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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject:

So much projection. And I'm not talking prognostications of the future.
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Pau Gasol's Beard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
tox wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
Kid has way more potential than DLO. Sorry but that's why most execs will ask for Ingram over DLO in any trade. Cousins trade for example.
Good. I'd much rather they part with Ingram anyways. Way more uncertainty on where he ends up, Russell will at the least be a league average starting point.

League average for second pick in the draft?


He said "at the least". Floor for Ingram is role player if his shooting doesn't come along.

There's a reason why Vlade asked for Ingram over Russel and why Luke favors Ingram over Russel. Not sure if Russel would even be second string for a contending team.


Sam Presti traded MVP favorite Harden in a cheap deal. So don't tell me what a below average GM like Vlade thinks now. He traded Cousins for 23 year old Buddy Hield then. And Luke has never stated preference for Ingram over Rusell anywhere. In fact he said DLo is on a shorter leash 'cos he is one of the select few players that can be a scorer as well as a creator cos he understand passing angles well.

Vlade is below average for sure but reports were Jim and Mitch included Russel in the trade but refused to include Ingram. Mitch may be a bit antiquated but he certainly isn't below average. Sounds like lip service from Luke to be honest. He may not have stated it outright but the benching and minutes imply a preference.
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject:

Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
tox wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
Kid has way more potential than DLO. Sorry but that's why most execs will ask for Ingram over DLO in any trade. Cousins trade for example.
Good. I'd much rather they part with Ingram anyways. Way more uncertainty on where he ends up, Russell will at the least be a league average starting point.

League average for second pick in the draft?


He said "at the least". Floor for Ingram is role player if his shooting doesn't come along.

There's a reason why Vlade asked for Ingram over Russel and why Luke favors Ingram over Russel. Not sure if Russel would even be second string for a contending team.

And Ingram would? Ingram is literally one of the worst players in the league right now. Russell's floor is being a guy who you can win with as a 4th option or so. I know this because that's more or less who he is right now. I think very highly of Ingram's potential, but Russell has a higher floor because he's shown more.

Whatever though.


Last edited by tox on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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saetarubia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject:

Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
tox wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
Kid has way more potential than DLO. Sorry but that's why most execs will ask for Ingram over DLO in any trade. Cousins trade for example.
Good. I'd much rather they part with Ingram anyways. Way more uncertainty on where he ends up, Russell will at the least be a league average starting point.

League average for second pick in the draft?


He said "at the least". Floor for Ingram is role player if his shooting doesn't come along.

There's a reason why Vlade asked for Ingram over Russel and why Luke favors Ingram over Russel. Not sure if Russel would even be second string for a contending team.


Sam Presti traded MVP favorite Harden in a cheap deal. So don't tell me what a below average GM like Vlade thinks now. He traded Cousins for 23 year old Buddy Hield then. And Luke has never stated preference for Ingram over Rusell anywhere. In fact he said DLo is on a shorter leash 'cos he is one of the select few players that can be a scorer as well as a creator cos he understand passing angles well.

Vlade is below average for sure but reports were Jim and Mitch included Russel in the trade but refused to include Ingram. Mitch may be a bit antiquated but he certainly isn't below average. Sounds like lip service from Luke to be honest. He may not have stated it outright but the benching and minutes imply a preference.


DLo has been getting minutes since we're done with 4 guard rotation. None of the reports said they included X or Y player. Recent one said Kings asked 2/3 and Lakers passed. DLo is showing unique potential as a combo guard in his second year. Where as it's hypothesis with our other young players like jump shots, FT shooting etc. Luke was all praise for DLo even today too but people who don't like him won't see that. To say he's second string on a contender is ridiculous. Who was our second string PG when we won championship?
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:05 am    Post subject:

Ingram needs to eat his Wheaties.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject:

Ingram has the most potential of anybody on the Lakers roster. Whether that potential will be realized, who knows. But he is the only one on the team right now who may be a franchise player. I think his ceiling is probably as the #2 guy on a championship contender. I don't think PG13 is a championship centerpiece, either. He's also a #2 on a championship contender so I wouldn't move Ingram for him unless the Lakers are trying and able to put together an immediate contender. Otherwise Ingram's developmental timeline and lower salary are more in line with what the Lakers need in a 3-5 year rebuild.

Zubac and Clarkson have the potential to be contributors to a winning team. Zubac as a starting big who develops into a 2 way player and a good passer. A poor man's Marc Gasol, perhaps. And Clarkson can be an elite 6th man. Nwaba could be useful down the road as a 3 and D bench guy if he can develop a jumper.

I don't think DLo is a winning player. Talented, but not somebody who is a starter on a championship team. I'd try aggressively to trade him. Nobody else on the roster is anything to write home about and I'd be more than open to including any of them in a trade to get a star player.
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fontana3d
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject:

cusu32000 wrote:
Ingram has the most potential of anybody on the Lakers roster. Whether that potential will be realized, who knows. But he is the only one on the team right now who may be a franchise player. I think his ceiling is probably as the #2 guy on a championship contender. I don't think PG13 is a championship centerpiece, either. He's also a #2 on a championship contender so I wouldn't move Ingram for him unless the Lakers are trying and able to put together an immediate contender. Otherwise Ingram's developmental timeline and lower salary are more in line with what the Lakers need in a 3-5 year rebuild.

