Harden just had another 50 point triple-double
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MorrissYe
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:

Resentful for having to set the record straight here, your comments nevertheless require it ...

1. The Cleveland angle isn't subjective. That miserable city had been mired in a drought of devastating championship failures for a very, very, very long time. LeBron called his shot in the Summer of 2014, pointed the bat at the stands, and then delivered the goods in short order ... again, not subjective.


Then the other guy shouldn't have brought it up, it's that simple. We can just simplify this to 'he won a championship that he promised', which isn't really that rare when you think about it.

Again, who the hell cares about Cleveland's, or anyone else's for that matter, feelings? A title's a title. We don't need to attach any unneeded sentimentality to it.

the association wrote:

2. I'm an ardent Shaq fan, but let's get real here ... in '01, we trounced the Sixers; and in '02, we trounced the Nets. If you set the quality of opponent for the 2016 Cleveland Cavaliers (i.e., the 2016 GS Warriors) at 100, the resulting value for both that Sixers team and that Nets team is in the 60 - 70 range. Frankly, the value for any team we faced in the threepeat (including in the WC bracket) isn't greater than 75 on that scale. To be more clear, Shaq's HUGE performances in the NBA postseason for us involved overcoming opponents that don't belong on the same court with the 2016 Warriors ... and the same is true of the 2008 - 2010 run, as well.


It's all about context. Yes, that team won 73 games, but they were never in convincing form in the playoffs. They crumble at the first sign of a challenge, same could not be said about the 06 Mavs for example - remember that classic series against San Antonio? At least the other guy acknowledged that Draymond missed a big game.

the association wrote:

3. Same thing with Duncan in '03 ... he faced that same Nets team (again, they don't belong in the same conversation with the 2016 Warriors), after dancing past our dysfunctional corpse in the WC bracket. FFS, we had a pathetic power grab underway that made the series win for the Spurs a (bleep) waltz ...

4. Wade's '06 performance was sublime, but the 2006 Mavericks were not comparable to the 2016 Warriors ... so, do you see the pattern here? The quality of the opponent is completely overlooked in your analysis ...


See above

the association wrote:

5. Kobe presided over five or six 25+ point blowout losses in postseason closeout (elimination) games in his career ... no other all time great has gone down in flames so badly and so often in NBA history when the season was on the line ... that's game, set, match on that point.


Not sure why you and the other guy keep on bringing up Kobe. I point out something about LeBron but the response has to include Kobe. Amazing how this guy even in retirement gets y'all so triggered

the association wrote:

6. FT %age ... and turnovers? That's what you're hanging your hat on? When his team won the series? Did you happen to notice that he shot 49% from the field and 37% from distance? What about his 2.0 assist/turnover ratio? You didn't like those numbers? Do you realize how unlikely it is that a player's NBA Finals numbers are delivered at those productivity and efficiency levels? OK, anyway ...


Wait so only some stats matter when we discuss the almighty GOATBron? Okay then, talk about being selective

the association wrote:

7. The rest is equally off-the-mark ...


Tell me more, oh great basketball oracle.

the association wrote:

Anyway, who gives a (bleep) about it ... if you haven't been moved to drop the agenda by LeBron's performance over the past 14 seasons, it's just not in the cards ... there's nothing he can do to overcome those arrayed against him. It doesn't really matter ... but at least get the details right.


Anti LeBron agenda

That's the problem with stans like you. Anything that's not 100% in favor of your boyfriend, you call an agenda. No sense arguing then.
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the association
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject:

MorrissYe wrote:
--- redacted because nonsense doesn't deserve oxygen ---


Great work; looking forward to more of your views.
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MorrissYe
Sixth Man
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Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
MorrissYe wrote:
--- redacted because nonsense doesn't deserve oxygen ---


I know, my mom should've swallowed me


There there, no need to be hurt
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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject:

MorrissYe wrote:
the association wrote:
MorrissYe wrote:
--- redacted because nonsense doesn't deserve oxygen ---


I know, my mom should've swallowed me


There there, no need to be hurt


Are you certain you're not American ... ?
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ClemensBriels
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
MorrissYe wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
MorrissYe wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Nvm, it wasn't all that great, he didn't have a 1:1 assist/turnover ratio through the entire series or shoot 25% in an elimination game.


News flash: the world doesn't revolve around Kobe and LeBron. Other guys have played in the Finals too. Who would've known right!?

