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| Total Votes : 416 |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Just curious, how do you draft experts rank Ingram alongside Tatum and Jackson? |
It's hard to say because I'm a little jaded so far by what I've seen this year BUT I think most would rank him higher or at the very least the same level.
Josh Jackson reminds me of a less offensively inclined Wiggins but with superior D and toughness.
Not sure how I feel on Tatum |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Just curious, how do you draft experts rank Ingram alongside Tatum and Jackson? |
It's hard to say because I'm a little jaded so far by what I've seen this year BUT I think most would rank him higher or at the very least the same level.
Josh Jackson reminds me of a less offensively inclined Wiggins but with superior D and toughness.
Not sure how I feel on Tatum |
Tatum is more polished as a midrange scorer, but Ingram is a better defender and likely better 3pt shooter and passer. It's early, but Tatum looks like a mostly midrange iso-scorer type in the mold of Wiggins. |
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tj24
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Just curious, how do you draft experts rank Ingram alongside Tatum and Jackson? |
It's hard to say because I'm a little jaded so far by what I've seen this year BUT I think most would rank him higher or at the very least the same level.
Josh Jackson reminds me of a less offensively inclined Wiggins but with superior D and toughness.
Not sure how I feel on Tatum |
Tatum is more polished as a midrange scorer, but Ingram is a better defender and likely better 3pt shooter and passer. It's early, but Tatum looks like a mostly midrange iso-scorer type in the mold of Wiggins. |
Rudy Gay.
Ingram and Jackson will be better pros. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury. |
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA. |
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways. |
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case). |
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have). |
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic. |
Yeah, Simmons would have immediately been compared to Magic and we wouldn't have the silly "is DLO a PG" arguments. 
I still see Ingram as the "Bird" to Simmons "Magic." |
I was in love with Simmons at the draft. Dude has the perfect game to compliment D'LO (and JC) and from my POV will be a HOF guy. IMO, the gap between Simmons and Ingram is going to be equal to or larger than that between Towns and D'LO.
Luckily for us, Simmons isn't playing right now and besides Embiid, no rookie is really outplaying the other by miles here. Us fans have been spared of watching Simmons dazzle the NBA world with his passing while Ingram looks pedestrian thus far. Hopefully by the time Ben comes back, Ingram has found his game a little bit more.
Yes Simmons would have created roster imbalance, but that superstar upside is there and his floor is pretty damn high also. Randle would have been on the move. |
I strongly disagree that Ingram has looked pedestrian so far. The shooting stroke, the handles for his size, the intelligence, the defense, the drive to improve, the humble character and his immense reach are far from pedestrian. I think you are mistaking his youth for being pedestrian. He was the youngest player in the draft. He is younger than many players in the 2017 draft and he is more than a year younger than BS.
He is going to be an absolute low-maintenance super star. He is a unicorn folks.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Not sure how much of a log jam Simmons would really create.
I think that Simmons would be finding himself playing the 3 in the starting lineup, and in small ball lineups would be playing the 5. Considering that Randle has been able to play both the 4 and 5 him and Simmons could be ran in multiple small ball lineups together as the 4 and 5, and the starting lineup as the 3.
Simmons jumper would have been a priority for Luke essentially, but his driving and dishing in this offense alongside Russell's passing and Randle's passing would have kept the defense guessing where to go.
I said before the draft that I thought Simmons was a better fit here, and Ingram was a better fit in Philly.
But right now we don't have Simmons, and we have Ingram, and Ingram as much as people didn't want to admit it, is a project offensively at the NBA level. Defensively he's one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen, so I am glad we have that.
If his offensive game ever comes around he'll be dangerous, however his skillset just isn't big enough at the NBA level yet for him to consistently contribute in any other way other than defensively.
People overhyped the kid coming out of Duke, acting like a few nice passes meant he could even play point guard for us cause he was a point guard before he grew, and all that other stuff about being more efficient than KD or one of the most efficient NCAA players in a while an all this stuff, and remained in denial about how that stretch he had was all he had and he fell back down to earth as the season went on before having a few solid tournament games.
They felt he was gonna bring all that momentum in the NBA, but he didn't, and wasn't going to.
