David Stern: "There was never a trade to void" ??
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject:

If Sterns died in a car wreck, I would clap.

F him and his revisionist history!!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Quote:

That's a lot to quote all at once, but I still don't understand what you mean by trading Gasol and Odom and cutting New Orleans out of the transaction. I know exactly what you were referring to, you don't need to underline and italicize especially since you use the same diction in your replies. Are you saying the Lakers had a burning desire to dump their guys of value for anyone? How exactly does that land them a superstar PG? I genuinely don't understand.


You aren't the first person on LG to speak well of the package that was going to New Orleans and which would have probably got them stuck in the middle of the standings (and draft order).


First of all, with all due respect, this makes zero sense in the context of NBA trades. Regardless of our disagreement about the value of those players (and I think our opinions of them don't differ as greatly as you think) you can't just say "if you value them so much, why didn't you take them." I'm sure you know why though.

I admit I had an incorrect recollection of Eric Gordon at the time. It seems like he was coming off the best year of his career. With that said, let's rehash what NO would receive in both deals. Remember that Paul has indicated definitively to the NO brass that he won't re-sign.

Lakers deal: Kevin Martin (27), Luis Scola (30), Lamar Odom (32), Goran Dragic (25), 2012 First Round Pick (Houston via NY, ended up being #16)

Clippers deal: Eric Gordon (23), Chris Kaman (27), Al-Farouq Aminu (21), and 2012 First Round Pick (LAC via MIN, ended up being #10)

Do you see a significant difference in the quality of those players?

If you think the Clippers deal is better talent-wise and has more "upside", consider that Chris Kaman had a significant drop-off in production the year before and then continued to steadily decline. Aminu and Gordon were exciting prospects here, though Aminu was reaaaally raw at the time. But if this talent pool is better than the Lakers, how is it conducive to tanking for AD which many of you have implicated was the trajectory of NO?

In the Lakers deal you had established talent (Martin in his prime and Dragic entering it). If you wanted to tank, you could trade Martin (K Mart and Jeremy Lamb for James Harden, anyone?). Odom was also a championship player, and you could conceivably plug him into any team that was win-now looking to go deep into the playoffs and willing to give up a late 1st rounder. Scola was a burden, but if you're tanking, why do you care about playing out a few years of a bad contract?




Quote:

First of all, with all due respect, this makes zero sense in the context of NBA trades. Regardless of our disagreement about the value of those players (and I think our opinions of them don't differ as greatly as you think) you can't just say "if you value them so much, why didn't you take them." I'm sure you know why though.


That they were considered middling players and the Lakers weren't interested in bringing in that level of talent. Yet, some on LG considered it a good deal for New Orleans to take in the very same middling players.

There was the risk for New Orleans of Chris Paul eventually leaving with no compensation, but the Lakers were over the Salary Cap and needed the cooperation of New Orleans (and Houston) to get the financial numbers to work.

Salaries 2011 - 2012

Quote:

Los Angeles Lakers ..... Total $87,392,955
Kobe Bryant ................ $25,244,493 ($20,318,738)
Pau Gasol .................. $18,714,150 ($15,062,609)
Andrew Bynum ............... $14,900,000 ($11,992,683)
Metta World Peace .......... $6,790,640 ($5,465,637)
Luke Walton ................ $5,680,000 ($4,571,707)
Steve Blake ................ $4,000,000 ($3,219,512)
Derek Fisher ............... $3,400,000 ($2,736,585)
Josh McRoberts ............. $3,000,000 ($2,414,634)
Matt Barnes ................ $1,906,200 ($1,534,259)
Troy Murphy ................ $1,352,181 ($1,088,341) min, counts $854,389
Jason Kapono ............... $1,223,166 ($984,499) min, counts $854,389
Devin Ebanks ............... $762,195 ($613,474) minimum
Andrew Goudelock ........... $473,604 ($381,193) minimum
Darius Morris .............. $473,604 ($381,193) minimum
Derrick Caracter ........... $270,427 ($217,661) min, rel 2/7
Gerald Green ............... $73,818 ($59,414) s12/13-12/22,c$68,864


13. How is the salary cap set each year?

Quote:

Season Salary cap
2011-12 $58.044 million



Larry Coon mentioned that the core deal was still possible if the Lakers had budged, but they didn't. In hindsight, they probably should have budged instead of eventually going the Sessions & Nash route.
**************

Quote:

If you think the Clippers deal is better talent-wise and has more "upside", consider that Chris Kaman had a significant drop-off in production the year before and then continued to steadily decline.


Kaman was a large expiring contract and signed as a Free Agent with Dallas the following summer.

