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tnell
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 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Something told me not to open this thread but I did anyway and now my head hurts. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time. |
I actually don't think our kids are less talented. Just younger with about a year each less experience.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time. |
I actually don't think our kids are less talented. Just younger with about a year each less experience. |
Well even assuming that the TWolves have a more talented core (very much up for debate) it's clear that 19-21 year olds leading any team take tremendous patience. I saw prognosticators predicting 45-50 wins for the TWolves this year.
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Killer_Z
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Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 4942
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| With all due respect to the OP, this is one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen on these boards. These are freaking kids ......not even, they're like babies in NBA years. Give it some damn time! |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Tonight was a type of game I don't mind losing outside of the horrible defense.
We saw the difference Randle could make on defense when engaged. 2 steals and a block in short time span. Luke played DLO 30+ minutes and he found a rhythm. Ingram showed flashes.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time. |
I actually don't think our kids are less talented. Just younger with about a year each less experience. |
Well even assuming that the TWolves have a more talented core (very much up for debate) it's clear that 19-21 year olds leading any team take tremendous patience. I saw prognosticators predicting 45-50 wins for the TWolves this year. |
I think the talent disparity between the TWolves young core and Laker young core is very distinct.
KAT is already a franchise player that's worth building around. I can't say that of any current Laker player, nevermind young core player.
Wiggins, you know is a consistent 20ppg. Doesn't have the best Iso skills but gets enough foul rate with long strides, wingspan, and hands to get it. Randle, DLO, JC... not at that level.
LaVine. Dude is a consistent perimeter shooter, more than the Laker young core, prior experience as a PG, elite athleticism too.
But this is how I know the Lakers are improved compared to last year, because they aren't even that far back in terms of wins compared to a (What I Think) is an easily multiple All-Star trio core of Tpups.
I certainly think that DLO, Randle, Ingram, etc., can get there too, but there are no questions about the Twolves ability to score the ball in Iso situations. You can consider KAT a go-to player in the crunch, even LaVine.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time. |
I actually don't think our kids are less talented. Just younger with about a year each less experience. |
Well even assuming that the TWolves have a more talented core (very much up for debate) it's clear that 19-21 year olds leading any team take tremendous patience. I saw prognosticators predicting 45-50 wins for the TWolves this year. |
I think the talent disparity between the TWolves young core and Laker young core is very distinct.
KAT is already a franchise player that's worth building around. I can't say that of any current Laker player, nevermind young core player.
Wiggins, you know is a consistent 20ppg. Doesn't have the best Iso skills but gets enough foul rate with long strides, wingspan, and hands to get it. Randle, DLO, JC... not at that level.
LaVine. Dude is a consistent perimeter shooter, more than the Laker young core, prior experience as a PG, elite athleticism too.
But this is how I know the Lakers are improved compared to last year, because they aren't even that far back in terms of wins compared to a (What I Think) is an easily multiple All-Star trio core of Tpups.
I certainly think that DLO, Randle, Ingram, etc., can get there too, but there are no questions about the Twolves ability to score the ball in Iso situations. You can consider KAT a go-to player in the crunch, even LaVine. |
Particularly telling is their defense, with their athleticism and length as well as a defensive minded coach, is barely better than the Lakers'. Just a function of being young, no matter what natural talent you have. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | In 10 months (Oct 2017), we have to decide whether to give Randle an extension or not. What if he's asking for max money? Don't we have to assess his value then? |
If the Lakers sign Randle to an extension this summer it would be similar to the deal they gave Clarkson, a less than max contract to keep him here long-term. They can wait until he becomes a restricted free agent in 2018 and then just match any offer if he wants max money. Most likely they'll try to get him for a bit less than that this Summer and save themselves down the road. |
Well, whatever they decide to offer him, they have to assess his value at that point.
And if you think they will only offer him a Clarkson like deal, then you are also assessing his value at this point.
This is in contrast to what you're saying:
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Trying to judge these young players in their first 1-2 (or 3 in Clarkson's case) years in the league is akin to judging a child's mental or athletic potential when they are 1-2 years old. Some guys start fast and then never improve (Evans, Jennings), others peak late (Nash, Wallace, Leonard), while most show a steady progression over the years. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | And if you think they will only offer him a Clarkson like deal, then you are also assessing his value at this point. |
By a Clarkson level deal I'm meaning a less than max deal. I think he'll likely get more than Clarkson money wise because the cap is going up again, and because I think the front office probably values Randle more than Clarkson. Obviously they'll try to get him as cheaply as they can, and give him the choice of taking an extension for a bit less money or risking injury the next season only to be restricted, and being two full years from being unrestricted. Having already missed his rookie season he has to know how quickly things can change, and I think he will likely be happy to sacrifice a few million a year for the security of an extension. |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28432
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | In 10 months (Oct 2017), we have to decide whether to give Randle an extension or not. What if he's asking for max money? Don't we have to assess his value then? |
If the Lakers sign Randle to an extension this summer it would be similar to the deal they gave Clarkson, a less than max contract to keep him here long-term. They can wait until he becomes a restricted free agent in 2018 and then just match any offer if he wants max money. Most likely they'll try to get him for a bit less than that this Summer and save themselves down the road. |
Well, whatever they decide to offer him, they have to assess his value at that point.
And if you think they will only offer him a Clarkson like deal, then you are also assessing his value at this point.