Ingram is what he is. A project offensively, and a high potential defender. At his floor, that's what he'll be, but there's at least a high probability his offense is going to come around. How long is the question, but it may be 2 more seasons before this kid is making a consistent contribution. And fans are gonna have to be ok with that. Because that's who we've got. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: |
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MJST- you really expected BI to come in and be able to play in the NBA with grown men right away? I didn't. He has far exceeded my expectations. The kid is 19 and is under 200 lbs. He was not overhyped at all, all the projections on him that I read mentioned how young and thin he is.
He was a late bloomer physically. He was 6'2" in high school.
He will take a few years to physically mature and he will be an absolute superstar.
Simmons was more than a year old and has all sorts of red flags aside form his injury. He does not play D, not interested in it. He has a poor attitude and he jumper is crap. He is not a low maintenance player, he is a prima-donna. We got the better player even if he takes a few more years to develop.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | MJST- you really expected BI to come in and be able to play in the NBA with grown men right away? I didn't. He has far exceeded my expectations. The kid is 19 and is under 200 lbs. He was not overhyped at all, all the projections on him that I read mentioned how young and thin he is.
He was a late bloomer physically. He was 6'2" in high school.
He will take a few years to physically mature and he will be an absolute superstar.
Simmons was more than a year old and has all sorts of red flags aside form his injury. He does not play D, not interested in it. He has a poor attitude and he jumper is crap. He is not a low maintenance player, he is a prima-donna. We got the better player even if he takes a few more years to develop. |
No |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Remember Simmons is 1 year older too.
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2019
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I strongly disagree that Ingram has looked pedestrian so far. The shooting stroke, the handles for his size, the intelligence, the defense, the drive to improve, the humble character and his immense reach are far from pedestrian. I think you are mistaking his youth for being pedestrian. He was the youngest player in the draft. He is younger than many players in the 2017 draft and he is more than a year younger than BS.
He is going to be an absolute low-maintenance super star. He is a unicorn folks. |
Maybe I am. That' fair.
I'm not saying I don't see potential in him.. I just saw more in Simmons and thus far Ingram hasn't really produced the way we'd all have liked. That doesn't mean he won't, he's just a lot more green than any of us ever really saw. Well, maybe some knew that but I assumed he'd be a solid 3&D guy right away.
I hope he can hit that superstar ceiling you're talking about. I'd love to be wrong. I personally see a 18-22ppg guy who plays elite D. That's still damn good...
Anyway, Gianni, PG13, and Kwahi all took 3 years + to really come into their own and I think that is the curve he is on. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| If only Brandon could receive the benefit of the doubt that Julius has gotten. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm warming up to Gonzaga JR PG Nigel Williams-Goss (6'4"), who had a great game last night against his former team, UW: highlights.
He's not a great athlete, but he's crafty at getting into the lane and finishing over size and as a team defender. It's a small sample size so far, but he's really flourishing knocking down jumpers off the catch at Gonzaga, which was an issue for him his first two years. His ceiling looks like a slower Corey Joseph with a jumper.
The Lakers could use a long-term upgrade from 'Celo Huertas at backup PG, and NWG would be another big combo-guard who can orchestrate as well as potentially work off-ball as a cutter and spot up shooter (we'll see if he can maintain his current 3pt%s). Though he's a savvy, physical defender in college, his lack of quicks could catch up to him trying to stop quicker NBA guards. But he'd certainly be a defensive upgrade over Huertas.
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Quote: | I strongly disagree that Ingram has looked pedestrian so far. The shooting stroke, the handles for his size, the intelligence, the defense, the drive to improve, the humble character and his immense reach are far from pedestrian. I think you are mistaking his youth for being pedestrian. He was the youngest player in the draft. He is younger than many players in the 2017 draft and he is more than a year younger than BS.
He is going to be an absolute low-maintenance super star. He is a unicorn folks. |
Maybe I am. That' fair.
I'm not saying I don't see potential in him.. I just saw more in Simmons and thus far Ingram hasn't really produced the way we'd all have liked. That doesn't mean he won't, he's just a lot more green than any of us ever really saw. Well, maybe some knew that but I assumed he'd be a solid 3&D guy right away.
I hope he can hit that superstar ceiling you're talking about. I'd love to be wrong. I personally see a 18-22ppg guy who plays elite D. That's still damn good...
Anyway, Gianni, PG13, and Kwahi all took 3 years + to really come into their own and I think that is the curve he is on. |
Yup, 3 years seems about right to me for BI, he will be 22 then!
