Lebron calls the Cavs top heavy.. need more talent to repeat
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject:

ClemensBriels wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Really though
KD
Bron
Harden

Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively


Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden

Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game.

Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.

Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan

Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still


You're giving Harden way too much credit. I'm not just watching highlight videos, he doesn't put out any effort on that end. He lets guys go by him constantly and all he'll do is reach for a steal. Doesn't move his feet, or contest shots. Westbrook isn't a great defender most of the time but when he wants to be, he's really good. The same can't be said for Harden. And his gambling on defense often means a steal and break away dunk(although it does lead to breakdowns at times too) Curry is better on both ends than Harden too IMO. He plays hard defensively and is almost always in the correct spot even though he isn't a great on ball defender himself. The only think Harden has on Curry is 1v1 moves.

I would take more than just those two over Harden too.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
governator wrote:
the association wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.

Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake

(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close



I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder.


Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)

The top talents of each eras overall are about equal


There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...

I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ...


absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree


Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.

And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...

At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?

Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ...


This. Best of a lot will always be better than the best of little .

Talent pool has grown so massively over the last 15 years that to discount this HUGE factor is silly. I see it all the time.


You can see this play out in real time with the UFC. As far back as a decade ago, that might as well have been the leather football era. YOu inject exponential amounts of $$$ into a sport and hte talent pool will increase exponentially. It's such a basic concept across all fields (of academica/sports/careers etc) yet when discussing sports eras, it's laughably ignored. 20 years ago, the potential best MMA fighter may be working a desk job after his wrestling career. Point is, the greater the talent pool, the more likely the best in the world IS the best in the world and not sitting around doing something else. We'll never have the perfect system unless all 7 billion people try out for everything but the greater the monetary incentive, the greater the talent pool. Add globalization and the talent pool disparity is laughable. Some of the players of yesteryear wouldn't even have made the league.

In any event, I think globalization/$ has peaked to such an extent that the worldwide talent pool has reached crticial mass about a decade ago and it's platueaing.



Not necessarily. Sure, there is easier access to foreign players. At the same time, the number of teams has increased from 26 to 30. We can argue if the increase in foreign players simply helped keep the average talent level as the number of spots in the league increased.

And there are other key changes, like players coming out school earlier, which arguable equips them with less skills and experience that may affect them throughout their career.

And also, the NBA pool is a few hundred people. It’s not a given that if you draw such a small number from a larger pool you’ll have a proportional increase in talent. In other words, drawing 300 people from a pool of 6 billion rather than 2 billion doesn’t inherently mean the final group will be three times better. You might end up with a higher grade of people in the middle of the final group, but a lesser grade at the top of the group. If you care Bill James talked about the mathematics of this in one of his books.

There are a lot of different parts to the equation, and I’ve never seen anyone make a good stab at sorting them all out in a pervasive way.


The ratio between foreing born players and the increase in teams in the late 80's isn't remotely close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_NBA_players
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Really though
KD
Bron
Harden

Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively


Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden

Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game.

Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.

Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan

Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still


You're giving Harden way too much credit. I'm not just watching highlight videos, he doesn't put out any effort on that end. He lets guys go by him constantly and all he'll do is reach for a steal. Doesn't move his feet, or contest shots. Westbrook isn't a great defender most of the time but when he wants to be, he's really good. The same can't be said for Harden. And his gambling on defense often means a steal and break away dunk(although it does lead to breakdowns at times too) Curry is better on both ends than Harden too IMO. He plays hard defensively and is almost always in the correct spot even though he isn't a great on ball defender himself. The only think Harden has on Curry is 1v1 moves.

I would take more than just those two over Harden too.

yea. curry tries harder than harden, but hes smaller and todays rules...all these pgs look bad on defense. nothing they can do, they all look good on offense too, two sides of the same coin. harden just doesnt try or doesnt care i dunno.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
activeverb wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
governator wrote:
the association wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.

Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake

(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close



I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder.


Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)

The top talents of each eras overall are about equal


There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...

I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ...


absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree


Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.

And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...

At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?

Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ...


This. Best of a lot will always be better than the best of little .

Talent pool has grown so massively over the last 15 years that to discount this HUGE factor is silly. I see it all the time.


You can see this play out in real time with the UFC. As far back as a decade ago, that might as well have been the leather football era. YOu inject exponential amounts of $$$ into a sport and hte talent pool will increase exponentially. It's such a basic concept across all fields (of academica/sports/careers etc) yet when discussing sports eras, it's laughably ignored. 20 years ago, the potential best MMA fighter may be working a desk job after his wrestling career. Point is, the greater the talent pool, the more likely the best in the world IS the best in the world and not sitting around doing something else. We'll never have the perfect system unless all 7 billion people try out for everything but the greater the monetary incentive, the greater the talent pool. Add globalization and the talent pool disparity is laughable. Some of the players of yesteryear wouldn't even have made the league.

In any event, I think globalization/$ has peaked to such an extent that the worldwide talent pool has reached crticial mass about a decade ago and it's platueaing.



