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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | governator wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both |
That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)  |
Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up? |
LINK
| Quote: |
After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating. |
What do you think he means by not participating? |
The presidential election.
If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown. |
I'm own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation. |
If you're going to resort to projection, then you may be correct. |
To be fair you are the one projecting. Kapernick said he did not participate in the election and you assumed he meant only the Presidential election, when he said nothing close to that.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: |
I can't say i disagree with you on the privilege part. The issue with people being upset with kap has a lot to do with people not putting their feet in the shoes of a minority person who believes the system has not only failed him and those like him but keeps doing so intentionally. If that is the case why would you participate in the voting process? You wouldn't. People keep answering this question from their view point. it's not you who are not standing for the anthem/flag etc. It's him. It's not you not voting, it's him. Why is he choosing this path? He told you a few times why. People brush over his answer because it hurts people who believe in the system to see someone not believe in the system.
It's the same issue the "black community" overall has with police(generally speaking.) vs what a lot of the majority whites at least in the recent past has not had the same issues with Trusting the police. Now more and more we are all having issues with the police in general I'll grant you that. But in the recent past, Whites were by far more likely to assume that if a police person did something, they did so out of great ethical judgement. If you would ask a random group of black people that same question you would get answers that showed they felt the police at times were being unethical in their behavior.
Blacks on average do not TRUST the justice SYSTEM. Why? Because it has failed them time and time again even when they participated within the system/society properly.
Kap is not to be seen as Kap when we have this discussion. Kap symbolizes a plight among black people. Do you guys/gals that are non black understand said plight? Can you at the very least wholeheartedly sympathize with said plight?
If the answer is yes, then you would not be bothered by Kap not standing, You would not be bothered by Kap not voting.
You said down ticket votes. Which i agree with has more of an effect on you personally then the big election with the president. TO be honest more people need to be more involved in that one perhaps more so than the presidents election. Because you feel it immediately when it's a local election or proposition on the ballot. With that said.
A few votes ago, Los angeles had a chance to vote for a new sheriff. Guess what our choices were? a Bunch of people who have already been within the sheriff system. The top Sheriff was recently brought up on charges and so were people beneath his command. Word on the street was the 2nd in command to him and others were also involved in the scandal. These people were all on the ballot. These are the kinds of choices you are given. Vote for the devil with red hair or the devil with blue hair. Why should I care if it's the devil regardless?
And even if you got lucky and found someone on that list that wasn't apart of the old sheriff's group. Then you vote for a new guy and you find out he treats people that look like you just as bad as or worse than the former sheriff treated you.
We're talking about Systemic problems people. Not one individual thats the president. Systemic issues run deep. So deep that even on the local level you have people up for votes that are also apart of said system and they wont do anything crazy or drastic to change it for the betterment of ALL people which includes black people/brown people etc.
And these replies are coming from me a black person who actually votes. You guys shouldn't be worried about Kap not voting you should be asking a person like me. Why I still even vote. |
If the problems are systemic, and they run so deep that voting won't change it. Then what are you kneeling for? Who is he pleading to?
The people? The opressors? The people that have the power to enact change?
If he's going to plead to the people that have the power to enact changes, then he might as well vote...
What is the solution that this "cause" is seeking? How do people change a broken system?
riots & violence?
protests?
voting?
prayer & hope?
We can safely assume that the system isn't going to change itself... |
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fansincemagic
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: |
To go along with that. Kap's problem is the lack of police accountability. Lack of accountability for those in power.
Hillary Clinton is a manifestation of that very thing. She has no accountability. Not only has this person skated what would have surely ended the career of less "prominent" individuals, and possibly landed them in prison, she had the nerve to believe she should be President despite that. That's exactly the problem Kaepernick has with police. They commit crimes. They break the law. They lie to cover their asses. They keep their positions and rise through the ranks.
That's Hillary Clinton.
