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Daphanabe
Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2768
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Ironic how some will state that Phil Jackson is a poor executive, lucked into drafting Porzingis, yet all at the same time say that Rose and Melo (Phil's 2 main moves outside of Porzingis) help make the draft pick into a better player. Just 5 months ago it was all about how Porzingis wouldn't be able to play well because of Rose and Melo hogging all the plays. Now it's that they help create more space and shots for him (they probably would, I don't know since I don't follow their games regularly).
Could it be just that someone who has won 11 rings knows the ins and outs of a basketball game and how to put together a decent roster? Maybe he in fact knew that his prized draft pick would thrive with a coaching style and star players that drew attention? That's a far cry from saying the guys the best, but he certainly is way better than Jimbo.
Jimbo needs to be replaced. Period. Phil can stay in NY, retire or whatever. I don't care. Jimbo needs to go, and Mitch can go with him. This is a mockery. Constant losing and no talent outside of some elite draft picks. An idiot could do this. Literally, an idiot could lose games all the time and draft decently. Yes, decently. We made some great picks in the 2nd round/late 1st, and credit to us. But our lottery picks have been not any superior or outstanding than any other teams in the same positioning. Even with a big coaching change, the results are same. We're one of the worst teams in the league, again. How is this acceptable?
Hope Jeannie cleans house. Get in someone from OKC, San Antonio, or whereever. I don't care. Enough of the moves like signing Luol freaking Deng to 80 million dollar contracts as your main free agent moves. You don't see San Antonio doing that. I'll bet top dollar San Antonio will never ever do a move like that even after the slip into full rebuild mode. You just can't make moves like that. Abysmal. |
Wonderful post. Captured exactly how I feel.  |
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | The understanding was that Jeannie would need support from her siblings. Initially they all agreed while Jim is unproven that he deserved a certain time frame. That time frame were these 4 years. Now maybe her siblings will never give her the authority to fire Jim for Phil. I could buy into that theory, although I have personally read alot of stuff contradicting that.
What I do not believe is that her siblings would not support Jim being booted (and Kupchak with him) for someone who actually qualifed based on merit not personal relationship. I do think there was a clear time line Jim gave them and his most recent interview showed me he knows he's in troube this summer. If Jeannie pushes it this summer, I think she gets support from her siblings to replace Jim.
Now we'll see if it was always about just Phil for Jeannie or actually hiring the best man for the job. We'll see. Jeannie needs to step up and back up her words (and my somewhat support for her). I've always felt she was more than Phil. I think Lakers are enriched in her DNA. If so, step up and make the move that's neccessary. Get someone in who has a proven record as a FO executive, who is not at all related to you or in a personal relationship with you. |
There are 6 Buss siblings; Johnny, Jim, Jeanie, Janie, Jesse, and Joey.
Which 4 will vote for Jim's ouster? |
Why wouldn't all of them vote to out him if we keep going on this trajectory? |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58343
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | The understanding was that Jeannie would need support from her siblings. Initially they all agreed while Jim is unproven that he deserved a certain time frame. That time frame were these 4 years. Now maybe her siblings will never give her the authority to fire Jim for Phil. I could buy into that theory, although I have personally read alot of stuff contradicting that.
What I do not believe is that her siblings would not support Jim being booted (and Kupchak with him) for someone who actually qualifed based on merit not personal relationship. I do think there was a clear time line Jim gave them and his most recent interview showed me he knows he's in troube this summer. If Jeannie pushes it this summer, I think she gets support from her siblings to replace Jim.
Now we'll see if it was always about just Phil for Jeannie or actually hiring the best man for the job. We'll see. Jeannie needs to step up and back up her words (and my somewhat support for her). I've always felt she was more than Phil. I think Lakers are enriched in her DNA. If so, step up and make the move that's neccessary. Get someone in who has a proven record as a FO executive, who is not at all related to you or in a personal relationship with you. |
There are 6 Buss siblings; Johnny, Jim, Jeanie, Janie, Jesse, and Joey.
Which 4 will vote for Jim's ouster? |
Why wouldn't all of them vote to out him if we keep going on this trajectory? |
I don't pretend or act like I would know what each would do. But what you said is what normal rational people would do. And not in a mean or bad way. Simply say "Hey bro, you had your chance. We love you. Youre still an owner and we think no less of you. We love that you tried because dad wanted you to. However we should try something different to see if it gets better results". |
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67ShelbyGT
Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 4048
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the effect of Kobe's retirement. Jim and Mitch are finally feeling what it is to not have Kobe take all the heat off of you. Spotlight is finally where it should've been. Jim cant hide in Kobe's shadow anymore. He's getting exposed. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | The understanding was that Jeannie would need support from her siblings. Initially they all agreed while Jim is unproven that he deserved a certain time frame. That time frame were these 4 years. Now maybe her siblings will never give her the authority to fire Jim for Phil. I could buy into that theory, although I have personally read alot of stuff contradicting that.
