Will Any of the L.A. Lakers Young Players Emerge as a Star?

 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject: Will Any of the L.A. Lakers Young Players Emerge as a Star?

Hey all,

Here's my latest at Bleacher Report with an assist from @LakerFilmRoom aka GoldenThroat:

Will Any of the L.A. Lakers Young Players Emerge as a Star?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2697149-will-any-of-the-la-lakers-young-players-emerge-as-a-star

Cheers,

Eric
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject:

GT being dropped into this article!

Good source to use Eric!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject:

Nice article!

Solid comparative stats for DLO
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject:

They will, but we will have to wait 3-5 years for it to happen, so in other words we will likely trade them as the losing will make the FO lose patience.
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misterioso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Comparing DLO's statistics to a population comprised entirely of elite point guards creates the illusion that he belongs in that group. Add in a couple of more pedestrian point guards like Schroder, Nelson, Collison, Lawson, Jennings, and Holiday in their 2nd seasons at 36 minutes, DLO looks more average than elite when compared to a broader sample of his peers.

Code:

Player   FG%     2P   2PA   2P%    3P   3PA  3P%    FT   FTA  FT%    PTS   TRB  AST  OWS  DWS  WS    WS/48  OBPM  DBPM   BPM   VORP
Russell   40.4%  4.4  10.0  44.4%  2.7  7.8  35.4%  2.8  3.6  77.4%  19.9  4.8  6.3  0.3  0.8  1.1   0.040   1.4  -1.4   0.0   0.7
Schroder  42.7%  5.5  12.3  44.9%  1.2  3.5  35.1%  3.5  4.3  82.7%  18.2  3.9  7.5  1.1  1.4  2.5   0.080  -0.4  -2.1  -2.4  -0.2
Wall      42.3%  5.7  12.9  44.0%  0.0  0.6   7.1%  4.8  6.1  78.9%  16.2  4.5  8.0  1.7  1.9  3.5   0.071   0.5   0.1   0.6   1.6
Jennings  39.0%  4.4  10.3  42.2%  1.6  5.0  32.3%  3.3  4.1  80.9%  16.9  3.9  5.1  0.6  3.3  3.9   0.086   1.1   0.7   1.8   2.1
Collison  45.7%  5.4  11.4  47.9%  0.6  1.9  33.1%  3.1  3.5  87.1%  15.8  3.4  6.1  2.1  2.2  4.3   0.087   0.2  -0.9  -0.7   0.8
Nelson    48.3%  5.6  11.2  50.0%  1.4  3.3  42.4%  2.8  3.7  77.9%  18.3  3.6  6.1  3.5  1.4  4.9   0.132   3.6  -1.4   2.2   1.9
Irving    45.2%  6.6  13.9  47.4%  1.9  4.9  39.1%  4.4  5.1  85.5%  23.3  3.8  6.2  4.2  1.1  5.3   0.125   4.9  -1.6   3.3   2.8
Holiday   44.6%  4.5   9.6  47.0%  1.0  2.8  36.5%  2.1  2.6  82.3%  14.2  4.1  6.6  2.2  3.5  5.7   0.094   0.8   0.6   1.4   2.5
Westbrook 41.8%  5.9  13.5  43.8%  0.3  1.3  22.1%  4.2  5.4  78.0%  16.9  5.1  8.3  2.7  3.4  6.1   0.105   1.4   0.6   2.1   2.9
Lawson    50.3%  4.7   8.9  53.6%  1.2  2.9  40.4%  2.9  3.9  76.4%  16.0  3.6  6.5  5.1  1.6  6.7   0.153   3.1  -1.2   1.9   2.1
Harden    43.6%  3.0   5.9  51.4%  1.9  5.3  34.9%  4.8  5.6  84.3%  16.4  4.2  2.9  5.0  2.1  7.1   0.156   2.9  -0.6   2.3   2.4
Lillard   42.4%  4.1   9.2  44.7%  2.7  6.8  39.4%  4.5  5.2  87.1%  20.8  3.5  5.6  7.8  1.8  9.6   0.157   4.4  -1.7   2.7   3.5


I'm not saying DLO will never be a great player. John Wall's 2nd year compared to the player he is now is the result of Wall's hard work determination to fix his game.