And you want to call him a hypocrite for not voting for that? I don't understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. It makes no sense. But I guess that's politics? |
I'm not saying you don't have some valid points in there, but Kap and people who didn't vote because they felt the same way as him will have to learn how different those two evils really were through bitter experience and there's no two ways about it. If he didn't like how police got away with things and were emboldened by the system failing to hold them accountable under Obama (much less Hillary), he'll find out how those dynamics work under Trump/Pence. Those issues have to get that much worse before that will sink into the mind of someone like him. Even the mothers of the sons/daughters (some of them kids) killed in various police incidents must've felt that sh would largely remain intact under Hillary if it did under Obama, but they apparently knew that injustices don't simply remain static no matter WHO you throw in there.
If Kap was more interested in Hillary being punished for her emails than to prevent Trump/Pence and Guiliani from being the champions of police authority under any circumstance, then kudos to him and on the other thing, good luck with that. Rudy Tutti. Wait'll they getta load of him.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16162
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: | http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mike-evans-indicates-on-instagram-he-didnt-vote-before-protesting-donald-trump-181824165.html
Old news by now, but Evans is taking a similar "stance".
In both cases, I can't wrap my head around using a VIP platform for a protest yet ignoring the choice to cast a vote and use your actual voice. I'm sure Hillary would have loved to have his support in private then vs anything now. |
My point exactly!
Kneel to protest Trump, but refuse to vote |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: |
To go along with that. Kap's problem is the lack of police accountability. Lack of accountability for those in power.
Hillary Clinton is a manifestation of that very thing. She has no accountability. Not only has this person skated what would have surely ended the career of less "prominent" individuals, and possibly landed them in prison, she had the nerve to believe she should be President despite that. That's exactly the problem Kaepernick has with police. They commit crimes. They break the law. They lie to cover their asses. They keep their positions and rise through the ranks.
That's Hillary Clinton.
And you want to call him a hypocrite for not voting for that? I don't understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. It makes no sense. But I guess that's politics? |
I'm not saying you don't have some valid points in there, but Kap and people who didn't vote because they felt the same way as him will have to learn how different those two evils really were through bitter experience and there's no two ways about it. If he didn't like how police got away with things and were emboldened by the system failing to hold them accountable under Obama (much less Hillary), he'll find out how those dynamics work under Trump/Pence. Those issues have to get that much worse before that will sink into the mind of someone like him. Even the mothers of the sons/daughters (some of them kids) killed in various police incidents must've felt that sh would largely remain intact under Hillary if it did under Obama, but they apparently knew that injustices don't simply remain static no matter WHO you throw in there.
If Kap was more interested in Hillary being punished for her emails than to prevent Trump/Pence and Guiliani from being the champions of police authority under any circumstance, then kudos to him and on the other thing, good luck with that. Rudy Tutti. Wait'll they getta load of him. |
Yup, it's not that people want him to vote, it's what is he kneeling for exactly?
When Trump takes office, what would he kneeling for? Is he pleading to Trump to end systemic oppression?
Does he hold the presidential office accountable for systemic oppression? What r his expectations of the president w/ regards to systemic oppression?
If he expects them to "do right" by his cause, then maybe he should have voted.
If he expects nothing out of the president, then no need to vote.
But if a part of his platform is along the lines of: blacks have been/are systematically oppressed in this country and the president is a part of the problem/solution.
If thats a part of his platform, then he should vote |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16162
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Wonder if any of these players participated in the US Congress elections. We know Kaepernick abstained from voting for the US Congress.
| Quote: | NFL players headed to Capitol Hill to talk police relations and race issues, may meet with Paul Ryan
Five NFL players on Wednesday will travel to Capitol Hill to discuss police brutality and race issues with members of Congress, including a possible meeting with Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.
