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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
THANK YOU! |
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SpunkieLakerCat
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 1858
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
THANK YOU! |
Yes Thank you!!!!!!!
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| SpunkieLakerCat wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
THANK YOU! |
Yes Thank you!!!!!!! |
Can't argue with that. Excellent post |
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: |
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In defense of Mitch..
positives =
- acquiring Jeremy Lin with a 1st round pick attached
- signing Ed Davis
- trading for Kent Bazemore
- getting Tarik Black
- signing Lou Williams to a 3 year, 21m deal
- signing Nick Young for 5m per year (didn't look good last year, looks great this year)
- acquiring Jose Calderon and getting two 2nd round picks to do so
- all our draft picks (dlo, ingram, randle and especially nance, clarkson, zubac)
mistakes =
- mozgov and deng
- letting bazemore go (although he's making soooo much money now anyways)
- not signing isaiah thomas (but 28 other teams made that mistake too)
- drafting anthony brown (but was only a 2nd round)
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Sounds like Magic would be nothing but a help in recruiting FAs. He sounds like he understands players |
Magic should be the one that we as fans hear from. When we draft a player he needs to run the press conference, same as if we sign a FA. The less we see of any Busses the better.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| - pursing Carmelo Anthony over Kyle Lowry |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: |
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We did pursue Lowry.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Sounds like Magic would be nothing but a help in recruiting FAs. He sounds like he understands players |
Magic should be the one that we as fans hear from. When we draft a player he needs to run the press conference, same as if we sign a FA. The less we see of any Busses the better. |
looks like we're making progress. "yes we can"
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Of course it is mainly Jeanie, since Jim is more of a recluse. We barely see him as is.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Krispy Kreme
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Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Agreed
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Dominating every day. |
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frank70
Sixth Man
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
To 1.) 3rd tier free agents won't help much. Most of the posters here disliked the signings from the beginning. Money isn't the issue - length of contracts is. I pay Mozgov and Deng 22 millions a year - but only for two years. Knowing that by then extensions of Randle and Russell kick in. FO must have thought that those two would be real contributors. Otherwise they wouldn't have offered those deals - i hope that was the thought process, everything else would be insane (134 millions for veteran benchwarmers). These signings were an absolute failure - and someone has to take responsibility. Who other than Mitch and Jim?
To 3.) Giving up 3 first rounders for an unrestricted free agent is a steep price. Nash didn't want to sign for the minimum - i can understand that. But what leverage had the Suns? Nash was unrestricted. At least i cannot understand why Mich didn't insist on better protection. Getting Nash plus the deal for Howard was absolutely okay in my book. But we had the wrong coach for the team and we should have traded Pau to balance out the team better. Again: Who is responsible?
Last edited by frank70 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| frank70 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
To 1.) 3rd tier free agents won't help much. Most of the posters here disliked the signings from the beginning. Money isn't the issue - length of contracts is. I pay Mozgov and Deng 22 millions a year - but only for two years. Knowing that by then extensions of Randle and Russell kick in. FO must have thought that those two would be real contributors. Otherwise they wouldn't have offered those deals - i hope that was the thought process, everything else would be insane (134 millions for veteran benchwarmers). These signings were an absolute failure - and someone has to take responsibility. Who other than Mitch and Jim?
To 3.) Giving up 3 first rounders for an unrestricted free agent is a steep price. Nash didn't want to sign for the minimum - i can understand that. But what leverage had the Suns. Nash was unrestricted. At least i cannot understand why Mich didn't insist on better protection. |
I agree with Ziggy's post that it was a homerun move to assemble a championship contender around Kobe... what other allstar PG can you get and at what price during that time? |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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You don't pay Mozgov and Deng $22 mil a year for two years if they won't agree to it. What then? Back to signing one year players, once again destroying team continuity only to get shot down in free agency the next offseason? Because we have seen how well that has worked, let's give this plan a chance.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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frank70
Sixth Man
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | frank70 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | Except for the drafts the FO decisions for the past 5 years have been bad.
And the Mosgov and Deng signings at 40M a year for four years. For two bench players? Is this competence?
