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| Total Votes : 416 |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17670
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 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Today was my first time watching Ball in the 2nd half. I see what you guys mean when you say he is low usage. Today I think it was to a fault. He had 22 points but didn't score like the last 12 minutes of the game. Most possessions he wasn't even involved in the play.
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AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^Holiday and Alford tend to chuck as soon as they touch the ball. They are like the college version of JC/Lou/Nick haha. |
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AC Green's V-Card
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Today was my first time watching Ball in the 2nd half. I see what you guys mean when you say he is low usage. Today I think it was to a fault. He had 22 points but didn't score like the last 12 minutes of the game. Most possessions he wasn't even involved in the play. |
Reminds me a bit about how Magic Johnson had to take over the lead scoring role for the Lakers when Kareem was on the decline before the '86-'87 season. Riley came to him and told him he was top dog now. Magic took four more shots a game and averaged the highest point total of his career (23.9 a game). Ended up winning regular season MVP. At any point, he could've flipped that switch, but he preferred playing the role of distributor. Ball is in that same mold. |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Today was my first time watching Ball in the 2nd half. I see what you guys mean when you say he is low usage. Today I think it was to a fault. He had 22 points but didn't score like the last 12 minutes of the game. Most possessions he wasn't even involved in the play. |
Think that was part of the defensive strategy of Arizona and it worked. Make Ball the scorer, stick tight to the shooters, and UCLA can't run because shots are contested.
Ball made a more concerted effort, but teammates had to make contested shots. Arizona was way too athletic, strong, AND had stretch 5s AND they hit 3s.
It took all of that to beat UCLA.
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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Dave20
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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That's the player I wanted as well. I mentioned him a few weeks back but he's exactly the role player this team needs. |
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Man I reallllllllly want Fultz
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Dave20
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| I think the Lakers brass would choose Ball over Fultz. |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | I think the Lakers brass would choose Ball over Fultz. |
Fultz is my favorite prospect of the two, he's the best prospect of the draft, but Lonzo Ball is a TON of fun and I'd be happy with either.
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Dave20
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| After watching both I prefer Ball. He's more versatile defensively because of his size, more unselfish, and has a much higher IQ. |
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The Lebrons
Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| I love Fultz, but I'm leaning Ball now. He has elite athleticism and I think he adds something we really lack in that regard. His ability to pass and create shots would be great for all the young guys. |
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PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | After watching both I prefer Ball. He's more versatile defensively because of his size, more unselfish, and has a much higher IQ. |
Yup...and fits our young core perfectly on top of all of that.
I see everything that everybody else sees when watching fultz, but I also see the well contested shots that he makes at the ncaa level. I wonder if he can make those same shots with better length, athleticism, and defense at the next level. If so, great you have an allstar, but if not it changes what he can do out there on the court a lot. Still a great piece to add though but IMO balls the better player. |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ball can play 1 or the 2. Fultz strikes me as always a 1, I don't see him moving off ball and sniping teams like Ball has the capability of doing, I think Fultz is a guy who will need the ball in his hands most of the time. Ball is not. |
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PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Ball can play 1 or the 2. Fultz strikes me as always a 1, I don't see him moving off ball and sniping teams like Ball has the capability of doing, I think Fultz is a guy who will need the ball in his hands most of the time. Ball is not. |
Another great point |
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TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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still not gonna look up any highlights until I know we have the pick
it's gonna suck wheN WE LOSE IT
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7228
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable)
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lkjhf
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 1166
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
ball's straight line speed with the ball in his hand/bringing it up the floor can be extremely fast
he's not westbrook but nobody is. there is no athletic comparison really, he's a unique player but he can get up really high for oops and has great body control at the rim |
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Yong
Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 9024
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable) |
Ball is like the perfect 1/2 prospect, but for his extremely short wingspan |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable) |
Ball fits 2 guard better than Russell actually.
You watch how Ball plays the 1 on UCLA he is most definitely one of the least ball dominant 1's you'll see at the NCAA level, his style strikes of a 2 that can pass the ball and understand a 1, much like Harden did. More so than a primary point guard which is where Russell fit in.