At this point in time, I'm a lot higher on Clarkson, followed by Randle and Ingram. I need to see DLO do something more than shoot volume 3's.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

no one shows anything on D besides Ingram..so no they won't
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject:

No. "Stars" hit the ground running, you can tell right away. What did you think the first time you saw Kobe, or John Wall, or Anthony Davis ect? Jimmy Butler is a good example of a player who got better each year, and elevated his play to star level......but it doesn't happen too often, a rock is a rock.
1. DLO...asking if Russel is going to be a star, is like asking if he is going to become quick and more athletic. His numbers look great, but I just don't dig his game.
2. Randall. A couple of monsterous games does not a player maketh. Jekyl and Hyde, and on defense he hides lol. Nice numbers, but just a B+ player, I don't think his head is right, his price tag isn't going to be right, and just too screwy and indecisive near the hoop....but he could improve I guess.
3. Ingram. Horrible numbers! Horrible shooting! And he might just become a star! The kid is long, good BBIQ, good D, and unlike DLO, makes passes that make sense. We can already see Magic has lit a fire in him, so hopefully he can get there.
4. Clarksen. For today's money, he is a star! I've always liked his game, but his turnovers this season have worn me out. But he is a master at getting to the rim, being athletic, forcing the issue, and did make the effort to shoot threes better....hopefully he puts some arc on that shot this summer, and returns even better.
5. Zubac. A seven footer who plays low block? Shoots outside plus floaters? Blocks 4 shots quite often? Nice stroke at the FT line? Who does this guy think he is? Possible Gasol star type career.....

Parting shot. Have no idea how to fix the Lakers, but my gut tells me giving PG 40 mil is not going to work. Building/tanking through a mediocre draft will just yield a college team like we have now, we need vets and rentals and Euro players, I can only point to what Boston is doing, its perfect.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject:

misterioso wrote:
Comparing DLO's statistics to a population comprised entirely of elite point guards creates the illusion that he belongs in that group. Add in a couple of more pedestrian point guards like Schroder, Nelson, Collison, Lawson, Jennings, and Holiday in their 2nd seasons at 36 minutes, DLO looks more average than elite when compared to a broader sample of his peers.

Code:

Player   FG%     2P   2PA   2P%    3P   3PA  3P%    FT   FTA  FT%    PTS   TRB  AST  OWS  DWS  WS    WS/48  OBPM  DBPM   BPM   VORP
Russell   40.4%  4.4  10.0  44.4%  2.7  7.8  35.4%  2.8  3.6  77.4%  19.9  4.8  6.3  0.3  0.8  1.1   0.040   1.4  -1.4   0.0   0.7
Schroder  42.7%  5.5  12.3  44.9%  1.2  3.5  35.1%  3.5  4.3  82.7%  18.2  3.9  7.5  1.1  1.4  2.5   0.080  -0.4  -2.1  -2.4  -0.2
Wall      42.3%  5.7  12.9  44.0%  0.0  0.6   7.1%  4.8  6.1  78.9%  16.2  4.5  8.0  1.7  1.9  3.5   0.071   0.5   0.1   0.6   1.6
Jennings  39.0%  4.4  10.3  42.2%  1.6  5.0  32.3%  3.3  4.1  80.9%  16.9  3.9  5.1  0.6  3.3  3.9   0.086   1.1   0.7   1.8   2.1
Collison  45.7%  5.4  11.4  47.9%  0.6  1.9  33.1%  3.1  3.5  87.1%  15.8  3.4  6.1  2.1  2.2  4.3   0.087   0.2  -0.9  -0.7   0.8
Nelson    48.3%  5.6  11.2  50.0%  1.4  3.3  42.4%  2.8  3.7  77.9%  18.3  3.6  6.1  3.5  1.4  4.9   0.132   3.6  -1.4   2.2   1.9
Irving    45.2%  6.6  13.9  47.4%  1.9  4.9  39.1%  4.4  5.1  85.5%  23.3  3.8  6.2  4.2  1.1  5.3   0.125   4.9  -1.6   3.3   2.8
Holiday   44.6%  4.5   9.6  47.0%  1.0  2.8  36.5%  2.1  2.6  82.3%  14.2  4.1  6.6  2.2  3.5  5.7   0.094   0.8   0.6   1.4   2.5
Westbrook 41.8%  5.9  13.5  43.8%  0.3  1.3  22.1%  4.2  5.4  78.0%  16.9  5.1  8.3  2.7  3.4  6.1   0.105   1.4   0.6   2.1   2.9
Lawson    50.3%  4.7   8.9  53.6%  1.2  2.9  40.4%  2.9  3.9  76.4%  16.0  3.6  6.5  5.1  1.6  6.7   0.153   3.1  -1.2   1.9   2.1
Harden    43.6%  3.0   5.9  51.4%  1.9  5.3  34.9%  4.8  5.6  84.3%  16.4  4.2  2.9  5.0  2.1  7.1   0.156   2.9  -0.6   2.3   2.4
Lillard   42.4%  4.1   9.2  44.7%  2.7  6.8  39.4%  4.5  5.2  87.1%  20.8  3.5  5.6  7.8  1.8  9.6   0.157   4.4  -1.7   2.7   3.5


I'm not saying DLO will never be a great player. John Wall's 2nd year compared to the player he is now is the result of Wall's hard work determination to fix his game.

At this point in time, I'm a lot higher on Clarkson, followed by Randle and Ingram. I need to see DLO do something more than shoot volume 3's.



Nelson, Collison & Lawson = Age 23 season vs. Age 20 season.

Schroder = Didn't even average 20mpg, so per-36ing him is quite an upward adjustment, and he's significantly behind Russell (-2.4) on BPM.

Jennings = Russell outpaces Jennings in every category, including efficiency.

Holiday = The only good comp here. But on the other end, a guy like Mike Conley isn't included either. B-ball reference allows for 6 players to be compared in total, and Russell stacked up against some of the best at comparable ages, with Lillard tossed in there as the most recent "elite" guard that's been drafted, despite the age difference.

And having Russell 4th amongst our prospects behind Clarkson, Randle, & Ingram (in that order!) is crazy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"I'm not a fan of Russell's body language. He's talented but he needs to step into a leadership role," said a front office executive, also with an Eastern Conference franchise.


I agree with this but i hope this will improve as he matures.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject:

ZUBAC!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
misterioso wrote:
Comparing DLO's statistics to a population comprised entirely of elite point guards creates the illusion that he belongs in that group. Add in a couple of more pedestrian point guards like Schroder, Nelson, Collison, Lawson, Jennings, and Holiday in their 2nd seasons at 36 minutes, DLO looks more average than elite when compared to a broader sample of his peers.

Code:

Player   FG%     2P   2PA   2P%    3P   3PA  3P%    FT   FTA  FT%    PTS   TRB  AST  OWS  DWS  WS    WS/48  OBPM  DBPM   BPM   VORP
Russell   40.4%  4.4  10.0  44.4%  2.7  7.8  35.4%  2.8  3.6  77.4%  19.9  4.8  6.3  0.3  0.8  1.1   0.040   1.4  -1.4   0.0   0.7
Schroder  42.7%  5.5  12.3  44.9%  1.2  3.5  35.1%  3.5  4.3  82.7%  18.2  3.9  7.5  1.1  1.4  2.5   0.080  -0.4  -2.1  -2.4  -0.2
Wall      42.3%  5.7  12.9  44.0%  0.0  0.6   7.1%  4.8  6.1  78.9%  16.2  4.5  8.0  1.7  1.9  3.5   0.071   0.5   0.1   0.6   1.6
Jennings  39.0%  4.4  10.3  42.2%  1.6  5.0  32.3%  3.3  4.1  80.9%  16.9  3.9  5.1  0.6  3.3  3.9   0.086   1.1   0.7   1.8   2.1
Collison  45.7%  5.4  11.4  47.9%  0.6  1.9  33.1%  3.1  3.5  87.1%  15.8  3.4  6.1  2.1  2.2  4.3   0.087   0.2  -0.9  -0.7   0.8
Nelson    48.3%  5.6  11.2  50.0%  1.4  3.3  42.4%  2.8  3.7  77.9%  18.3  3.6  6.1  3.5  1.4  4.9   0.132   3.6  -1.4   2.2   1.9
Irving    45.2%  6.6  13.9  47.4%  1.9  4.9  39.1%  4.4  5.1  85.5%  23.3  3.8  6.2  4.2  1.1  5.3   0.125   4.9  -1.6   3.3   2.8
Holiday   44.6%  4.5   9.6  47.0%  1.0  2.8  36.5%  2.1  2.6  82.3%  14.2  4.1  6.6  2.2  3.5  5.7   0.094   0.8   0.6   1.4   2.5
Westbrook 41.8%  5.9  13.5  43.8%  0.3  1.3  22.1%  4.2  5.4  78.0%  16.9  5.1  8.3  2.7  3.4  6.1   0.105   1.4   0.6   2.1   2.9
Lawson    50.3%  4.7   8.9  53.6%  1.2  2.9  40.4%  2.9  3.9  76.4%  16.0  3.6  6.5  5.1  1.6  6.7   0.153   3.1  -1.2   1.9   2.1
Harden    43.6%  3.0   5.9  51.4%  1.9  5.3  34.9%  4.8  5.6  84.3%  16.4  4.2  2.9  5.0  2.1  7.1   0.156   2.9  -0.6   2.3   2.4
Lillard   42.4%  4.1   9.2  44.7%  2.7  6.8  39.4%  4.5  5.2  87.1%  20.8  3.5  5.6  7.8  1.8  9.6   0.157   4.4  -1.7   2.7   3.5
I'm not saying DLO will never be a great player. John Wall's 2nd year compared to the player he is now is the result of Wall's hard work determination to fix his game.

At this point in time, I'm a lot higher on Clarkson, followed by Randle and Ingram. I need to see DLO do something more than shoot volume 3's.
Nelson, Collison & Lawson = Age 23 season vs. Age 20 season.

Schroder = Didn't even average 20mpg, so per-36ing him is quite an upward adjustment, and he's significantly behind Russell (-2.4) on BPM.

Jennings = Russell outpaces Jennings in every category, including efficiency.

Holiday = The only good comp here. But on the other end, a guy like Mike Conley isn't included either. B-ball reference allows for 6 players to be compared in total, and Russell stacked up against some of the best at comparable ages, with Lillard tossed in there as the most recent "elite" guard that's been drafted, despite the age difference.

And having Russell 4th amongst our prospects behind Clarkson, Randle, & Ingram (in that order!) is crazy.
DLO has more of a chance to be a star (not a superstar) than Randle or JC because of the position he is playing and where he was drafted.

It has been stated and seen that superstars are seen early in a player's career - or at least the potential (as noted from players such as The Black Mamba to many other examples). DLO and Randle has shown very brief glimpses on offense, but none on defense. The important question is what salary will Randle be asking when his next contract is up since his agent will be asking for $30M a year in a $150M contract (which is a Rashard Lewis numbers and results)

Stat-wise, Ingram deserves the rating received. If Luke's words are accurate that BI is usually on the winning teams in scrimmages, it means that he does things to make his teams win which is important.

As Zack Lowe states, DLO and JC (along with Randle) are disastrous on defense. Since Luke wants to win the Spurs/Warriors way, instead of MDA's Rockets way, getting players that play D probably will a top priority of Magic and Rob
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject:

Eric,

Any scuttlebutt on the DLO benching?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject:

In these situations, fans will generally look for comparable players who became stars and ignore the comparable players who didn't become stars.