Mavericks agree with Chris Kaman


From the same Patricia Bender link cited earlier.

Quote:


Los Angeles Clippers ... Total $66,738,086
Chris Paul ................. $16,359,805 ($13,167,648)
DeAndre Jordan ............. $10,079,404 ($8,112,691)
Maurice Williams ........... $8,500,000 ($6,841,463)
Caron Butler ............... $8,000,000 ($6,439,024)
Blake Griffin .............. $5,731,080 ($4,612,820) 3rd yr rookie con
Randy Foye ................. $4,250,000 ($3,420,732)
Ryan Gomes ................. $4,000,000 ($3,219,512)
Kenyon Martin .............. $2,500,000 ($2,012,195) signed 2/3
Chauncey Billups ........... $2,000,032 ($1,609,782) amnesty pickup
Eric Bledsoe ............... $1,596,360 ($1,284,875) 2nd yr rookie con
Brian Cook ................. $1,223,166 ($984,499) minimum, multi-year
Reggie Evans ............... $1,229,255 ($989,400) min, counts $854,389
Bobby Simmons .............. $594,836 ($478,770) m,s 2/27, c $413,439
Travis Leslie .............. $473,604 ($381,193) minimum
Trey Thompkins ............. $473,604 ($381,193) minimum
Solomon Jones .............. $280,234 ($225,554) m,s1/3-2/7,c$241,194
Courtney Fortson ........... $42,009 ($33,812) min, s 1/16-1/27



Quote:


New Orleans Hornets .... Total $65,418,702
Chris Kaman ................ $14,030,000 ($11.292.439)
Emeka Okafor ............... $12,541,812 ($10,094,629)
Carl Landry ................ $8,500,000 ($6,841,463)
Trevor Ariza ............... $6,790,640 ($5,465,637)
Jarrett Jack ............... $5,000,000 ($4,024,390)
Eric Gordon ................ $3,831,184 ($3,083,636) 4th yr rookie con
Marco Belinelli ............ $3,377,604 ($2,718,559)
Al-Farouq Aminu ............ $2,755,560 ($2,217,890) 2nd yr rookie con
Jason Smith ................ $2,500,000 ($2,012,195)
Xavier Henry ............... $2,171,640 ($1,747,905) 2nd yr rookie con
Gustova Ayon ............... $1,567,500 ($1,261,646)
Greivis Vasquez ............ $1,113,600 ($896,312) 2nd yr rookie con
Lance Thomas ............... $328,444 ($264,357) min, r 12/31, s 2/7
DaJuan Summers ............. $303,137 ($243,988) min, rel 2/7
Jeff Foote ................. $225,341 ($181,372) min, signed 3/9
Carldell Johnson ........... $168,035 ($135,248) min, rel 2/7
Solomon Jones .............. $160,119 ($128,876) s2/15-3/9,c$137,813
Donald Sloan ............... $76,392 ($61,486) min, s 2/8, rel 3/2


Since Gordon and Aminu were on relatively bargain contracts, Kaman's expiring was probably included to offset Chris Paul's large contract.



Quote:

If you wanted to tank, you could trade Martin (K Mart and Jeremy Lamb for James Harden, anyone?).



There was also some picks included in the trade for Harden.

Thunder trade Harden to Rockets for Martin, Lamb and picks

Quote:

The Thunder acquired guards Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, two first-round picks and a second-round pick in the surprising deal that was completed Saturday night. Oklahoma City also sent center Cole Aldrich and forwards Daequan Cook and Lazar Hayward to Houston.
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panamaniac
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject:

There was a trade to void. Dan Gilbert even wrote a (bleep) letter about it. (bleep) off Stern!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject:

Semantics. What an ass.

I kind of like how he totally admits to be the owner's (bleep).
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Legacy wrote:
I still don't get how people think we were robbed/undercut in that potential trade scenario. I'm pissed at Cuban and Gilbert for being winy b!tches, and I think it's suspicious how the Pelicans were bought RIGHT after the void and then landed the first pick in the draft, but the outcome of our involvement was perfectly justified.

Let's get over this guys. Stop playing the victim.

you don't get it? you must be intentionally avoiding all the details. what a nonsense comment, i'm sorry. for what you said to be indeed just a "victim" scenario where the fans are simply looking to point a blame finger, you have to basically ignore every relevant fact of what went on. seriously, what are you talking about.


Oh, what I mean is there was no wrongdoing in terms of breaking any rules. That team was league owned. The rest of the owners didn't like it, so Stern acted on their behalf. That's what I'm talking about.