I think you have it backwards.
I think the envision of Ball being set up off ball for wide open threes off a Russell pass is much more what people would envision as opposed to Ball handling it primarily and driving and dishing.
It suits Ball's playstyle much more at the next level to have a guy like Russell setting him up off ball and him handling the secondary passing roles in 'this' offense. Russell is the guy who penetrates to the lane and kills a team from mid off the pick and roll. Ball is the guy we run the elevator and horns set for who gets the wide open shots off the screens who will occasionally handle the ball and find guys in the right situation.
It fits our style very perfectly if we're going from that aspect.
So the ball movement of a
D'Angelo Russell
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Center
lineup, would definitely get high percentage shots and always find guys for the best opportunities. It's how the lineup plays defense that will factor in, within the long run. Ball is very good at scouting when to steal the ball off another player and that can he played off of and he can play the passing lanes, so that's something to think about.
Though I think if the Lakers landed Ball, that Clarkson would be on the way out and Ball would be made the backup 1 till he got the starting 2 spot, which, depending on who the Lakers got in free agency to be the starting 2 (be it swaggy or someone else) would factor into that. However, that means Clarkson could/would be moved, likely on draft day or at some point during the off-season, depending.
But defensively, Ball with nearly 2 steals and 1 block a game for his position is impressive for what he'd be asked to do at the 2.
Fultz gets a LOT of praise here for his 1.4 blocks a game and 1.6 steals
Ball gets little to none for his near 1 block a game(0.9) and 1.8 steals
So defensively I think Ball has quite the upside too.
Ball is also shooting 69% on his 2 pointers but whooooo wants to talk about that  |
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PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable) |
Ball fits 2 guard better than Russell actually.
You watch how Ball plays the 1 on UCLA he is most definitely one of the least ball dominant 1's you'll see at the NCAA level, his style strikes of a 2 that can pass the ball and understand a 1, much like Harden did. More so than a primary point guard which is where Russell fit in.
I think you have it backwards.
I think the envision of Ball being set up off ball for wide open threes off a Russell pass is much more what people would envision as opposed to Ball handling it primarily and driving and dishing.
It suits Ball's playstyle much more at the next level to have a guy like Russell setting him up off ball and him handling the secondary passing roles in 'this' offense. Russell is the guy who penetrates to the lane and kills a team from mid off the pick and roll. Ball is the guy we run the elevator and horns set for who gets the wide open shots off the screens who will occasionally handle the ball and find guys in the right situation.
It fits our style very perfectly if we're going from that aspect.
So the ball movement of a
D'Angelo Russell
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Center
lineup, would definitely get high percentage shots and always find guys for the best opportunities. It's how the lineup plays defense that will factor in, within the long run. Ball is very good at scouting when to steal the ball off another player and that can he played off of and he can play the passing lanes, so that's something to think about.
Though I think if the Lakers landed Ball, that Clarkson would be on the way out and Ball would be made the backup 1 till he got the starting 2 spot, which, depending on who the Lakers got in free agency to be the starting 2 (be it swaggy or someone else) would factor into that. However, that means Clarkson could/would be moved, likely on draft day or at some point during the off-season, depending.
But defensively, Ball with nearly 2 steals and 1 block a game for his position is impressive for what he'd be asked to do at the 2.
Fultz gets a LOT of praise here for his 1.4 blocks a game and 1.6 steals
Ball gets little to none for his near 1 block a game(0.9) and 1.8 steals
So defensively I think Ball has quite the upside too.
Ball is also shooting 69% on his 2 pointers but whooooo wants to talk about that |
I think ball and Russell would be interchangeable at the 1/2.
I like the way ball dictates pace and likes to get up and down the court, but I prefer Russell with the ball in his hands in the half-court.
It's funny because one of my biggest issues with Russell is that he doesn't get us enough easy baskets in transition (which he didn't have an issue with in college).
