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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
levon wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
levon wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Bad roster construct. Losing happens with young players, it's happening to every young team in the league. I get that. This is a poorly put together team and it shook my confidence in Jim and Mitch, which was ironclad despite a couple hitches prior to this offseason.


Yes, I posted in another thread that the 4 teams rebuilding with quality youth (us, Wolves, 76ers and Nuggets) have won at a 35% clip this season. Youth doesn't win, yet some here expect it to. It takes development and it takes time. And the "we are Laker fans and we deserve the best" argument won't change that. Our young players are progressing, I would hope we would be happy about that.


I'm not talking about stars and this doesn't have to do with Laker Exceptionalism.

We have no rim protector despite a crowded big rotation, and three guards who do the exact same thing, and three players who don't play at all.

That's a bad construct. I'm not talking about young players or complaining about losing. It's a poorly constructed roster. I even said that I understand all young teams really suck right now in the league!

The dearth of rim protection is real. After reading fiendish's article, I understand that having a great rim protector wouldn't solve all of our defensive woes since our guards are still giving little to no effort. But at this point I don't see our guards picking it up, and our big isn't picking it up. So we have no D basically


Exactly. Like I was saying in the Randle thread, this whole thing doesn't work unless we have a rim protector at either, at least, PF or C, or if the rest of our rotation is Kawhi Leonard clones.


I get it about needing a rim protector, but for me the issue is that we wouldn't be crying for a rim protector as much if our guards weren't giving up dribble penetration.

Defensively our guards are not, and my bet will never be, good defensive players. So, get all the rim protection you want...he's going to be busy, busy, busy.


Yeah, it's all bad. But defense at the front court is more important than guards being able to hold it down. I'd say at least one of the two need to be decent defenders on a good team. But even a team with two good defenders at guard, if your PF & C can't defend... You're still screwed.

Yeah I'd argue it's much harder to nullify the effect of an elite big defender than an elite guard defender, because you'd essentially have to draw the big out of the paint with a stretch 5 or something.


Balance seems to be the key these days. Yes, you need a big who defends the rim, and preferably can switch or at least hard hedge out away from the paint, but you also need wing defenders who can cover ground and challenge a variety of players in rotation. That's part of the reason Mozgov and Hibbert look so lost in our defense, because no one helps the helper.


Yep, and its very easy to see the validity in all the points made. I can't disagree or debate any of the points. Bottom line is we need defensive help in almost every area.
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laker4life
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Bad roster construct. Losing happens with young players, it's happening to every young team in the league. I get that. This is a poorly put together team and it shook my confidence in Jim and Mitch, which was ironclad despite a couple hitches prior to this offseason.


Yes, I posted in another thread that the 4 teams rebuilding with quality youth (us, Wolves, 76ers and Nuggets) have won at a 35% clip this season. Youth doesn't win, yet some here expect it to. It takes development and it takes time. And the "we are Laker fans and we deserve the best" argument won't change that. Our young players are progressing, I would hope we would be happy about that.


Today I saw regression.

The FO needs to ask if this team will really contend for the playoffs next year.

If not, than it will be going on five years since not making the playoffs and the FO will definitely need to change.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Hopefully whoever makes that choice does so after evaluating more than one game. The young players are progressing with the possible exception of Clarkson. That is what we need to see.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hopefully whoever makes that choice does so after evaluating more than one game. The young players are progressing with the possible exception of Clarkson. That is what we need to see.


Mitch bought up expectations for the team before the season:

He said he wants to see entertaining basketball, and the young guys Improving, I think it's easy to see that the expectations haven't been meant. 1 game we look exciting (re Pacers game) then there is games were we see fugly basketball such as the games with Dallas this year and of course.. the Texas style beat down by the Spurs.

When a team is progressing I can live with losing but we are not. We win 1 game and then end up on a multiple game losing streak that's not making progress that is taking 1 step and then 3 steps back.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject:

We still have the time to right the ship and end the season on a high note but the inconsistency is annoying I can't remember the last time we were on a 5 game winning streak.

FO needs to either accept a full rebuild or bring in players who can help us during the summer, these guys are gonna need 3-4 years and good luck telling Laker fans to be patient.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hopefully whoever makes that choice does so after evaluating more than one game. The young players are progressing with the possible exception of Clarkson. That is what we need to see.


Mitch bought up expectations for the team before the season:

He said he wants to see entertaining basketball, and the young guys Improving, I think it's easy to see that the expectations haven't been meant. 1 game we look exciting (re Pacers game) then there is games were we see fugly basketball such as the games with Dallas this year and of course.. the Texas style beat down by the Spurs.

When a team is progressing I can live with losing but we are not. We win 1 game and then end up on a multiple game losing streak that's not making progress that is taking 1 step and then 3 steps back.