The meetings were conceived by Detroit Lions wide receiver Anquan Boldin, who is known for his off-the-field community work. The group will include four other players -- Boldin's teammate, safety Glover Quin; Philadelphia Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins; and Cleveland Browns quarterback Josh McCown and wide receiver Andrew Hawkins.
Boldin told ESPN's Jim Trotter he asked those players because they are "all guys who are well-respected in the league and who have the same goal as myself."
A personal loss at hands of police takes NFL players to D.C.
Five NFL players are traveling to Capitol Hill on Tuesday for meetings with a handful of congressmen, including Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, about racial oppression and inequality in the U.S.
The players are scheduled to meet with Reps. Patrick Murphy, D-Fla.; Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; and Daniel Webster, R-Fla., as well as members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The meetings were organized by Andrew Blejwas, an associate director of marketing for The Nature Conservancy who also advises players like Boldin on how they can have more influence off the field. The NFL Players Association also worked to arrange the meetings with Ryan, R-Wis., and with some members of the White House staff.
Boldin told Trotter there's a "huge mistrust" between the police and the African-American community.
"I want to help close that gap," he said.
McCown, the only white player in the group, said he's going to listen.
"I don't believe we, as white people, can understand what African-Americans go through on a daily basis, because it's different," McCown said. "For me, first and foremost, I want to be able to acknowledge that, and say that our stories are different and our histories are different, but let's just try to be a part of making it better moving forward." |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | Wonder if any of these players participated in the US Congress elections. We know Kaepernick abstained from voting for the US Congress.
| Quote: | NFL players headed to Capitol Hill to talk police relations and race issues, may meet with Paul Ryan
Five NFL players on Wednesday will travel to Capitol Hill to discuss police brutality and race issues with members of Congress, including a possible meeting with Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.
The meetings were conceived by Detroit Lions wide receiver Anquan Boldin, who is known for his off-the-field community work. The group will include four other players -- Boldin's teammate, safety Glover Quin; Philadelphia Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins; and Cleveland Browns quarterback Josh McCown and wide receiver Andrew Hawkins.
Boldin told ESPN's Jim Trotter he asked those players because they are "all guys who are well-respected in the league and who have the same goal as myself."
A personal loss at hands of police takes NFL players to D.C.
Five NFL players are traveling to Capitol Hill on Tuesday for meetings with a handful of congressmen, including Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, about racial oppression and inequality in the U.S.
The players are scheduled to meet with Reps. Patrick Murphy, D-Fla.; Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; and Daniel Webster, R-Fla., as well as members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The meetings were organized by Andrew Blejwas, an associate director of marketing for The Nature Conservancy who also advises players like Boldin on how they can have more influence off the field. The NFL Players Association also worked to arrange the meetings with Ryan, R-Wis., and with some members of the White House staff.
Boldin told Trotter there's a "huge mistrust" between the police and the African-American community.
"I want to help close that gap," he said.
McCown, the only white player in the group, said he's going to listen.
"I don't believe we, as white people, can understand what African-Americans go through on a daily basis, because it's different," McCown said. "For me, first and foremost, I want to be able to acknowledge that, and say that our stories are different and our histories are different, but let's just try to be a part of making it better moving forward." |
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outside of Kaepernick, I don't see why they wouldn't have voted |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | governator wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both |
That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious) |
Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up? |
LINK
| Quote: |
After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating. |
What do you think he means by not participating? |
The presidential election.
If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown. |
I'm own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation. |
If you're going to resort to projection, then you may be correct. |
To be fair you are the one projecting. Kapernick said he did not participate in the election and you assumed he meant only the Presidential election, when he said nothing close to that. |
They literally asked him about the Presidential election and he answered the question. If you've been paying attention every statement he's made about the election has been about the Presidential election. If you're going to resort to lying do not respond to my posts.
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A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made.  Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16162
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | Wonder if any of these players participated in the US Congress elections. We know Kaepernick abstained from voting for the US Congress.
| Quote: | NFL players headed to Capitol Hill to talk police relations and race issues, may meet with Paul Ryan
Five NFL players on Wednesday will travel to Capitol Hill to discuss police brutality and race issues with members of Congress, including a possible meeting with Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.