As far as clarkson is concerned I would keep him. I'd have Russell or ball in the game at all times. Start Russell at the 1 like you said and ball at the 2. Then, when Russell sits slide ball to the 1 and bring clarkson in at the two and crank up the pace !
Ball
Clarkson
Nance
Could be exciting to watch at balls pace |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable) |
Ball fits 2 guard better than Russell actually.
You watch how Ball plays the 1 on UCLA he is most definitely one of the least ball dominant 1's you'll see at the NCAA level, his style strikes of a 2 that can pass the ball and understand a 1, much like Harden did. More so than a primary point guard which is where Russell fit in.
I think you have it backwards.
I think the envision of Ball being set up off ball for wide open threes off a Russell pass is much more what people would envision as opposed to Ball handling it primarily and driving and dishing.
It suits Ball's playstyle much more at the next level to have a guy like Russell setting him up off ball and him handling the secondary passing roles in 'this' offense. Russell is the guy who penetrates to the lane and kills a team from mid off the pick and roll. Ball is the guy we run the elevator and horns set for who gets the wide open shots off the screens who will occasionally handle the ball and find guys in the right situation.
It fits our style very perfectly if we're going from that aspect.
So the ball movement of a
D'Angelo Russell
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Center
lineup, would definitely get high percentage shots and always find guys for the best opportunities. It's how the lineup plays defense that will factor in, within the long run. Ball is very good at scouting when to steal the ball off another player and that can he played off of and he can play the passing lanes, so that's something to think about.
Though I think if the Lakers landed Ball, that Clarkson would be on the way out and Ball would be made the backup 1 till he got the starting 2 spot, which, depending on who the Lakers got in free agency to be the starting 2 (be it swaggy or someone else) would factor into that. However, that means Clarkson could/would be moved, likely on draft day or at some point during the off-season, depending.
But defensively, Ball with nearly 2 steals and 1 block a game for his position is impressive for what he'd be asked to do at the 2.
Fultz gets a LOT of praise here for his 1.4 blocks a game and 1.6 steals
Ball gets little to none for his near 1 block a game(0.9) and 1.8 steals
So defensively I think Ball has quite the upside too.
Ball is also shooting 69% on his 2 pointers but whooooo wants to talk about that |
I think ball and Russell would be interchangeable at the 1/2.
I like the way ball dictates pace and likes to get up and down the court, but I prefer Russell with the ball in his hands in the half-court.
It's funny because one of my biggest issues with Russell is that he doesn't get us enough easy baskets in transition (which he didn't have an issue with in college).
As far as clarkson is concerned I would keep him. I'd have Russell or ball in the game at all times. Start Russell at the 1 like you said and ball at the 2. Then, when Russell sits slide ball to the 1 and bring clarkson in at the two and crank up the pace !
Ball
Clarkson
Nance
Could be exciting to watch at balls pace |
Williams would be more reliable than Clarkson in that role. |
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PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe...I guess I'm thinking about long term. Williams isn't in the teams long term plans. I'm sure clarksons scoring will go up when Williams isn't taking shots away from him and he has a playmaker like ball next to him.
I gave it a little more thought and ball is a PG through and through but he is better audited to defend 2s than Russell.
I also don't think it would hurt Russell's game at all to slide over to the 2 offensively. He can still run the half court offense from there allowing ball to dictate temp from the 1.
Ball
Russell/clarkson
Ingram
Randle/nance
zubac
I think our core would be set and ready to go head to head with the Phillys and Minnesotas talent wise. |
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LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Does Ball have athletic or speed limitations? If so, we don't need another guard that can't defend... |
This is not a knock on Dlo at all but ball is way quicker, better athlete, taller, can dunk in game with EASE . Not only do I want ball, but then we can move dlo to what I think he is, which is a 2 guard.
(oh yeah, and make clarkson expendable) |
Ball is like the perfect 1/2 prospect, but for his extremely short wingspan |
Ball's wingspan measurements are from 2014 when he was listed at 6'3.5. |
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lkjhf
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 1166
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