What I do not believe is that her siblings would not support Jim being booted (and Kupchak with him) for someone who actually qualifed based on merit not personal relationship. I do think there was a clear time line Jim gave them and his most recent interview showed me he knows he's in troube this summer. If Jeannie pushes it this summer, I think she gets support from her siblings to replace Jim.
Now we'll see if it was always about just Phil for Jeannie or actually hiring the best man for the job. We'll see. Jeannie needs to step up and back up her words (and my somewhat support for her). I've always felt she was more than Phil. I think Lakers are enriched in her DNA. If so, step up and make the move that's neccessary. Get someone in who has a proven record as a FO executive, who is not at all related to you or in a personal relationship with you. |
There are 6 Buss siblings; Johnny, Jim, Jeanie, Janie, Jesse, and Joey.
Which 4 will vote for Jim's ouster? |
Why wouldn't all of them vote to out him if we keep going on this trajectory? |
I don't pretend or act like I would know what each would do. But what you said is what normal rational people would do. And not in a mean or bad way. Simply say "Hey bro, you had your chance. We love you. Youre still an owner and we think no less of you. We love that you tried because dad wanted you to. However we should try something different to see if it gets better results". |
The key part there is owner. While they can replace mitch with another employee, one or more of the owners still have to have final say. If not Jim, who?
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22849
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | This is the effect of Kobe's retirement. Jim and Mitch are finally feeling what it is to not have Kobe take all the heat off of you. Spotlight is finally where it should've been. Jim cant hide in Kobe's shadow anymore. He's getting exposed. |
LOL! The effects of losing your hall of fame player? Yeah those clowns will now suffer! Serves them right for giving LA what they wanted for 20 yrs. Why can't they learn from the Bulls? Look at how many titles the Bulls have won since MJ retired. They don't miss a beat. Miami is also well on their way to another title after Lebron bolted. Jim and Mitch are clowns.
Good thing you're not blind like many around here. I'd like to follow you to which ever new team you want to root for. Go right ahead, you walk first, I'll be right behind. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't recall all these complaints about Mitch/jim when the team was winning rings. But that's just me. Sometimes take the good with the bad. |
When they were winning rings, Jerry Buss was still alive and credit was being given to Phil, Mitch and Jerry Buss.
Jim Buss may have been part of the FO but his role was clearly not as big as today. |
If you truly believe that Jim may have been part of the FO, you are admitting that you are criticizing without having a rational idea about what was going on. We will consider your opinions accordingly. |
You're parsing a correct wording. He's not saying may as in might, any more than if I say, "your screen name may be venturalakersfan, but that doesn't mean you actually live there" that I'm disputing your screen name. It's just how such a sentence is constructed. |
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess it comes down to interpretation of the word.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Ironic how some will state that Phil Jackson is a poor executive, lucked into drafting Porzingis, yet all at the same time say that Rose and Melo (Phil's 2 main moves outside of Porzingis) help make the draft pick into a better player. Just 5 months ago it was all about how Porzingis wouldn't be able to play well because of Rose and Melo hogging all the plays. Now it's that they help create more space and shots for him (they probably would, I don't know since I don't follow their games regularly).
Could it be just that someone who has won 11 rings knows the ins and outs of a basketball game and how to put together a decent roster? Maybe he in fact knew that his prized draft pick would thrive with a coaching style and star players that drew attention? That's a far cry from saying the guys the best, but he certainly is way better than Jimbo.
Jimbo needs to be replaced. Period. Phil can stay in NY, retire or whatever. I don't care. Jimbo needs to go, and Mitch can go with him. This is a mockery. Constant losing and no talent outside of some elite draft picks. An idiot could do this. Literally, an idiot could lose games all the time and draft decently. Yes, decently. We made some great picks in the 2nd round/late 1st, and credit to us. But our lottery picks have been not any superior or outstanding than any other teams in the same positioning. Even with a big coaching change, the results are same. We're one of the worst teams in the league, again. How is this acceptable?