Is the 4 FR draft picks for Nash and Howard who hardly played for the Lakers a show of competence? Nash had already played many years and Howard did not like the Lakers. Why gamble the future?
What was Mich and Jim thinking?
Even at an advisory capacity Magic if taken seriously would have helped.
Deng and Mosgov should have been given shorter terms. And maybe even 50M year but just for a year. To scratch the itch in Mich and Jims.
Maybe the younger West at GM would work. But J. West is older now. |
1. They swung for the homerun in free agency and struck out 3 years in a row. I think even as a fanbase, we were all guilty of being a bit delusional in thinking a star would sign here. Reality has sunk in. We aren't an attractive situation for free agents. But at the time, we all still thought there was a chance. And eventually we all started begging for the FO to stop wasting time on the stars, and start looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents to get out of the rut. Most fans will try to deny it now, but that's the nature of revisionist history.
2. I don't know anyone who was opposed to the Dwight trade at the time. We all knew Bynum was falling apart and Dwight was still the best center in the league. A few here and there will say they never wanted him. Doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority of us were anticipating the Bynum-Dwight trade for years.
3. Nash - we had an expiring TPE that we acquired as a result of being forced to trade Odom due to the trade veto. We needed a PG badly. We were over the cap and still hoping to make one more run at a championship. It made all the sense in the world at the time. But again, fans have revisionist history.
4. Why do people here keep thinking Jerry would take over as full time GM? He's said countless times over the years he'd never do anything that would encroach on Mitch as the GM. Logo is a crown jewel in the Laker kingdom. Even if he's back as a part time advisor he'd be the most valuable FO asset we'd have. I'd personally roll out the red carpet and drop rose petals on the ground he walks on.
5. Enough has been said about Mozgov/Deng. For me, the whining has become more annoying then watching them play, and that's saying a lot. |
To 1.) 3rd tier free agents won't help much. Most of the posters here disliked the signings from the beginning. Money isn't the issue - length of contracts is. I pay Mozgov and Deng 22 millions a year - but only for two years. Knowing that by then extensions of Randle and Russell kick in. FO must have thought that those two would be real contributors. Otherwise they wouldn't have offered those deals - i hope that was the thought process, everything else would be insane (134 millions for veteran benchwarmers). These signings were an absolute failure - and someone has to take responsibility. Who other than Mitch and Jim?
To 3.) Giving up 3 first rounders for an unrestricted free agent is a steep price. Nash didn't want to sign for the minimum - i can understand that. But what leverage had the Suns. Nash was unrestricted. At least i cannot understand why Mich didn't insist on better protection. |
I agree with Ziggy's post that it was a homerun move to assemble a championship contender around Kobe... what other allstar PG can you get and at what price during that time? |
Getting Nash was absolutely okay. But those protections? I don't really get what leverage the Suns had. I mean 3 first rounders aren't traded that often. And then for an UFA with the age of 36? Very steep price but the last run for Dr. Buss - i understand. |
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frank70
Sixth Man
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | You don't pay Mozgov and Deng $22 mil a year for two years if they won't agree to it. What then? Back to signing one year players, once again destroying team continuity only to get shot down in free agency the next offseason? Because we have seen how well that has worked, let's give this plan a chance. |
VLF, what do we do 2018 when our young core has maybe developed as we all hope and we have a chance to sign a Paul George .... and then we have no cap space because of Deng and Mozgov. Do you really think we can move them without attaching valuable assets? Maybe we can need them in a trade as salary filler with one of our guys on rookie contracts. But still: The other team will likely want to have compensation for taking on one of these albatrosses.
We shot ourselves in the foot with these two(!!) dumb contracts. End of story. We had 30 million in salary playing 20 poor minutes against the Pistons. What is this continuity worth for the young guns? What do they learn from this? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I believe it was only 2 first rounders for Nash and one for Howard. The first was #30 in 2013 and netted the amazing Nemanja Nedovic, so no protection issues there. The second has been protected well, it still hasn't been conveyed. The second round picks haven't amounted to anything either.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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