Not necessarily. Sure, there is easier access to foreign players. At the same time, the number of teams has increased from 26 to 30. We can argue if the increase in foreign players simply helped keep the average talent level as the number of spots in the league increased.

And there are other key changes, like players coming out school earlier, which arguable equips them with less skills and experience that may affect them throughout their career.

And also, the NBA pool is a few hundred people. It’s not a given that if you draw such a small number from a larger pool you’ll have a proportional increase in talent. In other words, drawing 300 people from a pool of 6 billion rather than 2 billion doesn’t inherently mean the final group will be three times better. You might end up with a higher grade of people in the middle of the final group, but a lesser grade at the top of the group. If you care Bill James talked about the mathematics of this in one of his books.

There are a lot of different parts to the equation, and I’ve never seen anyone make a good stab at sorting them all out in a pervasive way.


The ratio between foreing born players and the increase in teams in the late 80's isn't remotely close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_NBA_players


I didn't mean to suggest the ratios were the same. Was just saying that was one factor among many to consider.

The trouble is there's no baseline to measure talent. People will say that the Bulls faced weaker teams in the 1990s than we faced in the 2000s, for example, but there really isn't a compelling way to measure those types of claims, so they're all very in the eye of the beholder.

When people attack the question, they tend to do it in dribs and drabs, like in this thread, which tends not be compelling either, which is why the discussion peters out really quick.

It's like the claims "Durant-Harden-Lebron" are better than "MJ-Hakeem-Barkley." If you can prove that one, my hat's off to you. I can't
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject:

Jordan Farmar on Cavs' radar after free-agent workout

LINK

Quote:
The Cavs brought in Farmar, Mario Chalmers and Kirk Hinrich for a workout, with the idea of potentially signing one as the veteran backup to Kyrie Irving the franchise has looked for all season. Also attending was Lance Stephenson, a wing player.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Jordan Farmar on Cavs' radar after free-agent workout

LINK

Quote:
The Cavs brought in Farmar, Mario Chalmers and Kirk Hinrich for a workout, with the idea of potentially signing one as the veteran backup to Kyrie Irving the franchise has looked for all season. Also attending was Lance Stephenson, a wing player.

wow cavs are really freaking out. farmar would be a good pickup for them.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Jordan Farmar on Cavs' radar after free-agent workout

LINK

Quote:
The Cavs brought in Farmar, Mario Chalmers and Kirk Hinrich for a workout, with the idea of potentially signing one as the veteran backup to Kyrie Irving the franchise has looked for all season. Also attending was Lance Stephenson, a wing player.


Lance Stephenson
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Really though
KD
Bron
Harden

Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively


Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden

Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game.

Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.

Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan

Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still


You're giving Harden way too much credit. I'm not just watching highlight videos, he doesn't put out any effort on that end. He lets guys go by him constantly and all he'll do is reach for a steal. Doesn't move his feet, or contest shots. Westbrook isn't a great defender most of the time but when he wants to be, he's really good. The same can't be said for Harden. And his gambling on defense often means a steal and break away dunk(although it does lead to breakdowns at times too) Curry is better on both ends than Harden too IMO. He plays hard defensively and is almost always in the correct spot even though he isn't a great on ball defender himself. The only think Harden has on Curry is 1v1 moves.

I would take more than just those two over Harden too.


This season Harden and Westbrook have both been putting forth little effort defensively. They both have bad defensive numbers, but Westbrook's are worse. Curry at least tries to defend, but he isn't good at it. He just rarely has to do it on that team.

If Harden leads a starless supporting cast to a top 3 seed for the 2nd time in 2 years then it's time to stop underrating his impact, as far as the regular season is concerned. He has been underwhelming in most of his playoff showing in Houston.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject:

@Dreamshake Curry's defense is pesky. He's to small to be a disrupter. Plus he's on a team that leads the NBA in defense.

Imagine if OKC had kept Harden, Westbrook and Durant and they'd have able to co-exist?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Really though
KD
Bron
Harden

Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively


Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden

Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game.

Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.

Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan

Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still


You're giving Harden way too much credit. I'm not just watching highlight videos, he doesn't put out any effort on that end. He lets guys go by him constantly and all he'll do is reach for a steal. Doesn't move his feet, or contest shots. Westbrook isn't a great defender most of the time but when he wants to be, he's really good. The same can't be said for Harden. And his gambling on defense often means a steal and break away dunk(although it does lead to breakdowns at times too) Curry is better on both ends than Harden too IMO. He plays hard defensively and is almost always in the correct spot even though he isn't a great on ball defender himself. The only think Harden has on Curry is 1v1 moves.

I would take more than just those two over Harden too.


This season Harden and Westbrook have both been putting forth little effort defensively. They both have bad defensive numbers, but Westbrook's are worse. Curry at least tries to defend, but he isn't good at it. He just rarely has to do it on that team.

If Harden leads a starless supporting cast to a top 3 seed for the 2nd time in 2 years then it's time to stop underrating his impact, as far as the regular season is concerned. He has been underwhelming in most of his playoff showing in Houston.