I don't like it either, but it was justified. My comment about some people playing the victim and thinking we were robbed/undercut stands as well. Unless there is another force at work here other than facts.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject:

@a trade was never submitted to league offices
again @technically there was not a trade to void(see above)
bottom line is Stern was the man who didn't let Paul come to Lakers
period
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject:

And I have never been upset about that, while I was more than willing to see what happened, I have never been a Chris Paul fan. I think he is a good player who just isn't a winner. I admit there might be bias from seeing Deron Williams and Dee Brown punk him in college.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
And I have never been upset about that, while I was more than willing to see what happened, I have never been a Chris Paul fan. I think he is a good player who just isn't a winner. I admit there might be bias from seeing Deron Williams and Dee Brown punk him in college.


I also don't think he and Kobe would have meshed well. Not say it would have been a trainwreck, but two ball dominant guards rarely works out well. There's a reason they put JJ redick next to paul and derek fisher next to kobe.

I agree with you that CP3 is not a winner. Guy can't get past the 2nd round.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject:

David Stern is out here gaslighting like a Trump spokesman.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Can this guy just go away. He will go down as the worst.


LOL! Stern will probably go down as the best NBA commissioner of all time. He did great things in growing that sport. Your hate is clouding your judgement. I think what happened to us was abysmal as well. But that doesn't change the fact that Stern did a great job in other avenues of his job.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Can this guy just go away. He will go down as the worst.


LOL! Stern will probably go down as the best NBA commissioner of all time. He did great things in growing that sport. Your hate is clouding your judgement. I think what happened to us was abysmal as well. But that doesn't change the fact that Stern did a great job in other avenues of his job.


Pretty much.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Can this guy just go away. He will go down as the worst.


LOL! Stern will probably go down as the best NBA commissioner of all time. He did great things in growing that sport. Your hate is clouding your judgement. I think what happened to us was abysmal as well. But that doesn't change the fact that Stern did a great job in other avenues of his job.


Pretty much.


no one is arguing that he wasnt good at his job. Unfortunately because of that trade veto his image will be tarnished and it is well deserved
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject:

FTW!!!!!

KingKobe20 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Eh, I never thought CP3 and Kobe together would have ever worked.


My avatar disagrees
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject:

Quote:
David Stern: The Lakers Could’ve Traded For Chris Paul If Mitch Kupchak Hadn’t ‘Panicked’

by Harrison Faigen (@) hmfaigen May 27, 2017, 12:35am

For any Los Angeles Lakers fans who have only begun watching the team after their rejected trade for Chris Paul known only as “The Veto,” first of all I’m sorry. You’ve had to watch some terrible basketball.

As a refresher, the Lakers agreed in principle to a three-team trade with the New Orleans Hornets and Houston Rockets that would’ve allowed Los Angeles to dump salary while ending up with Chris Paul in possibly the biggest trade heist of all-time.

That was not to be, however, with then-NBA Commissioner David Stern stepping in and infamously vetoing the trade for “basketball reasons” (yes, that’s an actual quote).

Since that fateful day, Stern has said many times he rejected the trade in his capacity as acting owner of the Hornets (the NBA owned the team at the time), not as commisioner, but during an appearance on the “Nunyo and Company” podcast, Stern revealed some new information: The Lakers still could have potentially completed a deal for Paul (emphasis mine).

Quote:
“(My decision) was only based on what was good for New Orleans, or what was not good for New Orleans. It had nothing to do with the Lakers at all. And in fact, in the course of the weekend, we thought we could re-do the deal. We really thought that Houston would be ready to part with Kyle Lowry; and we had a trade lined up for Odom that would have gotten us a good first round draft pick. Not we, but my basketball folks. But Mitch Kupchack at the time panicked, and moved Odom to Dallas. So the piece wasn’t even there for us to play with at the time. So that was it — just about what was good for the then New Orleans Hornets."


It’s important to note here that this is just Stern’s view/statement on what happened, and the Kupchak wasn’t given a chance to tell his side of the story. The former Lakers general manager might have seen the situation differently, or seen variables Stern is either unaware of or ignoring.

That being said, if Kupchak really did trade Odom to Dallas with a Paul deal potentially still on the table, it’s impossible to argue that decision didn’t hurt the Lakers. The team only received a trade exception and a top-20 protected first-round pick in exchange for Odom, so it’s not like they had some massive haul on the table that couldn’t wait.

It’s understandable if Kupchak felt pressure to trade Odom in the wake of his reaction nearly being traded for Paul, but if the deal for Paul was still somewhat on the table like Stern says it was, he should have been more patient.