The meetings were conceived by Detroit Lions wide receiver Anquan Boldin, who is known for his off-the-field community work. The group will include four other players -- Boldin's teammate, safety Glover Quin; Philadelphia Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins; and Cleveland Browns quarterback Josh McCown and wide receiver Andrew Hawkins.
Boldin told ESPN's Jim Trotter he asked those players because they are "all guys who are well-respected in the league and who have the same goal as myself."
A personal loss at hands of police takes NFL players to D.C.
Five NFL players are traveling to Capitol Hill on Tuesday for meetings with a handful of congressmen, including Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, about racial oppression and inequality in the U.S.
The players are scheduled to meet with Reps. Patrick Murphy, D-Fla.; Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; and Daniel Webster, R-Fla., as well as members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The meetings were organized by Andrew Blejwas, an associate director of marketing for The Nature Conservancy who also advises players like Boldin on how they can have more influence off the field. The NFL Players Association also worked to arrange the meetings with Ryan, R-Wis., and with some members of the White House staff.
Boldin told Trotter there's a "huge mistrust" between the police and the African-American community.
"I want to help close that gap," he said.
McCown, the only white player in the group, said he's going to listen.
"I don't believe we, as white people, can understand what African-Americans go through on a daily basis, because it's different," McCown said. "For me, first and foremost, I want to be able to acknowledge that, and say that our stories are different and our histories are different, but let's just try to be a part of making it better moving forward." |
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outside of Kaepernick, I don't see why they wouldn't have voted |
That's my point. It's all the same cause.
Not all see voting as useless to the cause. |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | If you are kap and you're already not standing for the anthem all due to issues you have with black lives not mattering to america. When you have the information on what the clintons have done to the african american community over the years. Shoot, what they have done to haitians (blacks) with that charity. Why in the world would you vote for hilary? You wouldn't, assuming you feel the way kap feels. Hearing the stuff trump has said about all minority groups, why would you vote for trump if you have taken that stand that kap has? You wouldn't. So you're left making a symbolic vote as a write in choice or a green party/libertarian party choice.
TO make it simple. If i know you're not going to help my cause why on earth would I vote for either of you? That would be silly. |
To go along with that. Kap's problem is the lack of police accountability. Lack of accountability for those in power.
Hillary Clinton is a manifestation of that very thing. She has no accountability. Not only has this person skated what would have surely ended the career of less "prominent" individuals, and possibly landed them in prison, she had the nerve to believe she should be President despite that. That's exactly the problem Kaepernick has with police. They commit crimes. They break the law. They lie to cover their asses. They keep their positions and rise through the ranks.
That's Hillary Clinton.
And you want to call him a hypocrite for not voting for that? I don't understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. It makes no sense. But I guess that's politics?
| Quote: | We don't get to pick the candidates though.
It's either Jim Buss, Frank McCourt or Al Davis. |
That's like saying choose between MDA and Mike Dunleavy. The correct answer is - you should have hired Phil when you had the chance.
Better analogy. You have a wildly successful TV show, but the show's quality is horrible. You want the show to be better. You want the showrunners to hire better writers. Seek out better directors.
Season 2 of this show is going to be made regardless of whether you watch or not. It's already in the works. So why not just watch the damn show?
So let's say you just continue watching the show because of that backwards logic. Nothing changes. Everything stays the same. Season 3 will now suck too.
If you had instead chosen to not watch it, the ratings would have taken a hit. Less ratings is less money. Less money causes people that so desperately want your money to seek to increase that figure. Which makes them suddenly open their ears and listen. Had you kept watching, the ratings staying the same, money being made, your complaints about the show's quality would have fallen on deaf ears. They only care about the money. The parties only care about your vote. And once you give that to them, every complaint you make is irrelevant.
