jamison callin out JC for not contributing anything
Good. He deserves it. This is not the JC we want.
JC in his rookie year was somehow a much better playmaker than what JC is right now. He has the tools, but he's choosing to just use the hammer.
JC will only be rookie JC if he is moved back to point and not playing out of position as a scoring punch off the bench. some people think he threw nash's teaching out the window - when nash was teaching him, he was grooming him to play point for the future of this team. though he is not the point anymore and have been regulated as a scoring punch off the bench. when some people think he had a bad game or plays selfish, luke says he had a good game in post game interviews (minus last nights game). his true ability is being limited and he is doing what is asked of him.
if he was to be traded and the team (that he is traded to) doesn't limit him as just a scoring punch, people on the lakers would wonder why he didn't do that for us.
He played point last night. Nothing changed.
JC don't have a switch where he goes "oh I'm playing point guard now, let me find my open teammates more."
He isn't that type of player.
If you're a combo guard and put at the 2, you don't go. "Oh cause I'm a 2 now I no longer have to pass or look for teammates."
No! you take the knowledge you learned from being able to play both positions and you apply them. His ability to pass doesn't get auto turned off cause he's playing the 2. So let's call it what it is. He's playing stupid basketball no matter what position he's stuck at cause his mentality is the same.
That excuse of "Well JC doesn't pass cause he's playing shooting guard" is tiring.
So you're telling me that JC wouldn't dribble out the clock at the point and ignore his wide open teammates cause he thinks he can finish at the basket over everything?
Oh wait.. every time he's played point this year he's done that. Maybe it's not a 'position' thing, but a mentality thing.
The excuse of "oh he'd be a passer if he was stuck at the point guard but because he's at the 2 it's not his job to pass" is stretching tremendously, particularly when he from Mizzou to the NBA has played combo guard that had to attack and pass at the same time. JC knows what the heck to do, he's just refusing to do so cause he thinks he's better than he is. The switch ain't gonna flick magically cause he's playing the 1. He's not that stupid. He knows what he's supposed to be doing. He just thinks his way is better, and that's the problem.
I think is both position and mentality thing. He has too much confidence with his scoring ability. This is one thing. But I do think if Luke tells him to take the facilitator role and stop being so aggressive, he would change. Some players just need more time to find the balance between passing and attacking. Kobe did it too but the only difference was he was so good at making tough shots so everyone allowed him. Russell is having this problem as well. I know Clarkson is already 24 but this is still his 3rd nba season. And don't forget, initially we tried to run him as a facilitaor in his rookie season, it was until we drafted Russell that his role was changed. You can argue Nance has a better feeling of his game than Clarkson but that's because he is a true role player. Clarkson's celing is higher. I think at his best he can be Monta Ellis who at his prime was a star player. He needs more time to figure it out and we should be patience about it.
On the other hand, I don't know what has Luke told him, but if Luke already tells him to change his playing style and he continues to perform like this, then his days in nba is limited.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject:
lakersfan8 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Megaton wrote:
cKPayasoLoco wrote:
jamison callin out JC for not contributing anything
Good. He deserves it. This is not the JC we want.
JC in his rookie year was somehow a much better playmaker than what JC is right now. He has the tools, but he's choosing to just use the hammer.
JC will only be rookie JC if he is moved back to point and not playing out of position as a scoring punch off the bench. some people think he threw nash's teaching out the window - when nash was teaching him, he was grooming him to play point for the future of this team. though he is not the point anymore and have been regulated as a scoring punch off the bench. when some people think he had a bad game or plays selfish, luke says he had a good game in post game interviews (minus last nights game). his true ability is being limited and he is doing what is asked of him.
if he was to be traded and the team (that he is traded to) doesn't limit him as just a scoring punch, people on the lakers would wonder why he didn't do that for us.
He played point last night. Nothing changed.
JC don't have a switch where he goes "oh I'm playing point guard now, let me find my open teammates more."
He isn't that type of player.
If you're a combo guard and put at the 2, you don't go. "Oh cause I'm a 2 now I no longer have to pass or look for teammates."
No! you take the knowledge you learned from being able to play both positions and you apply them. His ability to pass doesn't get auto turned off cause he's playing the 2. So let's call it what it is. He's playing stupid basketball no matter what position he's stuck at cause his mentality is the same.
That excuse of "Well JC doesn't pass cause he's playing shooting guard" is tiring.
So you're telling me that JC wouldn't dribble out the clock at the point and ignore his wide open teammates cause he thinks he can finish at the basket over everything?
Oh wait.. every time he's played point this year he's done that. Maybe it's not a 'position' thing, but a mentality thing.