At this point, I see no reason to think any of them will become stars. Heck, Russell could become a 20 ppg. player without becoming a star simply because even a crappy team scores 100 points, and somebody needs to score them.

I am not writing off any of the young players for stardom nor am I penciling any of them in for stardom. I think any prognostications that they're destine for stardom is (1) fan optimism and (2) fan desperation because we need some stars.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Eric,

Any scuttlebutt on the DLO benching?


I'm curious to find out as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject:

Best chance to be a star (or even a solid NBA level starter or very good bench player)

Zubac
DLO

The surest things of the bunch: Zubac I think will develop organically with just more time and conditioning, DLO will really be helped if we get a great PG in the draft, and DLO slides over to a combo guard role, sort of like Klay Thompson.

Clarkson

The next closest to a sure thing is JC. Might be a 6th man, but everybody needs a good 6th man.

Randle
Ingram
Nance

Good guys, probably will be good in time, but maybe not necessarily with the Lakers. If they could all buy a jump-shot in the offseason, it would be money well spent.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject:

whoops
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Eric,

Any scuttlebutt on the DLO benching?
Seconded.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject:

Articles like these, and you wonder why Luke keeps changing rotations.

Nance with 8 minutes
TB barely gets PT
Russell on the bench
Clarkson playing PG...

Are we really trying to develop our youth?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Will Any of the L.A. Lakers Young Players Emerge as a Star?


Best chance to be a star for the Lakers?
Ingram

Best chance to be a star overall?
Dlo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject:

Did you see how DLO did one of those in-bounds where he does not touch the ball, in order to gain 3 seconds of bringing up court and then KICKED it out of bounds..

That one insignificant play pretty much summed-up the entire Lakers season this year!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Only Ingram has that potential just because of his length and work ethic. Zubac can develop into a solid starting center. Randle looks to me like a solid player off the bench for a championship team, unless the team around him has the right complementary pieces to cover his defensive shortcomings when he faces taller 4s. Clarkson can be a solid guard. I just don't see the superstar talent in Russell, which as the number 2 pick you hope to see. His body language isn't the greatest nor does he seem to have that will to win. I hope that image is because he's still trying to figure out his game, but unless there's a quantum leap in improvement next season, he may look like someone that'll be continually trade bait. I'd hate the Lakers to give up on a potential star player too early. Add Nance and the Lakers have 6 players that look to be solid NBA players. I guess that's a good start, but they need someone to really become an elite player.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
Only Ingram has that potential just because of his length and work ethic. Zubac can develop into a solid starting center. Randle looks to me like a solid player off the bench for a championship team, unless the team around him has the right complementary pieces to cover his defensive shortcomings when he faces taller 4s. Clarkson can be a solid guard. I just don't see the superstar talent in Russell, which as the number 2 pick you hope to see. His body language isn't the greatest nor does he seem to have that will to win. I hope that image is because he's still trying to figure out his game, but unless there's a quantum leap in improvement next season, he may look like someone that'll be continually trade bait. I'd hate the Lakers to give up on a potential star player too early. Add Nance and the Lakers have 6 players that look to be solid NBA players. I guess that's a good start, but they need someone to really become an elite player.

If it was just a bit more positive on Russell, I would completely agree with this.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:53 am    Post subject:

Unless you are gifted with a tremendous physical advantage like Shaq or Lebron, the difference is grit. It is an almost obsessive work ethic and perseverance that goes beyond what other players are willing to do. That work ethic also requires purposeful practice that is different than the way most players approach the game. There is an interesting, if not completely obvious book on this topic by Angela Lee Duckworth titled Grit. You can watch her Ted Talk here:

https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_grit_the_power_of_passion_and_perseverance

This makes me immediately think of Kobe who is the very definition of grit.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject:

They'll emerge as a star in other teams after Magic has traded the youth.
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