Abstaining should help. It should help. Like someone said, it's a vote of no-confidence. It's up to people to not be dismissive. When you get people blaming non-voters for Hillary's loss, well, that's equivalent to blaming the show's drop in ratings on the people that chose to stop watching. While technically true, it's ignoring the actual problem. The people in charge willfully put out an inferior product. That should be the focus.
Do you believe the people 50 years from now would appreciate the people of today making the two-party system yield better candidates? I know I would have appreciated the people of 50 years ago doing something about the system so people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton could never in a million years be considered for President. I would have appreciated that very much. The "lesser of two evils" voters are perpetuators of stagnation and status quo. If the system deems it acceptable to choose flawed candidates over the good ones, then you simply say (bleep) you to the system and continue to call for change. Participation is perpetuation.
Some people like pretend they care about the future while damning the people of the future to fates similar to our own. We should have been asking ourselves how we let Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump be the primary candidates for Presidency, and made efforts to ensure that it would never happen again. Instead, we have yet again proven to be selfish, while thinking we altruistic. |
Where's the applauds gif.
You said it best with this reply. There's nothing else for me to say. |
And just to be clear, I am only referring to "lesser evil" voting. I am a firm believer in voting for the person you believe in, as opposed to the person you're forced to believe in because you have less faith in the opposition. Once you cast that lesser-evil vote, you're telling the parties it's okay for them to give you "evil" candidates in the first place. There are very good candidates out there being overlooked - people that could do some actual good in this world - because the parties know they have your vote regardless of who they throw out there.
We saw that very thing play out this election. They trotted out the worst of the worst, and felt no real obligation to choose anyone better because "guaranteed votes." I have a hard time believing that as big as the democratic party is, Hillary Clinton was one of the two best they had to offer.
Why wasn't the focus on finding the absolute best person out of the bunch? How in the hell did we go from Obama to Clinton?
Because perpetuators of status quo will vote for whoever the party picks. And then turn around and feign concern over the future of the country, as though they aren't doing the exact thing the country needs for the state of affairs to remain exactly the same or worsen in the future. Perpetuating status quo. Lesser of two evils is not voting for change, it's voting for things to remain intact. Just repeating past mistakes.
I don't think abstaining is the best option(because it's easy to be dismissive). I think it's the best option we have right now. If things went perfectly, the people that choose to abstain and the people that vote for the "lesser evil" all unite and write in the same exact thing on the ballot. A single, unmistakable message that cannot be ignored by the major parties. Unacceptable. Hillary Clinton, unacceptable. Corruption, unacceptable. Liars, unacceptable. Racists, unacceptable. Bigots, unacceptable. Shadiness, unacceptable.
Force them to choose good candidates every single time. Make them earn your votes.
But this nation is too shortsighted to pull that off. We're being shortsighted even when we think we're not. "Think of what Trump can do in those 4 years." Think of what allowing this corrupt system to maintain status quo could do in 50 years. After all, it was that corrupt system that gave us Trump and Hillary in the first place.
We're not thinking of the state of affairs 50 years from now. We weren't thinking that way 50 years ago which is why we're in the state we're in right now. Think of the line of terrible Presidents we have in our history, and think about how there's nothing stopping the nation from repeating past mistakes. The worst President in the history of the United States could still get elected today. The same systems exist. The same kind of people with the same kind of thinking are still running these systems. The voters think the same way. Everything is the same. So what's stopping the next terrible President from rising to power?
And if you believe Trump is that President, you have your answer. Nothing.
If Trump didn't win there'd just be another like him in 12 years. Another Bush. Another Johnson. Another Nixon. Another Buchanan. Another Wilson.
There has to be a point where you say enough is enough. Change wont come about any other way.