I do agree that Simmons was much more NBA ready coming out of college because he already had a man's body, 240 lbs. and all.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. Not sure why this was a surprise to anyone. Just look at their bodies. We knew Simmons would come out the gate faster...except for that injury. But in the long run, it's fair game to say that Ingram can be as good or better.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly if Simmons even gets a decent jump shot, Ingram likely won't ever be a better player than him. And that's ok. Ingram will be a better defender and shooter though.
If Ingram did, he'd be a superstar. I don't think anyone sees superstar with Ingram. Could it happen? Sure. But it isn't likely.
Whats more likely is Ingram becomes a two way star of a 2nd option. Which is just fine. |
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2019
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Yeah. Not sure why this was a surprise to anyone. Just look at their bodies. We knew Simmons would come out the gate faster...except for that injury. But in the long run, it's fair game to say that Ingram can be as good or better. |
Yeah but that logic can be selectively applied. I mean, Duran't body was nothing to write home about yet he averaged 20+. Porzingis and Towns both seemed like lower impact players right out of the gate (due to their body) with high potential upsides and both have erased any doubts that they are ready. Dunn was the most NBA ready body in the past draft and he's looked pretty bad.
I guess, and to bring it back to a discussion of this coming draft, there is no exact science. You look at the physicals, skill set, personal background, mental makeup, and on court history, to project who and what that player will be.
Good thing Mitch, West, and Jesse Buss have proven to be so competent with those second rounders... |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Honestly if Simmons even gets a decent jump shot, Ingram likely won't ever be a better player than him. And that's ok. Ingram will be a better defender and shooter though.
If Ingram did, he'd be a superstar. I don't think anyone sees superstar with Ingram. Could it happen? Sure. But it isn't likely.
Whats more likely is Ingram becomes a two way star of a 2nd option. Which is just fine. |
I see superstar in Ingram.
Why not? Guys like Kawhi and Giannis (not there yet but he will be) have shown us you don't need to be a dominant volume scorer (which I'm not sure Ingram will ever be) to be a franchise centerpiece. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Honestly if Simmons even gets a decent jump shot, Ingram likely won't ever be a better player than him. And that's ok. Ingram will be a better defender and shooter though.
If Ingram did, he'd be a superstar. I don't think anyone sees superstar with Ingram. Could it happen? Sure. But it isn't likely.
Whats more likely is Ingram becomes a two way star of a 2nd option. Which is just fine. |
I see superstar in Ingram.
Why not? Guys like Kawhi and Giannis (not there yet but he will be) have shown us you don't need to be a dominant volume scorer (which I'm not sure Ingram will ever be) to be a franchise centerpiece. |
Bingo.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Just curious, how do you draft experts rank Ingram alongside Tatum and Jackson? |
Unfair to judge this early.
Ingram at this point was a deer in headlights.
Tatum looks like a traditional slashing SF.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Villanova G/F Josh Hart with the monster 37/11 stat line in a comeback win against undefeated Notre Dame this morning: Highlight Reel. |
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Watch for Lonzo ball vs Umich today. Another good test for Ball.
Also, Gonzaga might have the best team in the country this season.. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm always in favor for spending the full amount possible (~3.5M) to buy the highest draft pick possible every draft in the 2nd round to draft BPA. GS was able to find a steal for only cash in the past draft in McCaw.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't we learned not to place ceilings on rookies after watching only their first two months in the league?
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Just watched Tatum live for the 1st time and he looks like the real deal. Great size for a wing at 6'8 205 lbs and he has the body type to fill out more. Explosive 1st step, good handle, good vision as a passer and a great midrange shooter. He also looked good defensively.
He reminds me of Paul George. The team that drafts him in the top 5 are getting a great player. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Say what you will about Grayson Allen, but he's a shooter you don't want to jump with
https://vine.co/v/5xtDYzHQ3rP
he hasn't been healthy this year, but he seems to be getting there. Monster game vs UNLV today where he looked like himself. |
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Say what you will about Grayson Allen, but he's a shooter you don't want to jump with
https://vine.co/v/5xtDYzHQ3rP
he hasn't been healthy this year, but he seems to be getting there. Monster game vs UNLV today where he looked like himself. |
Right now they have Allen at around 30. I think we should try to get him next season. He would be a good fit in Luke's offense.
Also, Ball's shot is UGLY. However, he is somehow shooting a very high percentage from the 3 line this season. |
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