This is in contrast to what you're saying:
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Trying to judge these young players in their first 1-2 (or 3 in Clarkson's case) years in the league is akin to judging a child's mental or athletic potential when they are 1-2 years old. Some guys start fast and then never improve (Evans, Jennings), others peak late (Nash, Wallace, Leonard), while most show a steady progression over the years. |
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No offense to Randle but anyone who offers him the max is out of their mind. The dude has a unique skillset to be sure, but his actual impact on the game often lags behind your typical workhorse big like Black or Robinson. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Walton needs to bring in someone who can get these guys to play defense in the off season...
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E=MC²
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Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | Walton needs to bring in someone who can get these guys to play defense in the off season... |
Yep D should be the only priority |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| The Wolves young talent is SUPERIOR to ours (and the rest of the league for that matter). KAT is already a franchise player and I think will be one of the top three players in the league in the next couple of years. Add in Levine and Wiggins (all three are 21 years old), and you will not find a team in the league with better young talent. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | The Wolves young talent is SUPERIOR to ours (and the rest of the league for that matter). KAT is already a franchise player and I think will be one of the top three players in the league in the next couple of years. Add in Levine and Wiggins (all three are 21 years old), and you will not find a team in the league with better young talent. |
They're also supposed to be this good, something people take for granted. They had two 1st overall picks. And Lavine, lucky for them, broke out and is at times looking better than one of their 1st picks.
It's on teams like ours and other rebuilding efforts to find ways to keep up with their development somehow.
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Sina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| I like our trio in Randle, Ingram and Russell too. Young wolves have their niche in athletism but our young players have better basketball IQ and shooting touch |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves with their studly talent are 11-23. They got the supposedly amazing Thibs and are looking like a hot mess.
Maybe we should cut our less talented kids a little slack? It takes time. |
I actually don't think our kids are less talented. Just younger with about a year each less experience. |
Well even assuming that the TWolves have a more talented core (very much up for debate) it's clear that 19-21 year olds leading any team take tremendous patience. I saw prognosticators predicting 45-50 wins for the TWolves this year. |
I think the talent disparity between the TWolves young core and Laker young core is very distinct.
KAT is already a franchise player that's worth building around. I can't say that of any current Laker player, nevermind young core player.
Wiggins, you know is a consistent 20ppg. Doesn't have the best Iso skills but gets enough foul rate with long strides, wingspan, and hands to get it. Randle, DLO, JC... not at that level.
LaVine. Dude is a consistent perimeter shooter, more than the Laker young core, prior experience as a PG, elite athleticism too.
But this is how I know the Lakers are improved compared to last year, because they aren't even that far back in terms of wins compared to a (What I Think) is an easily multiple All-Star trio core of Tpups.
I certainly think that DLO, Randle, Ingram, etc., can get there too, but there are no questions about the Twolves ability to score the ball in Iso situations. You can consider KAT a go-to player in the crunch, even LaVine. |
Particularly telling is their defense, with their athleticism and length as well as a defensive minded coach, is barely better than the Lakers'. Just a function of being young, no matter what natural talent you have. |
Yeah that's exactly my point. Even arguably the best young core (TWolves) are a worst team record wise than the Lakers. Yet you don't see folks here saying that the place needs to be burned down.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Wolves need to burn down too.
Probably trade Lavine and Shabazz eventually and keep Towns/Wiggins. Dunn is still a question mark. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | Wolves need to burn down too.
Probably trade Lavine and Shabazz eventually and keep Towns/Wiggins. Dunn is still a question mark. |
If the Wolves burned it down and traded away their 2nd best player, they'd make some other team really happy.
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Phil Jackson won 11 championships by never playing rookies. If we want to win a couple more games now, we could trade away all our young for veterans. Or we could just wait for our young to grow into veterans and endure the growing pain in the process.
There's really no way around this. I expect we will remain irrelevant for at least another few years while our young core develops so I'm not too worried about the record.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | The Wolves young talent is SUPERIOR to ours (and the rest of the league for that matter). KAT is already a franchise player and I think will be one of the top three players in the league in the next couple of years. Add in Levine and Wiggins (all three are 21 years old), and you will not find a team in the league with better young talent. |
I think KAT is clearly the one special player in the group so far, while the remaining Wolves' and the Lakers' players are all flawed, but all have potential to varying degrees to become special.
Wiggins in particular tends to be the most overrated young player in the league because he can score with solid efficiency in isolations, but he doesn't bring much more to the table than that. Here's an interesting article on Wiggins and Lavine from the thoughtful Wolves' bloggers at CanisHoopus:
| Quote: | Wiggins remains a strange case. He benefits from being a highly touted number one pick and the belief from some of the smartest people in the NBA that he is a star in the making. Yet, the criticisms of his game have yet to be addressed and the advanced stats reflect this.
Some of the more common names thrown around as comparisons for his development have been:
Floor = Rudy Gay
Middle Ground = DeMar DeRozan (although this has become less of a “middle ground” now)
Ceiling = Paul George or Jimmy Butler
However, Rudy Gay’s advanced stats for his career have never really approached the depths that Wiggins’ has outside of his rookie year. Jimmy Butler and Paul George were playing at an absurdly higher level than Wiggins is right now by their third year, not to mention their second.
DeMar DeRozan’s numbers were certainly similarly poor and he did not make the “leap” until his fifth season. However, these types of jumps in production in the NBA do not seem to be common.
Wiggins does not have the luxury of a linear development path nor well-defined role in the way that LaVine has. One imagines that Wiggins may have more success placed in a lower-usage role, focusing on his defense, three point shooting, and limited pick and roll duties while slashing towards the hoop and running in transition. |
Link |
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LakersForever123
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 2261
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Truck Turner wrote: | | It's dumbfounding how impatient some of you guys are. |
This. Let us all be patient. |
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