The excuse of "oh he'd be a passer if he was stuck at the point guard but because he's at the 2 it's not his job to pass" is stretching tremendously, particularly when he from Mizzou to the NBA has played combo guard that had to attack and pass at the same time. JC knows what the heck to do, he's just refusing to do so cause he thinks he's better than he is. The switch ain't gonna flick magically cause he's playing the 1. He's not that stupid. He knows what he's supposed to be doing. He just thinks his way is better, and that's the problem.
I think is both position and mentality thing. He has too much confidence with his scoring ability. This is one thing. But I do think if Luke tells him to take the facilitator role and stop being so aggressive, he would change. Some players just need more time to find the balance between passing and attacking. Kobe did it too but the only difference was he was so good at making tough shots so everyone allowed him. Russell is having this problem as well. I know Clarkson is already 24 but this is still his 3rd nba season. And don't forget, initially we tried to run him as a facilitaor in his rookie season, it was until we drafted Russell that his role was changed. You can argue Nance has a better feeling of his game than Clarkson but that's because he is a true role player. Clarkson's celing is higher. I think at his best he can be Monta Ellis who at his prime was a star player. He needs more time to figure it out and we should be patience about it.
On the other hand, I don't know what has Luke told him, but if Luke already tells him to change his playing style and he continues to perform like this, then his days in nba is limited.
He's like post-Achilles Kobe, except JC was never Kobe to begin with so it's unclear where all the unwarranted confidence comes from. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
It's not Luke who forces JC to shoot the ball when 2 teammates are open. This is not a position issue, you don't have to be a PG to play team ball and make unselfish, winning plays.
Luke's whole mantra is "make the right play". There was one play where Clarkson drove and forced a shot and the camera cut to Luke telling him "you drew two, pass".
Also seen Luke getting on Clarkson about this.
Also have seen Luke when the camera cut to him telling Shaw 'he doesn't get it' after Clarkson did a similar thing a few games ago.
Part of me thinks, as much leeway as Luke gives his guys, it's very obvious to him what JC is doing and that he sees it as a problem. He is giving JC all the opportunities and chances to change that but JC doesn't seem to want to.
If JC keeps up like this, I have no doubt he'll be moved for someone who's willing to listen and do the right thing. JC may be talented, but he's in his own head and far from 'over himself'. Which is a big problem in this system. If you're not over yourself to the point you can make the right plays and stop being Riley from Boondocks, then it's time to cut our losses, and cut him from the team and find someone who will.
Like I said, I am not at the point where I'd say trade him and Black to Brooklyn for Lin, LeVert and RHJ. But I was getting there last night.
CandyCanes wrote:
He's like post-Achilles Kobe, except JC was never Kobe to begin with so it's unclear where all the unwarranted confidence comes from.
All you can do is laugh at all the agenda posts in this thread. JC will be fine, we've had a tough schedule. He has switched roles in as many seasons as he has been in the league. He has been unselfish, and yes I want him to be aggressive and look for his shot. A bashful JC is an ineffective JC. Everybody will start playing well again once we get our players back healthy and everyone goes back to role they were to start the season. _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Fans are acting like JC cannot be more passive. It's like, "this is what he's going to be, so might as well trade him!"
It was playing great early in the season, but he's been struggling over the past few weeks.
It reminds me of the fans on here when Klay Thompson was struggling. They were thinking of trade ideas and thinking we actually had a real chance to acquire him. This is just he impatient attitude with some fans on here.
Fans are acting like JC cannot be more passive. It's like, "this is what he's going to be, so might as well trade him!"
It was playing great early in the season, but he's been struggling over the past few weeks.
It reminds me of the fans on here when Klay Thompson was struggling. They were thinking of trade ideas and thinking we actually had a real chance to acquire him. This is just he impatient attitude with some fans on here.
Or maybe the problem is that he is consistently compared to klay, Westbrook, Parker, and derozan(people actually said he was better than this guy). Then when he falls well short of those ridiculous expectations the other side gets frustrated.
Clarksons a good piece to have but if he nets us enough, trading him probably isn't the worst idea. He hasn't shown a willingness to be more passive at any point and that makes him a detriment when he's shooting the ball poorly. He's a good player but his abilities are drastically exaggerated on here.
Moral of the story, stop comparing him to all-stars and he'll get less people asking to trade him.
Has anyone else started considering the effect that training with Drew Hanlen might have on players? Zach Lavine and Andrew Wiggins also train with him, and it's the same thing. One on one scoring, and literally no other contribution on the court. Despite their scoring numbers, Lavine and Wiggins are averaging 7 RPG and 5 APG COMBINED at 37 MPG each. You can bet that has something to do with why they can't win any games despite all that talent.
Look at Bradley Beal, who also trains with Hanlen. Again, fantastic scoring numbers. Very little contribution to the rest of the box score despite heavy minutes.
None of these guys play any defense, all leading scorers on losing teams.