Mitch can have whatever expectations he wants but the reality is that Jeanie does not want to start her era as CEO with 4 years of cellar dwelling.

I find it unlikely that both Jim and Mitch are here beyond this season
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hopefully whoever makes that choice does so after evaluating more than one game. The young players are progressing with the possible exception of Clarkson. That is what we need to see.



On Nov. 30, our record is 10-10.

Since then, we are 6-22. That is regression.

It is not one game.

Today was an important game.

On Friday, almost every team above them lost so the Lakers could still compete for the 8th spot.

Instead, they were embarrassed by a team with a worse record.

At least be competitive. This was not a back to back game or the 5th game of a long road trip.
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BIKinstonFan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Lakers will finish buttom 3 & changes will happen

At this point I don't care if both Jim/Mitch are fired
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
We still have the time to right the ship and end the season on a high note but the inconsistency is annoying I can't remember the last time we were on a 5 game winning streak.

FO needs to either accept a full rebuild or bring in players who can help us during the summer, these guys are gonna need 3-4 years and good luck telling Laker fans to be patient.


As long as Jim is not in charge, I think fans could tolerate another 3-4 years.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hopefully whoever makes that choice does so after evaluating more than one game. The young players are progressing with the possible exception of Clarkson. That is what we need to see.



On Nov. 30, our record is 10-10.

Since then, we are 6-22. That is regression.

It is not one game.

Today was an important game.

On Friday, almost every team above them lost so the Lakers could still compete for the 8th spot.

Instead, they were embarrassed by a team with a worse record.

At least be competitive. This was not a back to back game or the 5th game of a long road trip.


Today's loss was unacceptable, I agree. But the 6-22 regression stems directly from team injuries. If you look at lineup data, our core bench lineups and our core starting lineup (Russell, Young, Deng, Randle, Moz) are actually quite good.

But our mixes are mostly terrible. Makes sense; continuity is underrated. So once injuries struck, you got more blending of lineups which has caused our recent free fall.

It's a simple explanation and it accounts for basically everything. And it fits the eye test.
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h2omike
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject:

Well if I am going to piss and moan it is the front office signing big 4 year deals to Mozgov and Deng and them giving us Jack Crap out there on the floor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject:

I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.


I am a huge pessimist when it comes to this FO. I barely trust their judgement in the offseason besides their ability to draft well. That said, I think the young guys have been improving well enough, it's everything around them that is bringing us down.

Ingram - looked terrible to start, now looks like he'll probably be a star
Russell - looked great to start, got injured, will probably be a star
Randle - up and down up and down up and down, will probably be a rotation player
Clarkson - he could be so much better, but he's brought down by a low IQ, still I see him as a perennial top bench scorer
Nance - could be the glue guy who leads our defense for years to come
Zubac - think we can all agree that this guy will be our starting C sooner rather than later

But who surrounds these guys?

Calderon - trash
Huertas - trash
Deng - usually trash
Mozgov - usually trash
Nick - selfish
Lou - selfish
Black - not bad
Trob - not bad
MWP - lol

Blame the FO or not, we're going to be in a (bleep) situation for years to come.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.


I am a huge pessimist when it comes to this FO. I barely trust their judgement in the offseason besides their ability to draft well. That said, I think the young guys have been improving well enough, it's everything around them that is bringing us down.

Ingram - looked terrible to start, now looks like he'll probably be a star
Russell - looked great to start, got injured, will probably be a star
Randle - up and down up and down up and down, will probably be a rotation player
Clarkson - he could be so much better, but he's brought down by a low IQ, still I see him as a perennial top bench scorer
Nance - could be the glue guy who leads our defense for years to come
Zubac - think we can all agree that this guy will be our starting C sooner rather than later

But who surrounds these guys?

Calderon - trash
Huertas - trash
Deng - usually trash
Mozgov - usually trash
Nick - selfish
Lou - selfish
Black - not bad
Trob - not bad
MWP - lol

Blame the FO or not, we're going to be in a (bleep) situation for years to come.


Yeah we have so many misfits on the roster that it's hard to gauge on the young players but I don't think any of them have made a Impression yet.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.

Russell's stats are across the board better this year... except shooting (surprisingly)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Jim Buss needs to go and Mitch Kupchak's time as a GM here should be over. Thanks for the memories, you had your shot at rebuilding, failed, now GTFO.

Anyone who wants to argue that Kupchak is doing a good job needs his head examined. Unless his plan was to pay 134 million to two terrible FA signings and stealth tank, he's been a failure.

Lakers should pry a forward thinking GM that can relate with the new wave of NBA players and knows how to prioritize future assets.

Of course, the Buss kids are too dumb to hire someone like that, resting on their past father's glories and thinking Laker mystique will save the day.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.