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A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16162
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: |
And just to be clear, I am only referring to "lesser evil" voting. I am a firm believer in voting for the person you believe in, as opposed to the person you're forced to believe in because you have less faith in the opposition. Once you cast that lesser-evil vote, you're telling the parties it's okay for them to give you "evil" candidates in the first place. There are very good candidates out there being overlooked - people that could do some actual good in this world - because the parties know they have your vote regardless of who they throw out there.
We saw that very thing play out this election. They trotted out the worst of the worst, and felt no real obligation to choose anyone better because "guaranteed votes." I have a hard time believing that as big as the democratic party is, Hillary Clinton was one of the two best they had to offer.
Why wasn't the focus on finding the absolute best person out of the bunch? How in the hell did we go from Obama to Clinton?
Because perpetuators of status quo will vote for whoever the party picks. And then turn around and feign concern over the future of the country, as though they aren't doing the exact thing the country needs for the state of affairs to remain exactly the same or worsen in the future. Perpetuating status quo. Lesser of two evils is not voting for change, it's voting for things to remain intact. Just repeating past mistakes.
I don't think abstaining is the best option(because it's easy to be dismissive). I think it's the best option we have right now. If things went perfectly, the people that choose to abstain and the people that vote for the "lesser evil" all unite and write in the same exact thing on the ballot. A single, unmistakable message that cannot be ignored by the major parties. Unacceptable. Hillary Clinton, unacceptable. Corruption, unacceptable. Liars, unacceptable. Racists, unacceptable. Bigots, unacceptable. Shadiness, unacceptable.
Force them to choose good candidates every single time. Make them earn your votes.
But this nation is too shortsighted to pull that off. We're being shortsighted even when we think we're not. "Think of what Trump can do in those 4 years." Think of what allowing this corrupt system to maintain status quo could do in 50 years. After all, it was that corrupt system that gave us Trump and Hillary in the first place.
We're not thinking of the state of affairs 50 years from now. We weren't thinking that way 50 years ago which is why we're in the state we're in right now. Think of the line of terrible Presidents we have in our history, and think about how there's nothing stopping the nation from repeating past mistakes. The worst President in the history of the United States could still get elected today. The same systems exist. The same kind of people with the same kind of thinking are still running these systems. The voters think the same way. Everything is the same. So what's stopping the next terrible President from rising to power?
And if you believe Trump is that President, you have your answer. Nothing.
If Trump didn't win there'd just be another like him in 12 years. Another Bush. Another Johnson. Another Nixon. Another Buchanan. Another Wilson.
There has to be a point where you say enough is enough. Change wont come about any other way. |
Ok, let's throw another evil candidate in there.. Hitler
If there were 3 evils to choose from: Clinton, Trump, and Hitler
What's your views on voting between the lesser of those 3 evils? |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Mike Evans and Kaepernick are not similar at all, except in the time and place of their protest actions. Kaepernick had been critical of both Trump and Clinton, and his protest is simply not directly tied to the election or results. He even insinuated the change he is seeking would not come easily from either candidate.....so I do not think the outrage about him not voting is fair.
In contrast, Evans was protesting the "results" of an election that he failed to participate in. I am not one of these people who claim "if you didn't vote, shut up about the results"....free speech is not related to an obligation to vote.....but taking a position on a large stage that is not actually against Trump, but protesting the decision of the 60 Million Americans that voted for Trump does seem hollow if you yourself did not sacrifice 30 minutes of your life to vote.
I think Evans has realized his mistake, which is why he quickly has ended his protest. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | Mike Evans and Kaepernick are not similar at all, except in the time and place of their protest actions. Kaepernick had been critical of both Trump and Clinton, and his protest is simply not directly tied to the election or results. He even insinuated the change he is seeking would not come easily from either candidate.....so I do not think the outrage about him not voting is fair.
In contrast, Evans was protesting the "results" of an election that he failed to participate in. I am not one of these people who claim "if you didn't vote, shut up about the results"....free speech is not related to an obligation to vote.....but taking a position on a large stage that is not actually against Trump, but protesting the decision of the 60 Million Americans that voted for Trump does seem hollow if you yourself did not sacrifice 30 minutes of your life to vote.
