
But a healthy Karl would have made all of the the difference. |
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Worthy42 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004 Posts: 19952
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Billups was untouchable that series. Dude got a whistle in his favor if he picked his nose. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:09 am Post subject: |
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am I the only one that felt like GP was screaming his responses during the interview? |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I think the season's challenges cost us more than anything...Kobe missed about 20 games....same for Shaq. Karl missed 40. Kobe's problem in Colorado....the Kobe-Shaq feud......all that weight finally broke the team down by the time the Finals arrived....and once Detroit saw they could beat us, their confidence skyrocketed as a young hungry team. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22852 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Kobe is so great that I think we often forget when he was bad, and I think Laker fans who believe Lakers would have won with Karl Malone have selective amnesia. My point is we needed way more than Malone, we needed Kobe. You don't win a championship without Kobe. Folks, despite game 2, Kobe was MIA!!! An older Shaq in 2006, Gary Payton and Dwayne Wade beat those same Pistons in 2006 ECF and then went on to win the finals. You know why? Dwayne Wade shot 62% against the Pistons. Say what you will about the favoritism he received from the refs that year, but the point is, whatever it was.. Miami had their MJ. We did not have our MJ in the finals, Kobe shot 38%. Malone wasn't going to fix that. We din't lose because of Malone. Nobody in the Laker organization or on that roster is going to say this. The easier to swallow narrative is Karl Malone. |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I think it's a very reasonable perspective, that the Lakers were plenty strong enough to win it all that season with a healthy Karl Malone. Of course, we'll never know. |
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4OnTheFloor Star Player
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 1148
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | Kobe is so great that I think we often forget when he was bad, and I think Laker fans who believe Lakers would have won with Karl Malone have selective amnesia. My point is we needed way more than Malone, we needed Kobe. You don't win a championship without Kobe. Folks, despite game 2, Kobe was MIA!!! An older Shaq in 2006, Gary Payton and Dwayne Wade beat those same Pistons in 2006 ECF and then went on to win the finals. You know why? Dwayne Wade shot 62% against the Pistons. Say what you will about the favoritism he received from the refs that year, but the point is, whatever it was.. Miami had their MJ. We did not have our MJ in the finals, Kobe shot 38%. Malone wasn't going to fix that. We din't lose because of Malone. Nobody in the Laker organization or on that roster is going to say this. The easier to swallow narrative is Karl Malone. |
Dude your wrong. No one was taking Kobe-Shaq & Slava over that Pistons team. You can come up with all the stats you want & yes Kobe played bad but the series would of been a lot closer with Malone. |
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25549
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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You can have three of the best tires ever made but if the fourth is flat... _________________ Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
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With a healthy Malone we win that series |
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allNet Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 159
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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We would've won if Malone was healthy or if we kept Robert Horry. |
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SGVL1 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 845
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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while Malone wouldn't have swayed 3 games, Phil in one of his books spoke of the absence of he and Horace Grant and not being able to contain Rasheed and Ben. There was also a portion where he spoke about not keeping Janero PArgo on the playoff roster to run with Billups and L Hunter. The Lakers had a great strategy in game 4 by feeding Shaq and he destroyed Ben, but I think he at that point in his career ran out of steam, especially on the defensive end. Plus there was a horrific offensive rebound on a missed FT in game 4 that sealed the deal. And hate to be THAT FAN but the officiating in that series was sketchy at best |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | That's just silly. Put down the homer goggles. I've always thought this idea was ridiculous and Laker fans should let get go. We got waxed. It wasn't a 4-3 series, not even 4-2. It was a 4-1 domination and it took a Kobe buzzer beater for the game we won. To think 41 yr old Malone was going to swing 3 games? Then Shaq and Kobe should be ashamed of themselves. Despite his game winner, that was the worst Kobe had ever performed in the finals. No amount of Malone would have helped him shoot straight in that series. Keep dreaming man, we lost that one.
Even if the Lakers only landed Gary Payton in free agency, and no Malone. The Lakers would have still been the favorites. You, me, everybody would still bet the Lakers against the Pistons. Nobody saw what happened coming. The Malone injury is a pretty weak excuse. We would have been heavy favorites even if he had never signed. |
People will be arguing this one as long as they care about the NBA. I can see the case for either side of the woulda coulda shoulda argument on this one. |
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mde24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 755
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Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: |
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This was my response when this article first came out, no responses yet. I thought I would be disrespectful to Emplay's work. This is the perfect response to Payton's statement. It's just one more reason to hate on the "Mail it in Man". All those years of perfect "SuperMan" health only to breakdown on the Lakers road to a Championship, leading to a road to ruin. The end of a Dynasty. Thanks Karl. Duh! _________________ "If you see me in a fight with a bear, prey for the bear". Ive always loved that quote. Thats "mamba mentality" we don't quit, we don't cower, we don't run. We endure and conquer. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01 Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001 Posts: 1703
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | Kobe is so great that I think we often forget when he was bad, and I think Laker fans who believe Lakers would have won with Karl Malone have selective amnesia. My point is we needed way more than Malone, we needed Kobe. You don't win a championship without Kobe. Folks, despite game 2, Kobe was MIA!!! An older Shaq in 2006, Gary Payton and Dwayne Wade beat those same Pistons in 2006 ECF and then went on to win the finals. You know why? Dwayne Wade shot 62% against the Pistons. Say what you will about the favoritism he received from the refs that year, but the point is, whatever it was.. Miami had their MJ. We did not have our MJ in the finals, Kobe shot 38%. Malone wasn't going to fix that. We din't lose because of Malone. Nobody in the Laker organization or on that roster is going to say this. The easier to swallow narrative is Karl Malone. |
The Heat had an actual NBA basketball roster. The Lakers had Kobe, Shaq, a worn out 35-year old Payton from playing ~3,500 total minutes that year, and Fisher. The next best player was Devean(Fox was done). Slava was left open at times and couldn't defend or rebound. He got spot minutes and contributed in those but was never meant to be a full time player.
Take Malone's 30 points out of Game 4 of the first round, and its 2-2 instead of 3-1. Take his defense out of the equation against the Spurs and Duncan easily wins it for them in 5. KG went off on Malone, but Medvedenko wouldn't have gotten us to the Finals as a starter. Shaq and Wade weren't enough to beat Detroit until they had a complete team in Miami, either.
Pistons may have won anyway, but the games where Malone sat weren't close. The games where he played hurt were roughly within 8 points in crunch time, 20-30 point leads in the 4th when he sat. |
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marga86 Star Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2008 Posts: 3442
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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | That's just silly. Put down the homer goggles. I've always thought this idea was ridiculous and Laker fans should let get go. We got waxed. It wasn't a 4-3 series, not even 4-2. It was a 4-1 domination and it took a Kobe buzzer beater for the game we won. To think 41 yr old Malone was going to swing 3 games? Then Shaq and Kobe should be ashamed of themselves. Despite his game winner, that was the worst Kobe had ever performed in the finals. No amount of Malone would have helped him shoot straight in that series. Keep dreaming man, we lost that one.
Even if the Lakers only landed Gary Payton in free agency, and no Malone. The Lakers would have still been the favorites. You, me, everybody would still bet the Lakers against the Pistons. Nobody saw what happened coming. The Malone injury is a pretty weak excuse. We would have been heavy favorites even if he had never signed. |
Phil jackson feels the same way (lakers would have won with Malone). |
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