I am a huge pessimist when it comes to this FO. I barely trust their judgement in the offseason besides their ability to draft well. That said, I think the young guys have been improving well enough, it's everything around them that is bringing us down.

Ingram - looked terrible to start, now looks like he'll probably be a star
Russell - looked great to start, got injured, will probably be a star
Randle - up and down up and down up and down, will probably be a rotation player
Clarkson - he could be so much better, but he's brought down by a low IQ, still I see him as a perennial top bench scorer
Nance - could be the glue guy who leads our defense for years to come
Zubac - think we can all agree that this guy will be our starting C sooner rather than later

But who surrounds these guys?

Calderon - trash
Huertas - trash
Deng - usually trash
Mozgov - usually trash
Nick - selfish
Lou - selfish
Black - not bad
Trob - not bad
MWP - lol

Blame the FO or not, we're going to be in a (bleep) situation for years to come.


Which is pretty much why us getting that top 3 pick is the only real shot we'll have at adding another star unless it's a trade of 2 or more of our young players. (Or FA this year but I'm not banking on Hayward even considering us). When Jimbo blew his load on Mozzy and Deng, we put all the onus on the young guys developing into stars. Unless those young guys hit their ceilings, we're pretty much stuck as a treadmill team once their extensions start kicking in.

I will say that we've got a solid foundation of young talent but it seems like we haven't found that 1 guy who is already approaching superstar territory like Embiid or KAT.

DLO has amazing potential but I'm less high on him becoming one of those guys than I was this past summer.

Ingram looks like he could be a Paul George level player.

Randle looks like a Odom level player. Inconsistent but unique

Nance is that super glue guy that every coach drools over

Zubac is still super raw but he looks like he can be a solid to good starter one day.

Clarkson just needs space from Nick and Lou-- feels like he's picked up on that mentality of "buckets".

Black is a good backup. No issues with him but he's easily replaceable


In the end, I just don't trust in Jim and Mitch to use that cap space this summer effectively and unless we want to punt til 18 and hope DMC or PG13 turn down $200,000,000, we need to use that money VERY wisely.

Mitch is a good GM just not a visionary... everything good we have now is because every other plan failed-- Nash/Dwight, Pau walking for nothing, LMA and Melo turning us down, etc.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I also don't think the FO has seen enough Improvement by the young players.

Ingram - is improving
Randle - slightly better then last year
Russsell - same as last year
Clarkson - worse then last year

We needed someone to show they can be a star and it hasn't happen so no what Mitch wanted to see isn't what the team is showing, so that means changes need to be made.

Russell's stats are across the board better this year... except shooting (surprisingly)


That probably has to do with the injuries he's had to deal with, yeah I think Russell is better this year then last year and I think that injury he had early in the season, slowed him down.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Jim Buss needs to go and Mitch Kupchak's time as a GM here should be over. Thanks for the memories, you had your shot at rebuilding, failed, now (bleep).

Anyone who wants to argue that Kupchak is doing a good job needs his head examined. Unless his plan was to pay 134 million to two terrible FA signings and stealth tank, he's been a failure.

Lakers should pry a forward thinking GM that can relate with the new wave of NBA players and knows how to prioritize future assets.

Of course, the Buss kids are too dumb to hire someone like that, resting on their past father's glories and thinking Laker mystique will save the day.


49 point loss.

We seem to be breaking a lot of the wrong records in the Jim Buss era.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Jim Buss needs to go and Mitch Kupchak's time as a GM here should be over. Thanks for the memories, you had your shot at rebuilding, failed, now (bleep).

Anyone who wants to argue that Kupchak is doing a good job needs his head examined. Unless his plan was to pay 134 million to two terrible FA signings and stealth tank, he's been a failure.

Lakers should pry a forward thinking GM that can relate with the new wave of NBA players and knows how to prioritize future assets.

Of course, the Buss kids are too dumb to hire someone like that, resting on their past father's glories and thinking Laker mystique will save the day.


amen!!!!!! they need to get over that. Jeanie needs to make this hers and make smart decisions like she does on the business side and move forward.....enough of the past. just like you said the front office failed....lets move on and start winning.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject:

This will be the 4th straight year not making the playoffs. Jim should not be involved in basketball operations in any capacity. The only reason Mitch has a job is because of Jim. We need a new GM and new VP of basketball operations. Jim and Mitch need to go.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
This will be the 4th straight year not making the playoffs. Jim should not be involved in basketball operations in any capacity. The only reason Mitch has a job is because of Jim. We need a new GM and new VP of basketball operations. Jim and Mitch need to go.


If it comes down to Jim being such an obstacle that it requires both he and Mitch to step aside I'm all for it. I think Ryan and Jesse probably deserve the gig given how well the scouting department has fared.
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