I think Evans has realized his mistake, which is why he quickly has ended his protest. |
I'm not against Kaepernick and Evans not participating in the election of a president. MY dismay is by not participating they may help defeat some of the beneficial measures and representatives on the down ballot. I don't think either went to the polls.
Voting is not a one trick pony. I voted Hillary because I don't think Trump is qualified. There were measures on the ballot that benefited some of his cause. Going to the polls was the only way to help those goals advance.
By not participating, IMM, they didn't go to the polls.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | governator wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both |
That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious) |
Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up? |
LINK
| Quote: |
After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating. |
What do you think he means by not participating? |
The presidential election.
If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown. |
I'm own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation. |
If you're going to resort to projection, then you may be correct. |
To be fair you are the one projecting. Kapernick said he did not participate in the election and you assumed he meant only the Presidential election, when he said nothing close to that. |
They literally asked him about the Presidential election and he answered the question. If you've been paying attention every statement he's made about the election has been about the Presidential election. If you're going to resort to lying do not respond to my posts. |
Kaepernick abstained from voting for Congress because he's never registered to vote, EVER.
| Quote: | Colin Kaepernick has never registered to vote in any election
Colin Kaepernick raised eyebrows last week when he revealed that he did not vote in the presidential election amid a football season in which his protest of racial inequality gained national attention. In fact, it would have been problematic if he had. The Sacramento Bee found that the San Francisco 49ers quarterback has never been registered to vote.
Kaepernick, who was raised in Turlock, turned 18 in 2005, but he has not registered to vote in California at any point in the last decade, according to records maintained by the California Secretary of State. He also did not register in Nevada while he attended the University of Nevada, Reno, from 2006 to 2010, according to the Washoe County Registrar of Voters.
That means he missed presidential elections in 2008 and 2012 – when Democrat Barack Obama was elected president – in addition to a variety of state and local elections in other years.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article114803073.html |
I think jodeke should get an apology. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | governator wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both |
That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious) |
Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up? |
LINK
| Quote: |
After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating. |
What do you think he means by not participating? |
The presidential election.
If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown. |
I own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation. |
If you're going to resort to projection, then you may be correct. |
To be fair you are the one projecting. Kapernick said he did not participate in the election and you assumed he meant only the Presidential election, when he said nothing close to that. |
They literally asked him about the Presidential election and he answered the question. If you've been paying attention every statement he's made about the election has been about the Presidential election. If you're going to resort to lying do not respond to my posts. |
Kaepernick abstained from voting for Congress because he's never registered to vote, EVER.
| Quote: | Colin Kaepernick has never registered to vote in any election
Colin Kaepernick raised eyebrows last week when he revealed that he did not vote in the presidential election amid a football season in which his protest of racial inequality gained national attention. In fact, it would have been problematic if he had. The Sacramento Bee found that the San Francisco 49ers quarterback has never been registered to vote.
Kaepernick, who was raised in Turlock, turned 18 in 2005, but he has not registered to vote in California at any point in the last decade, according to records maintained by the California Secretary of State. He also did not register in Nevada while he attended the University of Nevada, Reno, from 2006 to 2010, according to the Washoe County Registrar of Voters.
That means he missed presidential elections in 2008 and 2012 – when Democrat Barack Obama was elected president – in addition to a variety of state and local elections in other years.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article114803073.html |
I think jodeke should get an apology. |
I do't expect an apology. I'm not a Internet warrior bent on winning debates. I participate for knowledge others opinions sake.
I think VLF is the one who deserves the apology. He was correct in saying USC was also projecting. USC literally called him a liar.