I'm taking playoffs into account when I criticize Harden. Constantly flopping and trying to draw fouls doesn't work as much. Also, guys like Westbrook start to put out the effort in the playoffs and play some defense, Harden never does. I would say Harden is the best 1v1 offensive player in the game but I would still take Curry or Westbrook over him any day.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject:

I'd tear my hair out watching harden on the lakers. He and Larry brown should team up for the comedy. Talk about not the right way.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
@Dreamshake Curry's defense is pesky. He's to small to be a disrupter. Plus he's on a team that leads the NBA in defense.

Imagine if OKC had kept Harden, Westbrook and Durant and they'd have able to co-exist?


Curry's defense is overrated. He's just surrounded by great defenders. But I give him more credit than Harden ad Westbrook because he actually puts forth effort consistently.

Those 3 had no problems coexisting and it would have continued because Harden, like Manu, had no issue with a smaller role. He just wanted his money.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
jodeke wrote:
@Dreamshake Curry's defense is pesky. He's to small to be a disrupter. Plus he's on a team that leads the NBA in defense.

Imagine if OKC had kept Harden, Westbrook and Durant and they'd have able to co-exist?


Curry's defense is overrated. He's just surrounded by great defenders. But I give him more credit than Harden ad Westbrook because he actually puts forth effort consistently.

Those 3 had no problems coexisting and it would have continued because Harden, like Manu, had no issue with a smaller role. He just wanted his money.


I don't rate him a great defender, he's a pesky defender. Also the team is rated high every season in defense.

If I have it right they could have kept Harden LINK
Quote:
In fall 2012, Harden still had one more year on his bargain-basement rookie-scale contract. Whoever held his rights could either agree to an extension with him that year, which would kick in for the 2013-14 season, or wait until the following summer and use match rights, a pattern that has become more popular in the last two offseasons for even maximum-caliber players.

Either way, the new contract would not officially count toward a team’s books and luxury tax payment until the last day of the regular season of the year that the contract took effect. In this case, that meant Harden would stay off a team’s tax bill until the final day of the 2014 season. That structure allows teams to start the season over the luxury tax line or under the salary floor, as long as they shift things by year’s end. These are normal practices. In 2013, the season when Harden was traded, the Warriors and Grizzlies both made deals at the trade deadline to duck the tax.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject:

curry does nothing special at all on defense. partly because of the rules, and partly because he doesn't really have to. the team is good enough where nobody is going to look terrible on defense. but green is their talented defender, curry is just there. klay is more talented. curry is too small anyway to really do anything, and he's not a tough guy, so he just gets the jod done basically.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ClemensBriels wrote:
Really though
KD
Bron
Harden

Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively


Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden

Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game.

Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.

Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan

Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still


You're giving Harden way too much credit. I'm not just watching highlight videos, he doesn't put out any effort on that end. He lets guys go by him constantly and all he'll do is reach for a steal. Doesn't move his feet, or contest shots. Westbrook isn't a great defender most of the time but when he wants to be, he's really good. The same can't be said for Harden. And his gambling on defense often means a steal and break away dunk(although it does lead to breakdowns at times too) Curry is better on both ends than Harden too IMO. He plays hard defensively and is almost always in the correct spot even though he isn't a great on ball defender himself. The only think Harden has on Curry is 1v1 moves.

I would take more than just those two over Harden too.


This season Harden and Westbrook have both been putting forth little effort defensively. They both have bad defensive numbers, but Westbrook's are worse. Curry at least tries to defend, but he isn't good at it. He just rarely has to do it on that team.

If Harden leads a starless supporting cast to a top 3 seed for the 2nd time in 2 years then it's time to stop underrating his impact, as far as the regular season is concerned. He has been underwhelming in most of his playoff showing in Houston.


I'm taking playoffs into account when I criticize Harden. Constantly flopping and trying to draw fouls doesn't work as much. Also, guys like Westbrook start to put out the effort in the playoffs and play some defense, Harden never does. I would say Harden is the best 1v1 offensive player in the game but I would still take Curry or Westbrook over him any day.

harden is a talented offensive player. on defense, he is lame, but it doesn't matter in this league. not even worth analyzing because he's an mvp candidate and the rest of the team covers for him on defense. harden consistently screws up in meaningful moments. that's his problem. until he stops doing that, he'll always be annoying. it has nothing to do with his stats or his ability...he can get all the triple doubles he wants, be as fancy as he wants, get all the calls, but he always screws up when it matters. because he's kind of a headcase. if i were him, i'd forget about the stats and all the things he does to get calls, and just freaking play hard. he'll never do that more than 5 minutes at a time. he just has a little bit of a screw loose when it comes to basketball.
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Krispy Kreme
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject:

Sasha was known as a "pesky" defender too. But I wouldn't trust him to defend any talented player with the game on the line. Same with Curry.

Hopefully when GSW meets Cle this year, they can give Curry enough help so he doesn't get torched by Irving.

And I agree, Thompson is a better all around player than Curry. Matter of fact, if they have to lose 1 of the 2 guys, I'd trade Curry over Klay. Klay would do just fine in Curry's role on offense.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject:

LeBron bout to get Bogut and D.Will... not bad
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