We’ll likely never know for sure what exactly happened in some of the weirdest and most controversial trade talks in NBA history, but it seems like new details about “The Veto” won’t stop trickling out anytime soon.

Harrison Faigen is co-host of the Locked on Lakers podcast (subscribe here), and you can follow him on Twitter at @hmfaigen.


http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/5/27/15704016/la-lakers-trade-rumors-chris-paul-david-stern-lamar-odom-mitch-kupchak-podcast-veto
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject:

(bleep) David Stern. Putting the blame on others now is he? That's BS. He should just shut up about it so everyone can move on.

We all know what happened. He was under pressure from the rest of the owners so he vetoed the trade.
The only thing believable in his statement was that he did it for the benefit of New Orleans wherein he opted to trade CP3 to the Clippers for a less appealing package with the condition that NO get the #1 overall draft pick to entice potential buyers.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:26 am    Post subject:

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
defense wrote:
I've always gotten the sense that Davis stern is an evil human being

I have no proof what so ever


He always reminded me of Hitler and this is Long before the veto.



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject:

Now blaming Mitch since he's out of Lakers. .
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:52 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Now blaming Mitch since he's out of Lakers. .


It actually jives with other well sourced reports. The deal could have been revived. It was a mistake on Mitch's part.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
And I have never been upset about that, while I was more than willing to see what happened, I have never been a Chris Paul fan. I think he is a good player who just isn't a winner. I admit there might be bias from seeing Deron Williams and Dee Brown punk him in college.



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject:

No issues with what Stern did from an ethical or legal perspective.

The issue I have is that Stern should never have been made an owner rep.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject:

Chris Paul has never sniffed a conference finals and his style of ball pounding offense is out of fashion.

We would have been a lot better of course, but time to move on.

Stern was one of the most corrupt string pullers in the history of sports, what he did on the business side is irrelevant to me compared to things he messed up on the administration side. The Paul thing was a speck of sand on the beach compared to the decades of officiating manipulation and debacles.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject:

The problem is that the Lakers believed the Hornets had autonomy to do a deal, or the Hornets front office team at that time rather. I doubt they even tried a deal with the Hornets had they known that their deal would be weighed by external sources.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject:

I love how Stern is trying to re-write history. The veto was not the issue it was the conflict of interest that he was in position to make the veto in the first place. League should never have been in position to make the decision.

Remember the commentary was negative that the league was buying the team at all. The "conflict of interest" was predicted when the league bought the team months earlier. Stern and the league should not have been making personnel decisions.

Remember the timeline and culture of the league. They had just had a work stoppage for over five months. Big market vs small market owners were upset with the structure. There were reports of some owners willing to shut down the league for the year until compromises were made to "even the playing field " for small markets. They announced the new rules and the league was going to start up. And then the Lakers dropped this bombshell trade.

Small market owners were upset. They were just convinced their issues would be addressed to even get their votes to end the work stoppage. This Laker trade was a nightmare scenario for them and Stern. It was a direct contradiction to what the voted for. All within the rules by the way.

Remember the Gilbert letter that called it a "travesty" and "the rest of the league should change their names to the Washington Generals". Wonder if he still thinks the league should interfere for basketball reasons? The new super team structure seems to be undermining the competitive balance, isn't it? going to be an incredible Finals but the road to get there was damn boring. Kind of like a late night drive to Vegas.

As for Kupchak "panicking" with the Odom trade. Questionable IMO. Trade was vetoed, a couple days later the league was in full trade talks with the Clippers. Who knows if the Lakers or any team could still get back into the trade or more importantly why should they trust that Stern would negotiate fairly or reasonably at that point. The disgruntled owners did not want Paul going to the Lakers. What deal would they have accepted?

Odom was upset and refusing to show up to camp. The season was being fast=tracked and the Lakers were backed into a corner to move on or have a mess on their hands.

This was a fiasco from the very beginning. The conflict of interest was evident from the day the league bought the team. The assumption of independence by the Hornets GM was false. The small market owners whined about it and had the votes to disrupt the deal. Now that Stern is trying to change the perception years later is even more disgusting in my opinion. Just be honest. The small market owners influenced the trade. Stern had to go with the votes. It was messed up. No reason to lie and play the nuance PR game.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject:

I'am so over it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Now blaming Mitch since he's out of Lakers. .


It actually jives with other well sourced reports. The deal could have been revived. It was a mistake on Mitch's part.


Like most good spin, it jives because it is built out of them. The other reports were that the Lakers were given the opportunity to give up more draft picks. Now he's making that into there was a plan to help LA get more assets with the same pieces. The most nonsense part is using the word panicked. It's like accusing lavar ball of being too timid.
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