Zubac and Clarkson have the potential to be contributors to a winning team. Zubac as a starting big who develops into a 2 way player and a good passer. A poor man's Marc Gasol, perhaps. And Clarkson can be an elite 6th man. Nwaba could be useful down the road as a 3 and D bench guy if he can develop a jumper.

I don't think DLo is a winning player. Talented, but not somebody who is a starter on a championship team. I'd try aggressively to trade him. Nobody else on the roster is anything to write home about and I'd be more than open to including any of them in a trade to get a star player.


The problem is that they won't get value back for Russell, and also teams will ask for Ingram and our top 3 pick before him anyways.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject:

Sic dunk by The Spider last night.

Ingram haters can bite his dust.
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Rek
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Wino wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Ingram has had an objectively bad year. These are the conclusions a lot of people will come to. If you think he's going to be a star, at this point, you're doing it mostly on faith.


Well he had a bad first half to the season but his play has turned up. Call it faith if you want but Im not gonna sit and say hes a bust because his first three months in the NBA werent great.


I didn't say he was a bust. Theres an awful lot of space between bust and star. That's where most of the league lives. He has definitely improved as the season has progressed, but it's fair to hold up his production to where other stars were when they were rookies. Its going to take a pretty big leap.


Thats a reasonable position but in my eyes if he doesn't become a star he is a bust so I do have high standards.


So since not everyone in the NBA is star, is it safe to say that 99% of the NBA are busts?


Well when the player is the highest pick in team history, is given Kobes locker and could of been traded for Cousins, yeah I expect alot.


Ummm, what pick was Magic and Worthy?


My bad okay so he doesnt need to be as good as magic but as good as cousins is now his floor.


Sorry, but, you don't understand how to measure the strength of a trade. If you're going to use the Boogie trade as your metric, then Ingram merely needs to end up equal or better than Buddy Hield, not Cousins. Being assigned to Kobe's locker is meaningless. Please point out a HoF former locker that has never been assigned to another player.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
tox wrote:
Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
Kid has way more potential than DLO. Sorry but that's why most execs will ask for Ingram over DLO in any trade. Cousins trade for example.
Good. I'd much rather they part with Ingram anyways. Way more uncertainty on where he ends up, Russell will at the least be a league average starting point.

League average for second pick in the draft?


He said "at the least". Floor for Ingram is role player if his shooting doesn't come along.

There's a reason why Vlade asked for Ingram over Russel and why Luke favors Ingram over Russel. Not sure if Russel would even be second string for a contending team.

And Ingram would? Ingram is literally one of the worst players in the league right now. Russell's floor is being a guy who you can win with as a 4th option or so. I know this because that's more or less who he is right now. I think very highly of Ingram's potential, but Russell has a higher floor because he's shown more.

Whatever though.


Russell showed more in a rookie season saddled with a coach that wasn't fond of him and the Kobe farewell tour. I like Ingram a lot and it would take a lot for me to move him, but these comments make me wonder what people are watching or if they're simply applying personal distaste for D'Lo to their evaluation.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject:

The knock on DLO will always be his lack of elite athleticism and speed. I personally think that DLO is really playing well since Lou has been gone, he just needed consistent minutes. He is big and long so that helps with the lack of elite athleticism.

BI OTOH has elite athleticism AND size for his position. His only weakness now is his strength which will improve with age.

I think DLO is very underrated- he is balling now and will only continue to improve.

And I think that people are too critical of BI at this stage. He is so young and thin. Yet, he can still play 40 minutes a game. He is a hard worker and in a few years he will just be a monster.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The knock on DLO will always be his lack of elite athleticism and speed. I personally think that DLO is really playing well since Lou has been gone, he just needed consistent minutes. He is big and long so that helps with the lack of elite athleticism.

BI OTOH has elite athleticism AND size for his position. His only weakness now is his strength which will improve with age.

I think DLO is very underrated- he is balling now and will only continue to improve.

And I think that people are too critical of BI at this stage. He is so young and thin. Yet, he can still play 40 minutes a game. He is a hard worker and in a few years he will just be a monster.


I tend to agree, seem like he has more gears than the lackadaisical one he shows through out games, he's got to have another speed cause you rarely see him run FAST, don't think I ever saw a player not switch gears for a fast break, hustle or defense? IMO, he has plenty of room to improve ceiling wise in every phase of the game, but when will he get it mentally to translate it to the speed of the game!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Wino wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Ingram has had an objectively bad year. These are the conclusions a lot of people will come to. If you think he's going to be a star, at this point, you're doing it mostly on faith.


Well he had a bad first half to the season but his play has turned up. Call it faith if you want but Im not gonna sit and say hes a bust because his first three months in the NBA werent great.