Now compare that to the type of contribution we see JC having on the floor for the Lakers this season. I'm starting to see a trend.
BigGameHames wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
Fans are acting like JC cannot be more passive. It's like, "this is what he's going to be, so might as well trade him!"
It was playing great early in the season, but he's been struggling over the past few weeks.
It reminds me of the fans on here when Klay Thompson was struggling. They were thinking of trade ideas and thinking we actually had a real chance to acquire him. This is just he impatient attitude with some fans on here.
Or maybe the problem is that he is consistently compared to klay, Westbrook, Parker, and derozan(people actually said he was better than this guy). Then when he falls well short of those ridiculous expectations the other side gets frustrated.
Clarksons a good piece to have but if he nets us enough, trading him probably isn't the worst idea. He hasn't shown a willingness to be more passive at any point and that makes him a detriment when he's shooting the ball poorly. He's a good player but his abilities are drastically exaggerated on here.
Moral of the story, stop comparing him to all-stars and he'll get less people asking to trade him.
The problem is that his usage, minutes, and shot attempts are way too high for a non all-star. You're not allowed to shoot 35% on 16 shots per game over your last 5 games when the best you've ever been was a 15 ppg scorer.
I don't think he's inherently selfish, he's just one of those guys who wants it so bad he tries to do it himself. The problem is that he's just not good enough to be that guy.
Drew is good, but Drew described his own game as "I play like Westbrook", he played at some D1 school and was a shooter. So, he's all for putting the ball up himself, maybe he imparts that scoring mindset upon his clients too.
All you can do is laugh at all the agenda posts in this thread. JC will be fine, we've had a tough schedule. He has switched roles in as many seasons as he has been in the league. He has been unselfish, and yes I want him to be aggressive and look for his shot. A bashful JC is an ineffective JC. Everybody will start playing well again once we get our players back healthy and everyone goes back to role they were to start the season.
it is crazy that he has switched positions as much as he has been in the league and people call him selfish lol luke even gave him an opportunity to start and he said he'll do what the team needs. as well as his contract situation.
I think we need to take a bit of a chill pill with the criticism against JC.
I just think after a long road trip, he tried to be that 2nd scorer alongside Lou (who was killing it). He has gone a bit tunnel vision and there is no excuse for a guard (be it shooting or point) to not find open players, especially when he is more than capable of passing.
There are some troubling signs, but it's also undeniable that due to all these mounting injuries, the roles have been a bit jumbled and our bench unit dispersed a bit (i.e. Ingram to the starting lineup, Nance out). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I really need a "this is the difference between a PG & SG" explanation from LG that I can refer back to in conversations.
So who's our "PG" w/the bench unit...Clarkson or Lou?
Nick Young, Huertas and Calderon have a clear role.
Dlo, Clarkson and Lou are guards that can score and pass the ball. None has the length to defend a taller guard and none is a prolific distributor. In the days of PG and SG they were called combo guards and most of the times they where relegated to a 6th man role like Lou did all life long. If a combo guard have somewhat superstar level of talent you start and call him whatever you want and everything is going to be fine because after all, talent matters.
Not changing roles every single season could help JC development, but he has been a slightly above average player for us three seasons in a row, so I don't see the reason for all the criticisms. He is playing at a level compatible with his contract. He is not making any kind of "superstar in the making" money.
I really need a "this is the difference between a PG & SG" explanation from LG that I can refer back to in conversations.
So who's our "PG" w/the bench unit...Clarkson or Lou?
Nick Young, Huertas and Calderon have a clear role.
Dlo, Clarkson and Lou are guards that can score and pass the ball. None has the length to defend a taller guard and none is a prolific distributor. In the days of PG and SG they were called combo guards and most of the times they where relegated to a 6th man role like Lou did all life long. If a combo guard have somewhat superstar level of talent you start and call him whatever you want and everything is going to be fine because after all, talent matters.
Not changing roles every single season could help JC development, but he has been a slightly above average player for us three seasons in a row, so I don't see the reason for all the criticisms. He is playing at a level compatible with his contract. He is not making any kind of "superstar in the making" money.
Russell had a clear role whether you think it's the correct role or not. He was the PG and he was given the responsibility to run the starting unit. Calderon has a clear role because he has been asked to fill that role. Lou Clarkson and Ingram have all played some point with the second unit and have played a few different roles but Russell had a clearly defined role before his injury.
I really need a "this is the difference between a PG & SG" explanation from LG that I can refer back to in conversations.
So who's our "PG" w/the bench unit...Clarkson or Lou?
Nick Young, Huertas and Calderon have a clear role.
Dlo, Clarkson and Lou are guards that can score and pass the ball. None has the length to defend a taller guard and none is a prolific distributor. In the days of PG and SG they were called combo guards and most of the times they where relegated to a 6th man role like Lou did all life long. If a combo guard have somewhat superstar level of talent you start and call him whatever you want and everything is going to be fine because after all, talent matters.