My so called projection (which I owned) was proven to be truth. USC's projection (something he wouldn't own) was proven to be false.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/02/colin-kaepernick-plans-to-stand-for-the-national-anthem/
| Quote: | Colin Kaepernick plans to stand for the national anthem
After starting a national dialogue by refusing to stand during the national anthem last year, Colin Kaepernick plans to stand for the anthem this year.
Kaepernick believes there has been positive change in America and doesn’t want to detract from that, so he’ll no longer kneel during “The Star-Spangled Banner” in 2017, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports.
It’s hard not to be cynical and believe that Kaepernick is heading into free agency wanting to maximize his value and doesn’t want teams planning to bid on his services to view him as a distraction. Kneeling during the anthem wouldn’t preclude teams from signing him — plenty of other players refused to stand for the anthem last season and their teams were OK with it — but it could cause him to be viewed as a player who wouldn’t make a great face of a franchise.
By pledging to stand, Kaepernick can remove any doubts his stance caused. Now the question is whether any team thinks Kaepernick is a good enough passer to lead a team. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Can we please stop giving this self-serving, arrogant douchebag any attention . . .
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hasn't registered to vote once? He's lost the right to say anything on the subject.
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rwongega
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 20510
Location: UCLA -> NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/02/colin-kaepernick-plans-to-stand-for-the-national-anthem/
| Quote: | Colin Kaepernick plans to stand for the national anthem
After starting a national dialogue by refusing to stand during the national anthem last year, Colin Kaepernick plans to stand for the anthem this year.
Kaepernick believes there has been positive change in America and doesn’t want to detract from that, so he’ll no longer kneel during “The Star-Spangled Banner” in 2017, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports.
It’s hard not to be cynical and believe that Kaepernick is heading into free agency wanting to maximize his value and doesn’t want teams planning to bid on his services to view him as a distraction. Kneeling during the anthem wouldn’t preclude teams from signing him — plenty of other players refused to stand for the anthem last season and their teams were OK with it — but it could cause him to be viewed as a player who wouldn’t make a great face of a franchise.
By pledging to stand, Kaepernick can remove any doubts his stance caused. Now the question is whether any team thinks Kaepernick is a good enough passer to lead a team. |
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LOL the hypocrite QB returns. I believed before that this kneeling thing was just attention seeking/background-sulking-gone-awry after being benched and now that kneeling will hurt his next contract, he conveniently drops it.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Kaepernick and the NFL settle:
| Quote: | JOINT PUBLIC STATEMENT
For the past several months, counsel for Mr. Kaepernick and Mr. Reid have engaged in an ongoing dialogue with representatives of the NFL. As a result of those discussions, the parties have decided to resolve the pending grievances. The resolution of this matter is subject to a confidentiality agreement so there will be no further comment by any party. |
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/JOINT-PUBLIC-STATEMENT.aspx |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Colin Kaepernick wanted $20 million to play for AAF, per report
| Quote: | | A person with knowledge of the conversation tells The Associated Press that the new Alliance of American Football spoke with Colin Kaepernick during its development about joining the league. But Kaepernick wanted $20 million or more to consider playing with the league that had its debut last weekend. The person spoke on condition of anonymity Thursday because neither side has publicly acknowledged such talks. |
LINK |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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ProFootballTalk
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NFL likely is paying BIG money to keep secret any deposition transcripts, text messages, emails, etc. that may have shown an effort by the league office to discourage teams from signing Kaepernick.
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ProFootballTalk
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It's way too coincidental that someone leaked Kaepernick's financial demands to the AAF a day before his collusion settlement was finalized and announced. It feels like one last middle finger from the league's anti-Kaepernick crowd.
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mike freeman
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Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: |
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Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range. |
Good for him! So I guess this is split evenly between all the clubs?
$1.875 - $2.5M each? |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: |
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Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range. |
Good for him! So I guess this is split evenly between all the clubs?
$1.875 - $2.5M each? |
Yes, I believe that it's divided up between the 32 owners. |
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