I didn't say he was a bust. Theres an awful lot of space between bust and star. That's where most of the league lives. He has definitely improved as the season has progressed, but it's fair to hold up his production to where other stars were when they were rookies. Its going to take a pretty big leap.


Thats a reasonable position but in my eyes if he doesn't become a star he is a bust so I do have high standards.


So since not everyone in the NBA is star, is it safe to say that 99% of the NBA are busts?


Well when the player is the highest pick in team history, is given Kobes locker and could of been traded for Cousins, yeah I expect alot.


Ummm, what pick was Magic and Worthy?


My bad okay so he doesnt need to be as good as magic but as good as cousins is now his floor.


Sorry, but, you don't understand how to measure the strength of a trade. If you're going to use the Boogie trade as your metric, then Ingram merely needs to end up equal or better than Buddy Hield, not Cousins. Being assigned to Kobe's locker is meaningless. Please point out a HoF former locker that has never been assigned to another player.


He needs to be as good as Cousins because Cousins was going to be a Laker and now hes not. Buddy was never going to be a laker so has no importance to this discussion.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Rek wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Wino wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
Ingram has had an objectively bad year. These are the conclusions a lot of people will come to. If you think he's going to be a star, at this point, you're doing it mostly on faith.


Well he had a bad first half to the season but his play has turned up. Call it faith if you want but Im not gonna sit and say hes a bust because his first three months in the NBA werent great.


I didn't say he was a bust. Theres an awful lot of space between bust and star. That's where most of the league lives. He has definitely improved as the season has progressed, but it's fair to hold up his production to where other stars were when they were rookies. Its going to take a pretty big leap.


Thats a reasonable position but in my eyes if he doesn't become a star he is a bust so I do have high standards.


So since not everyone in the NBA is star, is it safe to say that 99% of the NBA are busts?


Well when the player is the highest pick in team history, is given Kobes locker and could of been traded for Cousins, yeah I expect alot.


Ummm, what pick was Magic and Worthy?


My bad okay so he doesnt need to be as good as magic but as good as cousins is now his floor.


Sorry, but, you don't understand how to measure the strength of a trade. If you're going to use the Boogie trade as your metric, then Ingram merely needs to end up equal or better than Buddy Hield, not Cousins. Being assigned to Kobe's locker is meaningless. Please point out a HoF former locker that has never been assigned to another player.


He needs to be as good as Cousins because Cousins was going to be a Laker and now hes not. Buddy was never going to be a laker so has no importance to this discussion.


How's Cousins working out for the Pelicans? That guy is a mental loser. Doesn't matter what numbers he puts up. He'll find a way to crack under pressure and lose.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
So much projection. And I'm not talking prognostications of the future.
So true.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Ingram's offense is miles better now than it was 2 months ago. His season to date stats are no longer a valid measuring stick for his game; he's pretty much a 45 percent shooter who can be dangerous from beyond the 3 pt line. Problem is lazy people who don't pay attention to things like tangible month-on-month improvements when talking about a 19 year old kid competing in the NBA for the first time. Kid's got length, ability to alter shots, ability to play above the rim, and he's developing an aggressive streak. His biggest knock is he's got a weight disadvantage that he doesn't let stop him from competing. Doesn't sound like a crappy player to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject:

PG and KL both averaged below 8 points/game as a rookie. I'm hoping for hope
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Rek wrote:
Sorry, but, you don't understand how to measure the strength of a trade. If you're going to use the Boogie trade as your metric, then Ingram merely needs to end up equal or better than Buddy Hield, not Cousins. Being assigned to Kobe's locker is meaningless. Please point out a HoF former locker that has never been assigned to another player.


He needs to be as good as Cousins because Cousins was going to be a Laker and now hes not. Buddy was never going to be a laker so has no importance to this discussion.


Yeah, so according to your logic Kwame was as good as Gasol. Has to be true since he was traded for him. It keeps going, Gasol has to be as good as CP3 since he was almost traded for him. And the logic train continues.

It must be painful to admidt that it's really not possible to know what Ingram's ceiling is.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Rek wrote:
Sorry, but, you don't understand how to measure the strength of a trade. If you're going to use the Boogie trade as your metric, then Ingram merely needs to end up equal or better than Buddy Hield, not Cousins. Being assigned to Kobe's locker is meaningless. Please point out a HoF former locker that has never been assigned to another player.


He needs to be as good as Cousins because Cousins was going to be a Laker and now hes not. Buddy was never going to be a laker so has no importance to this discussion.


Yeah, so according to your logic Kwame was as good as Gasol. Has to be true since he was traded for him. It keeps going, Gasol has to be as good as CP3 since he was almost traded for him. And the logic train continues.

It must be painful to admidt that it's really not possible to know what Ingram's ceiling is.


I'm not pretending to know how good hes going to be?

I'm taking about value. If we refused to trade Kwame for Pau. Then yes Kwame would have to be good as Pau to make not trading worth it. We did trade for Paul but the league blocked us nothing we can do about that.

I've explained myself pretty clealy at this point and dont care to again. If you dont understand thats on you.
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