Not changing roles every single season could help JC development, but he has been a slightly above average player for us three seasons in a row, so I don't see the reason for all the criticisms. He is playing at a level compatible with his contract. He is not making any kind of "superstar in the making" money.
Russell had a clear role whether you think it's the correct role or not. He was the PG and he was given the responsibility to run the starting unit. Calderon has a clear role because he has been asked to fill that role. Lou Clarkson and Ingram have all played some point with the second unit and have played a few different roles but Russell had a clearly defined role before his injury.
people try to actually explain this? I thought the mod was joking. lol
I really need a "this is the difference between a PG & SG" explanation from LG that I can refer back to in conversations.
So who's our "PG" w/the bench unit...Clarkson or Lou?
Nick Young, Huertas and Calderon have a clear role.
Dlo, Clarkson and Lou are guards that can score and pass the ball. None has the length to defend a taller guard and none is a prolific distributor. In the days of PG and SG they were called combo guards and most of the times they where relegated to a 6th man role like Lou did all life long. If a combo guard have somewhat superstar level of talent you start and call him whatever you want and everything is going to be fine because after all, talent matters.
Not changing roles every single season could help JC development, but he has been a slightly above average player for us three seasons in a row, so I don't see the reason for all the criticisms. He is playing at a level compatible with his contract. He is not making any kind of "superstar in the making" money.
What is the length requirement to defend the taller guard?
I really need a "this is the difference between a PG & SG" explanation from LG that I can refer back to in conversations.
So who's our "PG" w/the bench unit...Clarkson or Lou?
Nick Young, Huertas and Calderon have a clear role.
Dlo, Clarkson and Lou are guards that can score and pass the ball. None has the length to defend a taller guard and none is a prolific distributor. In the days of PG and SG they were called combo guards and most of the times they where relegated to a 6th man role like Lou did all life long. If a combo guard have somewhat superstar level of talent you start and call him whatever you want and everything is going to be fine because after all, talent matters.
Not changing roles every single season could help JC development, but he has been a slightly above average player for us three seasons in a row, so I don't see the reason for all the criticisms. He is playing at a level compatible with his contract. He is not making any kind of "superstar in the making" money.
What is the length requirement to defend the taller guard?
Just can't help himself. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
What is the length requirement to defend the taller guard?
- If a player can shoot over you the same way he shoots when there is nobody guarding him you don't have enough length.
- If a player can run circles around you you are not fast enough.
That is why players like Kevin Durant have a clear advantage because he is a deadly shooter and has a length advantage over most of his foes. We can say the same about Russell against a lot of PG, but in Durant's case the advantage is even more accentuated because he is not slower than most smaller SF.
Clarkson can move his feet, but he is not strong neither has the length to defend those guys. Dlo length is elite for a PG, but he is also giving some advantage for those SG while they are also stronger than him and some of them are also faster.
There is not a lot to discuss about that, after a couple of minutes watching JC, Dlo or Lou defending players like Clay or Butler it becomes clear that they are not strong or tall enough.
What is the length requirement to defend the taller guard?
- If a player can shoot over you the same way he shoots when there is nobody guarding him you don't have enough length.
- If a player can run circles around you you are not fast enough.
That is why players like Kevin Durant have a clear advantage because he is a deadly shooter and has a length advantage over most of his foes. We can say the same about Russell against a lot of PG, but in Durant's case the advantage is even more accentuated because he is not slower than most smaller SF.
Clarkson can move his feet, but he is not strong neither has the length to defend those guys. Dlo length is elite for a PG, but he is also giving some advantage for those SG while they are also stronger than him and some of them are also faster.
There is not a lot to discuss about that, after a couple of minutes watching JC, Dlo or Lou defending players like Clay or Butler it becomes clear that they are not strong or tall enough.
Man, if you were a Portland fan, you'd probably go crazy with Lillard/McCollum, or back in the day, Frazier/Monroe. Or how about West/Goodrich? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
What is the length requirement to defend the taller guard?
- If a player can shoot over you the same way he shoots when there is nobody guarding him you don't have enough length.
- If a player can run circles around you you are not fast enough.
That is why players like Kevin Durant have a clear advantage because he is a deadly shooter and has a length advantage over most of his foes. We can say the same about Russell against a lot of PG, but in Durant's case the advantage is even more accentuated because he is not slower than most smaller SF.
Clarkson can move his feet, but he is not strong neither has the length to defend those guys. Dlo length is elite for a PG, but he is also giving some advantage for those SG while they are also stronger than him and some of them are also faster.
There is not a lot to discuss about that, after a couple of minutes watching JC, Dlo or Lou defending players like Clay or Butler it becomes clear that they are not strong or tall enough.
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