How can you laugh at it being considered the greatest finals ever?
-Led pts, assists, rbds, blocks, steals on both teams (never been done before... Insane... Totally reflects how he absolutely dominated the series)
-Beat a 73 win team (even if they were a tiny bit banged up/dray missed a game/bogut who could barely stay on the floor anyway missed a game)
-2 41 point elimination games in a row, highest "game scores" in finals history in the two of them
-greatest defensive play ever and it's not close
-scored down the stretch of game 7 pretty well actually, considering how cold both teams went. He knocked down an extremely clutch free throw after destroying his arm a couple minutes prior.
-led comeback from down 3-1
-brought a Championship to Cleveland

Not sure how you can scoff at that.


The whole 'led both teams in so and so categories' doesn't really appeal to me. It's nice to look at on paper, but it only goes to show how gash everyone else for the majority of the series. After two games, the leading candidates for MVP were Livingston and Green. This is more a slight on Curry than a compliment for LeBron.

The 'championship back to Cleveland' angle doesn't resonate with me either. I'm not American so maybe it's a US thing. Point is, it's a subjective matter.

Judging by how you talk about LeBron ('greatest defensive play ever'?), I'll assume you didn't get to watch a lot of basketball pre-2000, but off the top of my head, some better performances post-Jordan:
- Shaq 01 and 00
- Wade 06
- Duncan 03

A few negatives on why LeBron 16 doesn't break into elite category for me:
- The Cavs suffered the largest two game margin of defeat in Finals history, which stat nerds conveniently ignore now. As a leader, that's on Bron (yes, I know you will bring up Kobe getting blown out in Boston, and I agree)
- Only shot 72% from the line
- 31 TOs
- Was invisible on defense for the first 4 games, except when he was against a hobbled Curry - granted he was on fine form during the last three


Resentful for having to set the record straight here, your comments nevertheless require it ...

1. The Cleveland angle isn't subjective. That miserable city had been mired in a drought of devastating championship failures for a very, very, very long time. LeBron called his shot in the Summer of 2014, pointed the bat at the stands, and then delivered the goods in short order ... again, not subjective.

2. I'm an ardent Shaq fan, but let's get real here ... in '01, we trounced the Sixers; and in '02, we trounced the Nets. If you set the quality of opponent for the 2016 Cleveland Cavaliers (i.e., the 2016 GS Warriors) at 100, the resulting value for both that Sixers team and that Nets team is in the 60 - 70 range. Frankly, the value for any team we faced in the threepeat (including in the WC bracket) isn't greater than 75 on that scale. To be more clear, Shaq's HUGE performances in the NBA postseason for us involved overcoming opponents that don't belong on the same court with the 2016 Warriors ... and the same is true of the 2008 - 2010 run, as well.

3. Same thing with Duncan in '03 ... he faced that same Nets team (again, they don't belong in the same conversation with the 2016 Warriors), after dancing past our dysfunctional corpse in the WC bracket. FFS, we had a pathetic power grab underway that made the series win for the Spurs a (bleep) waltz ...

4. Wade's '06 performance was sublime, but the 2006 Mavericks were not comparable to the 2016 Warriors ... so, do you see the pattern here? The quality of the opponent is completely overlooked in your analysis ...

5. Kobe presided over five or six 25+ point blowout losses in postseason closeout (elimination) games in his career ... no other all time great has gone down in flames so badly and so often in NBA history when the season was on the line ... that's game, set, match on that point.

6. FT %age ... and turnovers? That's what you're hanging your hat on? When his team won the series? Did you happen to notice that he shot 49% from the field and 37% from distance? What about his 2.0 assist/turnover ratio? You didn't like those numbers? Do you realize how unlikely it is that a player's NBA Finals numbers are delivered at those productivity and efficiency levels? OK, anyway ...

7. The rest is equally off-the-mark ...

Anyway, who gives a (bleep) about it ... if you haven't been moved to drop the agenda by LeBron's performance over the past 14 seasons, it's just not in the cards ... there's nothing he can do to overcome those arrayed against him. It doesn't really matter ... but at least get the details right.

Completely off-topic, and nothing to do with the content of your post: you're a great writer, do you dabble at all? Or do you write for a living maybe?
I'm not trying to team up on you or piggyback association's post, MorrisYe.
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