Hope Jeannie cleans house. Get in someone from OKC, San Antonio, or whereever. I don't care. Enough of the moves like signing Luol freaking Deng to 80 million dollar contracts as your main free agent moves. You don't see San Antonio doing that. I'll bet top dollar San Antonio will never ever do a move like that even after the slip into full rebuild mode. You just can't make moves like that. Abysmal. |
So no talent outside of the talent they have on the team? And you and others still don't get it, the Lakers are a Buss family organization, they can bring in someone from San Antonio, Golden State or Fairbanks Alaska, but that person will still be working at the whim of a Buss kid. They are ownership and they will be the ones signing off on any signing or deal, and if it is one they don't want, Pop himself wouldn't get it done.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | most of the other teams around the league have a star they are building around.....we have none and now the cba just made it harder.....are front office has to change.....they are horrible. |
So another front office would change the CBA? I don't follow your supposed logic.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | The understanding was that Jeannie would need support from her siblings. Initially they all agreed while Jim is unproven that he deserved a certain time frame. That time frame were these 4 years. Now maybe her siblings will never give her the authority to fire Jim for Phil. I could buy into that theory, although I have personally read alot of stuff contradicting that.
What I do not believe is that her siblings would not support Jim being booted (and Kupchak with him) for someone who actually qualifed based on merit not personal relationship. I do think there was a clear time line Jim gave them and his most recent interview showed me he knows he's in troube this summer. If Jeannie pushes it this summer, I think she gets support from her siblings to replace Jim.
Now we'll see if it was always about just Phil for Jeannie or actually hiring the best man for the job. We'll see. Jeannie needs to step up and back up her words (and my somewhat support for her). I've always felt she was more than Phil. I think Lakers are enriched in her DNA. If so, step up and make the move that's neccessary. Get someone in who has a proven record as a FO executive, who is not at all related to you or in a personal relationship with you. |
There are 6 Buss siblings; Johnny, Jim, Jeanie, Janie, Jesse, and Joey.
Which 4 will vote for Jim's ouster? |
Why wouldn't all of them vote to out him if we keep going on this trajectory? |
This isn't Father Knows Best. It is a family born into wealth and influence, with their own agendas. If you think that recent election was contentious, it pales in comparison to rich, spoiled family members fighting for what they want. The success of the Lakers is important, but secondary to their own wants.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | The understanding was that Jeannie would need support from her siblings. Initially they all agreed while Jim is unproven that he deserved a certain time frame. That time frame were these 4 years. Now maybe her siblings will never give her the authority to fire Jim for Phil. I could buy into that theory, although I have personally read alot of stuff contradicting that.
What I do not believe is that her siblings would not support Jim being booted (and Kupchak with him) for someone who actually qualifed based on merit not personal relationship. I do think there was a clear time line Jim gave them and his most recent interview showed me he knows he's in troube this summer. If Jeannie pushes it this summer, I think she gets support from her siblings to replace Jim.
Now we'll see if it was always about just Phil for Jeannie or actually hiring the best man for the job. We'll see. Jeannie needs to step up and back up her words (and my somewhat support for her). I've always felt she was more than Phil. I think Lakers are enriched in her DNA. If so, step up and make the move that's neccessary. Get someone in who has a proven record as a FO executive, who is not at all related to you or in a personal relationship with you. |
There are 6 Buss siblings; Johnny, Jim, Jeanie, Janie, Jesse, and Joey.
Which 4 will vote for Jim's ouster? |
Why wouldn't all of them vote to out him if we keep going on this trajectory? |
I don't pretend or act like I would know what each would do. But what you said is what normal rational people would do. And not in a mean or bad way. Simply say "Hey bro, you had your chance. We love you. Youre still an owner and we think no less of you. We love that you tried because dad wanted you to. However we should try something different to see if it gets better results". |
But which of the Buss kids would you trust to make the final call on behalf of the Buss family?
Johnny is 60, and after dabbling with the Lazers and Sparks has not pursued a greater role within the Lakers organization. And he supports Jim.
Jim is 57 and has worked in the Laker front office since 1998 and was hand-picked and groomed by Jerry Buss to be his successor.
Jeanie is 55, Team President with no experience with player personnel.
Janie is 53, married with children living in Temecula where she runs the Lakers Youth Foundation.
Joey is 32, President of the D-Fenders and Jeanie's alternate on the NBA Board of Governors.
Jesse is 24 and runs the scouting department with Ryan West. Promising future, but not ready to take the reins anytime soon. |
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1hu2ren3dui4
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 15403
Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I still don't understand Mozgov and Deng. A few years maybe. But 4 years a piece? Unless I'm missing something that just seems like a lack of a plan. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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It was 4 years or you don't get the guy you want. Teams were playing with Monopoly money last offseason, the players had all of the leverage.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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so if we didn't give mozgov 4 years, we wouldn't get him. we'd be awful without him....
what a shame that would have been. we made a move just to make a move with mozgov. i called it, and so did a lot of others. and we were right. he'll be unproductive or hurt the next 2 years and we'll trade him. that's how his story will end. dumb signing.
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